Weddingbee boards

Anyways.

The nearby puppy is a tri-color female and the last one left out of a litter of 4.  The breeder thinks it's because the other three had white on their faces but could also be because she's the runt.  Shots, worming, dewclaws have been done.  She's only 1 hour/50 miles away.  Her dogs are bred pretty much just for companionship but she said she has had some people go onto show some of them and one lady has gotten two pairs to work her bulls.  She has not had her breeding dogs' hips or eyes checked and does not have a Breeders Contract.  She does have the great-grandma on site we could meet though with is something.  The mother is small - only 20 lbs - and the sire just barely meets the standard at 25-27 lbs.  I kind of like the idea of a smaller Corgi but I don't love that they don't meet the breed standard.  This pup is currently 9 weeks but I'll be spending the first week of March with my mom and she's not up to having dogs around right now so the breeder would keep her until I get back.  That would put her at 11 weeks, which is awesome.  She's asking $400 registered or $300 without papers.  (She would not be bred so competing in AKC herding trials is the only reason I can think of maybe wanted her papered but that's unlikely so we'd probably go without.)    

Then we figured we should check with some family friends before going to see her.  They have a cattle ranch, use corgis and have a litter every so often.  Just so happens that they have a litter of 7 right now that's 6 weeks old!  (3 tri-colors and 4 reds, males and females of each color)

So now the pro/cons begin.  The M's live 4 hours/200 miles away and while they're trusted family friends, we don't know what kind of breeders they are.  Just that they currently have 3 generations of working Corgis, which makes it sound like they're healthy and age well.  No idea if the parents have had their hips or eyes checked.  The pups have their first shots, dew claws, etc. done and are registered.  She sells them for $450 but would give us one for $400.  Oh, and she hasn't advertised them yet so we could likely have 1st or 2nd pick of the litter.  However, we may just have to pick the pup solely though pictures and their recommendation.  That's a long ways to go just to meet them without being able to bring one home.  They'd be ready to go March 11 which I think puts them at 9 weeks.

I think I'm leaning towards one of the M's dogs but we'll probably still go meet the close one.  Oh, and I'll swing by the shelter when I'm in town tomorrow, just in case, but odds aren't great.  

What would you do?  

And for gratuitous cuteness: a picture of one of the lone puppy's sisters.  

I don't have any pictures of the M pups yet but they'll hopefully get emailed to us tonight.  I'll post them when they do.  ;-)  

I should also add that this would be my first non-shelter dog since I was probably 8 years old.  The guilt over not rescuing one is definitely there but I have my reasons (all of which weren't listed here) so I'm trying to manage it.  

@KatNYC2011:  I could have sworn I looked on there and there was nothing!  Crazy.  I'll definitely look into those guys.  

@Everyone with shelter votes: I'm not surprised there are so many votes are for a shelter dog, mine usually is too, but I maybe should have emphasized a little more that we don't want "just" a pet.  This dog would ideally be a working dog in addition to being a companion.  It's kind of like wanting to barrel race.  All Quarter Horses are pretty fast so you could just rescue a good one and hope they're fast enough, but your odds of doing well are significantly better if you get one with racing bloodlines.  It's a little different with the dogs since it's instinct but the ability to work rodeo stock is definitely not something all herding dogs have.  That said, if the dog can't do it we'll still love it and keep it but we'd like the best chance possible.  

I've also learned that working dog breeders operate differently from show breeders.  There's definitely some overlap but not all of it does.  While ideally I would like to see the parents tested, at the M's we'll be able to see 3 generations back and how healthy they are.  

I should also note, we didn't have time for an indepth conversation with the M's.  We have a lot more questions, like @KatNYC2011: said about spay/neuter contracts, health tests etc.  I don't know for sure what they do and don't do at this point.

@JillBill:  That exact principle has been killing me.  And it could be my area or just the fact the $1000 Corgis around here go word of mouth but the kennels I could find with websites didn't look particularly more reputable than the $400 ones with the exception of OFA and PRA tests.  It's really strange because I've researched other breeds in my area and always saw a clear delineation between "Ohh!  I want one of their dogs!" and "Eh....Not great practices.  I'd rather not support you."  

@CorgiTales - Well of course!  ;-)  And I was thinking last night that I would definitely have to pick your brain for Corgi Tips.  

