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It's now widely believed that he was probably born in June or July. I believe they've figured this out using descriptions of plants and such in the Bible, and, more importantly, by using astronomy to figure out where stars would have been at what time.
The fact, however, is that we don't know the specific date, and we never will. Christmas probably got the date that it did because it replaced some older pagan holidays, but it also has some beautiful symbolism. December 25th is not the darkest day of the year, but it's darn close, and ancient people could have easily mistaken that it was. Thus, from the time that we celebrate Christ's birth, things just get lighter and lighter.
I also do not believe he was born on Christmas. There are plenty of historical documentaries and biblical scholars to share, not just people looking to disprove Christ. Its pretty much a Pagan holiday in my book.
Easter- the Ressurection is the only one that matters lol [ not the date, but that it happened. The only "Christian " holiday we celebrate and not with the Easter bunny haha ]
Speculation will last forever, and the world will never be 100% certain.
December 25th was adopted into christianity/catholicism way back when. It was originally a Roman pagan holiday to worship the sun god (forget the name). Like ^^ said. Christianity/church of rome adopted that day for its symbolism. I had a professor who was priest who told me this. Brilliant man, on that insane/genius border.
I don't think he was actually born that day either - I think it was something to do with an ancient pagan holiday that the Catholic church decided to override with a Christian one. No biggie, IMO. I don't think that Thanksgiving is actually when the Indians and Pilgrims sat down for dinner either :p
Edit: Looks like the original holiday was the winter Solstice or birthday of Sol (sun). Kind of neat in that way - like a PP said, it starts getting lighter each day after his birthday then.
I am a christian and I also believe that Christmas day is not the actual birthday of Jesus, He wasnt born anytime that month. I researched this a little bit and found that 25th december was actually significant to worship of other gods and somehow it became the recognized day of Jesus's birth. As most of us know christmas is so commercial now that its not even about christianity, people who dont even believe in God celebrate christmas.
@KatyElle: Threadjack. Ohhhh!! A new avatar! Clockwork Orange... really?! I have to avoid eye-contact with this one....
Dec. 25th is just the day to recognize that he was born and to celebrate his immaculate conception and birth into the world. He was probably born in June/July but the month isn't so much what matters as the fact that it happened and we celebrate it at Christmas. :)
It's Halloween! This is my Bee Halloween costume haha! I'll switch back soon don't worry ;-)
I think that the date of Dec 25 came from Hippolytus in the second century, while the eastern Church followed the date of January 6. But in the fourth century, an archbishop, John Chrysostom, agreed that Dec 25 was the correct date based on Scripture and Jewish tradition. Since then, that's the date that's been observed.
Others lean toward spring/summer. This idea comes partly from the fact that when Jesus was born, shepherds were watching their sheep in the hills around Bethlehem. Luke tells us that an angel appeared to "some shepherds staying out in the fields [who were] keeping watch over their flock by night" (2:8).
Some scholars say that during the winter months, the sheep weren't kept in the fields at night, so it's more likely to be spring, during "lambing" season. However, others say that sheep in Bethlehem were kept outside year-round.
I'm not sure it will ever be resolved. I've always considered it as the day that symbolically and spiritually commemorates his birth.
@KatyElle: DId you have this one before? Someone did so I wasn't confused.
Anyways, I thought he was born sometime in April, so it just goes to show you that you never know and more than likely never will know. Though it would be pretty cool if Jesus and I shared a birthday in July. (That would totally trump my SO who shares a b-day with the president.)
I'm Christian and celebrate Christmas and I don't think Jesus was actually born then. As a PP mentioned, historical records analysis shows he was most likely born in the summer, but of course we'll probably never know. I don't think the date is as important as the symbolism. I love Christmas, and sure the date came from a pagan holiday (darkest day of the year, I think, or what they thought at the time) but the meaning isn't pagan now. We obviously don't know when Easter happened either since the date changes every year, and yes I know it relates to Passover but it's obviously not the same date as the original event. And I don't think there's a problem with gifts and Santa and decorating as long as I keep in mind the real meaning :)
I was under the impression Jesus was born in Sring due to the presence of a Lamb at his birth, I figured, like me Jesus was probably an Aries King of the star signs ;0 ), as i undderstood it Jesus the light of the worlds birth is celebrated just after the winter solctice to brighten that time of year with his light and also to ease the pagans into christianity by creating a religious holiday around thye same time they would have been celebrating anyway
I agree with PP, that we do not know the date and probably never will. It doesn't mean he was actually born on that specific date.
The "Christmas" holiday we celebrate today was originally a pagan holiday that was "merged" with the Christian God "Jesus" to bring a unification between pagans and Christians in hopes to make Christianity more appealing. The compromise came in us celebrating the same day but Christians celebrating Jesus as opposed to the Roman Lord "Saturnalia"... It's definitely not a holiday that lines up with Biblical Christianity, but most have no clue about that since it's not readily taught.
