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I know vaccinations are a heated topic on weddingee, but for me it gets bit blurry when vaccines like the flu shot at brought into the debate. I personally dont see that as an essential for myself or my kids. When I think of vaccines given to kids I think of life threatening diseases like Polio, Whooping cough, tetanus, meningitis etc, But I dont consider the flu vaccine to be essential. I'm on the fence about chickenpox.
Which vaccines are essential in your opinion?
@bells: I agree with you too. The flu vaccination will only help prevent certain strains, which isn't good enough for me.
To me, essential vaccines include the following (I admit, I may be inadvertantly missing one or two):
I'll admit, I'm not sold on either chicken pox (varicella) or HPV - this is likely due to the fact that these are new vaccines that were not even in existance when I was being vaccinated as a child. I lean towards allowing my child to catch chicken pox as a kid and if they don't, then vaccinating since it is much more severe if caught as an adult.
I don't even put the annual flu shot on the same level at all what-so-ever as vaccines like MMR, HiB, polio, etc. They aren't even comperable, IMO. And no, I do not view it ass essential unless one belongs to a high risk group.
I agree with you 100% FutureKMM.
I am biased because I am getting my PhD studying hep B which causes liver cancer... Although it's not as prevalent in the US, it's pretty terrible in Asia/Africa. Usually by the time you realize it has caused cancer you don't have much longer to live. So IMO def get your Hep B vaccination.
Our daycare requires proof of all vaccines in order to be enrolled, so Addie is completely up to date. She will also receive the flu shot this year (she didn't last year because we had a private nanny) and the chicken pox vaccine, when it's time. Even if it wasn't required, I would still do the chicken pox vaccine, but I might be inclined to skip the flu vaccine.
I plan on following my pediatrician's recommendations, so that will probably include all vaccines, including the one for chicken pox (can cause major health issues if you get it later in life) and eventually HPV. I know the HPV vaccine is still new, but when I think about the consequences of a daughter of mine getting HPV (which is really easy to contract through sexual activity and essentially symptomless) it terrifies me. I was too late to get the HPV vaccine myself, but any child of mine will be getting it when their time comes.
I was actually surprised to see on the CDC website that they now recommend that everyone over the age of 6 months get a yearly flu shot. I've never had one in my life, although I will be getting one this year b/c I'm pregnant. I'm planning on asking my doctor about it, since every year does seem a bit excessive for a healthy adult.
I agree with FutureKMM.
As for the chicken pox, I remember having them as a child. It was never life threatening, but definitely one of the most uncomfortable illnesses I had as a kid. I might want to spare my children that experience.
HPV, maybe, if more research will be done on it by then. I have HPV, one of the high risk strains, and I have had years of abnormal paps, biopsies, and even surgery because of it.
The HPV vaccine only covers 4 strains of HPV. Not saying that is nothing, but that only covers about 70% of HPV strains that cause cervical cancer. I think people think it's a catch-all, but it's not. I'm not sure about that one. I also don't get the flu vaccine...ever...even H1N1 and I was an at risk group. I'm on the fence about chicken pox.
All of them are essential in my mind. Chicken pox can be devastating to both child and adults around that child who may get it, or to pregnant women who get chicken pox while pregnant. The flu pandemic in the 20s killed thousands and thousands of people, and still kills young kids and elderly people every year. Vaccines aren't just about keeping your kids healthy, but keeping the people around them healthy as well
This.
The flu shot is definetly not an essential for me. Many forget it only protects 2 strands when there is many more every season. Also new moms on the fence about it need to think about the fact that at least one year until they are 4, a baby will need 2 doses of the flu vaccine. That is a lot for me even if it is coming my pediatrician and CDC.
@BackyardLoveBird: I'd rather be protected against 70% of HPV than none.
I think everything people have mentioned so far plus:
- chickenpox (can come back as shingles later if you have it when you're a kid)
- HPV (no brainer for me - decreased risk of cervical cancer? almost everyone has it? YES PLEASE.)