@KatNYC2011:  There's actually one at the end of June that's *only* 6 hours away that I'm hoping to go to!  Do you mean working dogs with OFA/PRA ratings and have spay/neuter contracts?  Because I don't think working lines get any more "real" than the M's.  Their dogs are excellent working stock, I just don't know if they follow all How To Be A Reputable Breeder Guidelines.  I'm hoping we'll learn more about that this weekend.

Also, we used this list  for our initial contact with the loner pup's breeder.  Any other ones we're missing if we follow up and see the dog in person? 

@KatNYC2011:  Thank you so much!  That's a great link and I really appreciate all of your advice.  Like I said, this breeder thing is new to me and while I'm trying to be educated about it the puppy fever and heartstrings keep getting in the way.  :-)  

I don't think I could go for the lone pup.  That was an impulse (so damn cute!) and now reality is catching up.  (That article also did a great job of really pointing out how many areas she was lacking in.)

As for the FF litter, the fact they didn't have homes lined up already really surprised me.  I definitely plan on asking about that.  I know they own both the sire and the dam and that this is usually a no-no but I'll definitely be asking why they paired those two.  Maybe they have a good reason.  

Do you know why good breeders don't usually repeat a breeding?  I had just accepted this as the right thing to do and only recently thought about it.  In horses if you find a good match it's often repeated - even half-siblings are more highly valued because of the affiliation to a champion.  It's usually a good thing when it's discovered that his genes really complement hers even if it doesn't guarantee an outcome.  Do you know why this isn't the case with dogs?

@KatNYC2011:  That sounds reasonable.  And I forgot about the smaller window for a bitch.  Hmmm...  Maybe google can tell me.  With mares you could pretty easily have a solid 10 years of breeding soundness even after giving her a couple years to prove herself.  That's a lot of babies (more than the current market needs!) even with taking years off.  

@smiley3:  Good luck!  They are entirely too cute for their own good!  :-)

Puppy pictures have arrived!  Here are the available pups from the M litter.  

First are the two females: 

And the males:

Enjoy the cuteness.  ;-)

Well, we went and saw the Lone Pup just in case and fortunately my husband and I were on the same page and there's no contest.  The puppy was absolutely adorable, outgoing, the right energy level, really neat coloring and everything but we just couldn't support that breeder.  There were just way too many "wrong" answers.  (Her coloring was so neat.  She's tri-color but the tan is so pale she just looks black and white!  Would have been great icing...)

So we're going to make a trip up on Tues/Wed to meet the working dogs.  I feel a lot better about them after talking to the wife.  She has her head on squarely and wants to do the right thing.  

Oh, and @KatNYC2011:, the reason she didn't already have home lined up for this litter is because it was an oops.  The husband, who is wonderful but not the brains of the operation, was supposed to be watching them and messed up.  So while everything's not perfect, it's worth the drive up to meet them.  And we get the pick of the litter!  When I told my mom she almost started crying she was so happy for us! lol (She knows what we went through with my last dog and getting a non-abused pup is probably just what I need.)  

@caitlanc: As a lab owner who spent $1000+ on a dog for a specific reason (duck hunting), I can assure you that purchasing a dog from a long line of workers is invaluable. I can honestly say the dogs I see work hardest and smartest are almost always from breeders who train and work their own dogs. Just a thought. 

@bree72:  Thanks!  It's good to hear that.  While I try to learn as much as possible before hand this is new to me with the exception of my dog growing up.  She was a Border Collie from our friends' working dogs and she's hands down the best dog I've ever had even though we didn't herd with her.  

@Miss Apricot:  I know that's the case with some breeders but it's not something all responsible ones do.  Honestly, they know the dogs the best and I know myself the best.  They can ask as many questions as they want and we can offer up as much info as we can but they're still not going to get our full story.  I much prefer working WITH the breeder to pick out a pup.  I wouldn't be comfortable with them telling me this is your pup.  Sometimes there are unseen connections at work.  

Well, we picked one!  We went to see the litter and were really happy with their set up and the puppies' relatives.  We were able to quickly narrow it down to three: the two tri's and the fawn in the 3rd picture.  The fawn wasn't as brave and the female tri was just a little more assertive.  The tri-colored male was super playful with the other pups but calmed down quickly when humans were holding him.  He also showed great herding instincts while playing with their 7 year old.  Now we just have to come up with a name!

He's so cute!! I love his coloring.