For dating the birth of Jesus though... If you follow scripture, when Zachariah would've been at the temple to be told about him & Elizabeth conceiving, and when Gabriel appeared to Mary, we get Jesus around the mid-end of September/beginning of October (by our calender)
Zachariah would have been serving in the temple in the early Summer after when Passover and the following feasts in (March/April) would've occured b/c of his order to serve in the temple (Abijah) which was the 8th rotation happening around the 10th week of the year (May/June) [Luke 1:5]
From there we "assume" that him and Elizabeth conceived upon his return and she stayed in seclusion for the 1st 5mth [Luke 1:23-24] ... Gabrial then appeared to Mary while Elizabeth was in her 6th month [Luke 1:26-27]
So if Elizabeth conceived in mid/late June and was in her 6th month when Mary conceived we can assume that Mary became pregnant with Jesus in December.
Count 9 months from then and we Jesus being born sometime between mid-end September and the beginning of October
=)
@amnystik: Do we know if Mary had a typical pregnancy though? Like a 9 month pregnancy? Her conception was pretty atypical, that's why I wonder.
@KatyElle: I would assume that it would be a normal pregnancy.. just like with John. That neither would've been pre-mature or have any troubling issues. Especially since this would've been something that caused others to take more notice, I would think it would be more prevelant to be mentioned. (of course that's just an assumption)
That's why I put a pretty large range.... September would be exactly 9mths, but October would be if Mary went over (like so many of us ladies do) lol
I was always under the impression that Jesus was born in summer. It seems modern scholars agree that he was born sometime between March and October.
The December 25th date is actually the birthdate of the Persian sun god Mithra/Mithras. Christmas Eve was originally the eve of the winter solstice celebration Shab-e Yalda, which was dedicated to Mithras. December 25th only became the "official" birthday of Jesus after Emperor Constantine declared it such in an effort to eclipse the winter solstice festival.
You know, I think more importantly though is that we weren't ever directed to celebrate Jesus' brith, but were directed to remember the feasts and recoginize his death & resurrection (which coincides with Passover, the feats of first fruits, and the other directed feasts.. not "Easter" which is a pagan originated holiday)
Since we weren't directed to celebrate Jesus' birth, knowing when it was exactly isn't all that important. But it would be nice to know since culturally we keep birthdays. (another pagan originated custom) lol. sheesh =/
i am of no religion, i'll be honest i celebrate christmas for modern and commericial reasons. you know big guy in a red suit, created by coke cola i believe.
saying that i find other peoples beliefs and opinions very interesting fascinating if you will , i enjoyed ready everyones posts on this thread ... i too was told jesus was born in summer by my very fmil :)
@stokieGal: you know big guy in a red suit, created by coke cola i believe. LOL
I have no idea really but my grandparents are very religious so I'll see what thye have to say because now I'm curious. tehe. This reminds me of my cat though, I don't know when she was born so I just tell her happy birthday on Halloween since that's when someone gave her to me! =)
He definitely wasn't born on Christmas. Both Christmas and Easter are originally Pagan holidays that were appropriated (historical fact before anyone jumps on me). I've read that most scholars believe he was born in July.
From what I have heard, he was born in the summer (I want to say August?) but the Christian Church aligned the celebration of his birth with the date of a pagan celebration (as is the case with most Christian holidays).
But I could be wrong. :P
I, too am a Christian and don't believe Jesus was born anywhere near December 25th, but I LOVE Christmas and don't mind celebating on a less-than-accurate date. :)
A good family friend is a Catholic priest who worked as the Pope's Latin expert in Vatican City for 40 years. He was actually featured on Bill Maher's "Religulous" movie as well... I'll have to ask him and get his opinion, as he doesn't even believe most of the things in the Bible.
Oh, just re-watched the part of "Religulous" where he was featured and said he doesn't get why we have Midnight Mass on 12/14 because Jesus could have been born on July 3rd. Haha
Also back then, early christians/judaic people didn't celebrate birthdays, so it was not of the importance that people place on it today. The hebrew calendar does not make it easy to keep a birthday too, your day would vary like by 11 days each year. You would also change your astrological sign frequently ;)
@hthesken: @GreenEyedMoon: I'm not a professed Christian. I have, however, made its history a major part of my studies during college when I was a history major. If you look at the astronomy and star placement at the time, yes, it's fairly clear that He was born in midsummer. The generally accepted reason that His birthday is celebrated on Dec. 25th is because that is the birthdate of Mithras, a hugely popular god during the first and second centuries, and from whom we have obtained many symbols that we associate with Christ and other holy people (eg. Halos). This same concept holds true for many other major Christian holidays. The reasoning was to supplant the god whom was being celebrated and to attract more "pagans" to the Christian faith. It generally worked.
@hthesken: Considering the fact that calendars come in a multitude of varieties and that historically its hard to get at dates because of problems with different calendar systems, missing data and what not, I don't think it matters. Christmas day is the day we celebrate Christ's birth. Whether or not the earth was in the exact position of orbit around the sun when Jesus does not matter to me.
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Ok Hive. I posted this on my FB last year and got alot of debates and upset people. I want to know when do you think Jesus was born. Christmas? I am a Christian. I am also a firm believer that Jesus was NOT born on Christmas. I've asked my very religious grandparents, who cannot tell me when his birthday is. I'm thinking about asking my pastor on Sunday. So what do you ladies think??