I never get a flu shot because for my age group we're more likely to get flu but less likely to have a bad outcome. For my kids, I would probably get one for them up to age 12, especially any "emergency" vaccines like H1N1 a couple years back. For myself though, no.
My kids had the chickenpox vaccine when it was brand-new and had just been introduced. They are now grown up and it's been effective so far. I would totally recommend it. Chicken pox can be a dangerous illness-one of the complications is um, death and infection. No thanks to that.
And they had all the other standard ones listed above but I think there was also a vaccination against a certain kind of pneumonia that the pediatrician also recommended. And my son who had Type II Diabetes has to have a flu shot every year.
I don't think you can ever be too careful.
@skibobrown: My husband just told me the other day that he heard Govenor Brown is planning on reintroducing a version of state law A.B. 16 (which was first introduced in 2006 and then later withdrawn). The original bill ordered public schools to include the HPV vaccine for girls sixth grade and older as part of the regularly required vaccines. According to NPR, Govenor Brown might be reintroducing the bill as early as next year. So by the time our kids get to that age, it might very well be required in schools anyway.
@Jillbean: "almost everyone has it?"
Only around 50% of sexually active adults ever contract HPV (and not all of those people even have the strains that the HPV vaccine covers). I wouldn't consider that to be "almost everyone".
IMO, there are many other things one can do to protect themselves from ALL strains of HPV (condom use, STD tests before having unprotected sex with a new partner, etc) that render the vaccine potentially unnecessary.
@Jillbean: I posted this on the other post, but I had chicken pox as a young kid, and then got shingles at 24. I had cervical cancer at 20, which was not HPV, but as soon as the vaccine came out, I got it, because having had cervical cancer before, I was at a higher risk of getting it again if I contracted HPV. My 20s have just been crazy on my body...
@Mrs.KMM: yes, there are ways to protect yourself, but you are forgetting a very important fact- teenagers don't typically follow the rules. Even the smartest ones make mistakes, and if not a mistake what if they get assaulted? I think its stupid to think that just because you can use condoms means you shouldn't get the vaccine- it is just like teaching abstinence and expecting kids not to get pregnant- you need to cover all your bases
@BackyardLoveBird: @Mrs.KMM: According to the CDC website, the HPV vaccine also protects against 90% of cases of genital warts, in addition to cervical cancer, abnormal cells, and genital growths.
My personal feelings on the HPV vaccine is that it doesn't give people a free chance to stop practicing safe sex. Regardless of being vaccinated against HPV, my child needs to know how to protect herself against other STDs/STIs and unwanted pregnancy. However, there are certain situations where she might be exposed that I can't protect my child from, namely sexual assault or a cheating partner.
I plan to vaccinate my kids, but not 100% by the CDC schedule.
I'm going to postpone Hep A & Hep B until they are grade-school age, probably skip flu and chickenpox. HPV vaccine, yes my kids will get it.
I also don't want them to get more than a few vaccines at once, I'd rather pay for more office visits to space them out. (My veternarian doesn't even give more than 3 vaccines at a time.)
@Mrs.KMM: I completely agree.
As a side note, my daughter had all her immunizations when she was 1 yr old, including chicken pox. Guess what she got 2 months later? Chicken pox.
@SweetVanity: That's very common-my friend's daughter got it too after her vaccination. Sometimes it doesn't take completely. Still better to have the disease with some immunization than without any at all.
@Mrs.KMM: Condoms don't prevent HPV. It's passed on by skin to skin contact.
@PutABirdOnIt: Oh I agree! I was just commenting on the fact that it isn't always effective. But then no vaccine is a 100% guarantee in my opinion. I've never had chicken pox so the doc said if I dont' get it now, I'm probably never going to and I didn't, so yay!
@PutABirdOnIt: They don't 100% protect you but even the CDC's websites indicates that condom use is an effective way to lower one's risk for HPV.
@agerard23: and @Mrs. Spring: I don't agree with living my life pondering and planning for the "what ifs" like what if I get sexually assulted. If you want to live your life that way, IMO you should also put any future daughters on birth control the minute they become fertile because they may be sexually assulted and get pregnant.
@Mrs.KMM: its not living for the what ifs, it is being prepared for the reality of life- the reality is my children may make a dumb decision and have a one night stand without a condom. Why would I want them to get HPV and possibly cervical cancer down the line from that? Obviously I plan to teach them better, but everyone makes mistakes and I'd rather them be protected if they do make a mistake.
I feel that the flu vaccine is not always essential, just helpful. Like the motorized walkways at the airport. Sure, I could walk in the middle aisle, but damn that's a long ways to walk.
@Mrs.KMM: I am a little confused by your position. Presumably your child has a much lower chance of contracting polio than being sexually assaulted (or getting HPV), yet you planned for that possibility. Why is HPV different? Let's remember that no method is 100% effective; vaccines fail a certain amount of the time and so do condoms.
I do understand that other people have different feelings on the HPV vax because it protects against an STD, which complicates the matter with sex and behavior questions. To each their own, but the statistics on sexual assault and infidelity are enough to convince me that both of those situations are a very real danger; to me it's not just about protecting against complications from unsafe sex, but about protecting my child as much as possible from situations out of her control.
Oh, I also feel that HPV is in fact a necessity for my children. Firstly, because even if they use condoms, they may still contract HPV. Secondly, because as a teen I was NEVER going to use a dental dam and never knew a kid who did. And considering the sharp increase in oralpharyngeal cancers from HPV (due to oral sex), I will be vaccinating my kids.
http://health.yahoo.net/news/s/ap/us_med_healthbeat_oral_cancer
@Mrs. Spring: They have a much lower chance of contracting polio BECAUSE people vaccinate and create herd immunity. Without that, their chances would be much higher.
I do agree that the fact that HPV is a sexually transmitted disease versus an infectious disease plays into my opposition. I know being vaccinated doesn't give a child free-reign to have unprotected sex but I feel it is more important to instill good values and practices and understanding of the risks of unprotected sex with my children than to give them a shot that doesn't even protect them against all forms of HPV.
The fact that there are certain behaviors that put you more at risk for HPV where there are not really certain behaviors that put you more at risk for polio definitely factors into my thoughts.
@Mrs.KMM: Definitely, I understand that sex and behavior questions play a bigger part in the HPV discussion than in others.
I would disagree that behavioral choices don't play into increasing risk of contracting polio, though. Certainly behaviors like traveling, volunteering, or working in countries with a polio epidemic increase your likelihood of contracting a disease that is nonexistant here. So you can increase your risk of the disease by behavior and lifestyle choices (ETA: just like with HPV).
@abbyful: I may be incorrect, but I don't think condoms protect against HPV. I also don't think there is really a way to tell if a man has it. I am sure there will be a test created eventually, but there really isn't much you can do aside from just not have sex.
@Mrs. Spring: You don't have to travel anywhere to contract polio though. A person could never leave the US their entire lives and still contract polio from another individual who has travelled to polio endemic regions. Besides being a hermit, there really aren't behavior and lifestyle choices that keep one from coming in contact with other people who may travel.
@Mrs.KMM: True but that possiblity (never leaving the country and still contracting the disease) is, in my mind, the same as never having unprotected sex (or never having sex at all) and contracting HPV through a sexual assault. The difference is, the risk of contracting polio the way described above is virtually non-existant at this point, but the chances of being sexually assaulted and contracting HPV are much higher and much more realistic (some statistics say as high as 1 in 6 women will be sexually assaulted in her lifetime). You plan against the (very unlikelyhood) chance your child would contract polio through no fault of their own, but you won't plan against the (much higher) possibility that your child contract HPV through no chance of their own?
To be honest, I'm not even passionate about this particular subject; I've just never understood the counter-argument to my views. And since you're available and willing to have this discussion with me, KMM... :) I hope we're not getting too off-topic, though. Hopefully no one minds? If anyone does, we can move this to a new thread.
@Mrs. Spring: I don't mind! :)
Honestly - I think one of the biggest things for me is the difference between it being for a sexually transmitted disease versus an infectious disease. I am definitely not at the point where I am 100% opposed to it by any means. As I said in my first post though, I'm just still on the fence about it and not totally sold on its true benefits.
I'm a long way from having children anywhere near the age to receive the HPV vaccine considering that DH and I don't even plan to TTC for another 3 years and kids don't get the HPV vaccine until age 11 or 12. By that point in time there will be a lot more in the way of data on adverse events as well as rates of HPV infections in vaccinated versus unvaccinated individuals and potentially (since it takes so long beyond an intial infection for it to typically develop) some intial data on if we are truely seeing decreases in cervical cancer in vaccinated individuals.
I will add that I see nothing wrong with people who choose to give their children (or themselves) the HPV vaccine at this time. I just don't view it as "essential" (which was the point behind this thread). Since it isn't essential (IMO), that means it is simply a personal choice either way.
On the flip side, since I view vaccines like MMR, HiB, etc as "essential", I do take issue with people choosing not to vaccinate against those things (unless allergies or immuno-suppression prevents them from medically being able to).
Just wanted to make sure you understood that I am not against the HPV vaccine itself or those who get it - I simply don't view it as "essential".
@Mrs.KMM: Gotcha. :) Thanks for the discussion!
ETA: I also don't hold anything against people who don't vax on religious, moral, or medical grounds. I was just interested in hearing the views from the other side.
@Mrs. Spring: @Mrs.KMM: I just wanted to jump in here... I love to see this type (pleasant, nice, discussion based without being catty) of conversation on the boards.
I completely understand all of the issues that surround the HPV vaccine, since HPV stems from some sort of sexual contact. However, to me, I look at the vaccine as a way to help avoid cervical cancer. It is not 100% pefect, but if someone offered me a safe vaccine that would prevent 90% of breast cancers, or 90% of colon cancer or any other cancer, I would JUMP on that. And I think that many, many people would. So I personally think that the HPV vaccine and teaching children safe sex are two very different things. Teaching children about safe sex is INCREDIBLY important. And I'm not sure that I would even fully explain to a child on the younger end of the age spectrum what the vaccine was for. The younger children don't quite understand (or care) what the polio vaccine or MMR vaccine is for-- they just get it. So I would probably consider vacinating my daughter at a young age, and save the safe sex talk for when it would be age appropriate. To me, there's no reason NOT to help prevent her from cancer, REGARDLESS of what her sexual choices might be in the future.
Also, I think that STDs are becoming more and more common. My or your daughter may one day find an incredible man with whom she wants to spend the rest of her life, and chances are, he might have an STD. They will not use protection forever, so I think that HPV vaccine could be crucial in instances like this. To me, the HPV vaccine shouldn't be depended upon to fully protect anyone from STDs-- only as an aid to preventing diseases that can cause cancer!
@Lozza: @agerard23: Agree, all vaccines are essential to me. HPV is definitely an essential to me (why NOT take a vaccine that can prevent cancer? I got it and both FI and I have only had each other as sexual partner!) I personally get flu shots because again, why not? We are way over due for a pandemic flu (like the Spanish flu) so why no protect myself?
Being a organic chemist with years of working for pharmaceutical companies, the technology used to make vaccines is literally the most natural type of therapy out there. There are extremely few proven cases of serious side effects from vaccines. And the study every one quotes about vaccines causing autism in children? Yeah, that article was revoked for faking data. The doctor responsible has since been stripped of his medical license. http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/autism.vaccines/index.html
What is more dangerous to me? How much we abuse antibiotics today. You have a much higher chance of getting adverse side effects from prescription drugs taken if your child contracts these diseases that you choose not to vaccinate them against!
To sum it up, my favorite video on the subject: http://youtu.be/RfdZTZQvuCo
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