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I've voiced on here my opinion about religion. FI and I are agnostic at best. We just don't know if the possibility of god or heaven or any of it is really plausible.
We've shared these views with friends during conversations. Some agree with us, some can't understand how we feel this way. Our more religious friends can't seem to help themselves but try to shove their churches, religion, power of prayer, etc in our faces. We don't try to harp on the fact that the likelihood of what they believe in is probably not super likely, but they can't seem to stop. Some examples:
1. A friend knows we're not religious and are not having any type of religious aspects in our ceremony. Still, she keeps emailing me, texting me, or telling me about cute ideas she seen. Such as using an old family Bible with our rings tied to it for someone to carry down the aisle. Or, instead of a guest book, have a bible there for friends and family to underline passages in. What??
2. Our dog has hip displaysia and all of our famiy and friends know it's really hard for me. One day in particular on FB I was just making a comment about how much I love our dog and how it makes me sad to see him in pain. A friend says "you shouldn't ever under estimate the power of prayer!" I responded, but didn't acknowledge the prayer part of his comment and again he said "i'm serious, I always turn to god in hard times". I appreciate the thought, but is god or prayer going to keep my dog from limping? Is it going to replace his hips without surgery or pain?
3. Today the same friend from #2 texts me out of the blue with a link. Nothing to preface this link. So I tapped it and it took me to a live feed of their churches sunday service. I texted him like "what is up with that link?" and he said "it's a live feed from our church. I just thought maybe you would iike it"
I understand the effort. Really, I do. But we've made our views clear. It makes me feel like they think we/I are/am some godless, directionless lepers who need to try to "see the light". Why can't they just let us believe what we want to, the way we do for them? I'm not passing along articles, scientific research, or other propoganda about how there likely is no heaven or hell or any afterlife?
Does anyone else get this?
Okay, when I started this post it was in NWR. How did it end up in beehive?? Sorry...
I just don't try to reason with the religious. It's not a personal thing, and I have plenty of friends who believe in God/Jesus and aren't shy about sharing it. I've never found any point in trying to reason with them (I'm in the "still looking for a faith" category), so my choice is to just smile and thank them for the well wishes. Annoying, but that's about all you can do.
Being someone who grew up "in the church" and who would now consider myself agnostic, it's a little easier for me to swallow because I understand where they are coming from.
Many people who are very religious view you and I as lost and assume that it's their duty to "save" us. I'm not justifying it as I feel the same way as you do, but I follow the same behavior as KatyElle.
It's so irritating, but stay firm in what you believe and blow it off.
And I do understand that POV, no matter how annoying it is. It's just...I guess I can't seem to understand where they "get off" so to speak, becasue I don't try to force anything on them. I'm not super confrontation, so rarely do I say anything back. But I do wish they'd stop.
Some people just have to try and convert others to their beliefs. One of my coworkers is my mom's age and she will use her mom voice and try to badger others into agreeing with her. I have another friend who I usually steer clear of in election years. If she finds someone who doesn't agree with her politics, she just cannot let it go.
Not sure what you can do about it but asking people to respect your beliefs. If they do not, start distancing yourself.
Ugh, how exhausting! Like pp have said, it sounds like your friends are true believers and with that belief comes a urge to get everyone to believe what they believe. I know its annoying - believe me, but I really think the best you can do is ignore them. If you do get a chance to talk candidly with your friends that are doing this, I would suggest being completely honest with them and tell them it bothers you that they keep badgering you with religious stuff. Say it affecting the friendship and while you know they are doing it because they love you, you want them to stop. If they don't, distance yourself from them. They need to respect your wishes.
I had never really experienced what you are talking about until recently. I am basically agnostic although I grew up in a very strict religious household. I went to catholic school for 13 years and attended church ever sunday until I went off to college. My mom cant grasp the fact that I have stopped going to church and that I don't want to get married in a church. She keeps posting bible verses on my facebook and emailing me different relgious pinterest pins. I haven't said anything yet but it is really making me upset and is making me bitter about even talking to her about wedding plans. Like PPs have said, I think people feel as though they can "save" or "convert" people. I wish people would just take a step back and realize how pushy they are being. If anything I feel it pushes me farther away from ever stepping foot in another church!
My FI and I are both religious, but I wasn't always. My personal response towards you would be a "the door is open" As in, I can give you support on your decisions, but would say that if you are ever curious about my religion (I'm Lutheran), that I am available to talk. Your friend who sent you the live feed of Sunday Services was too pushy.
Just ignore them :) Or if some particular person is persistent and doesn't get the hint, just have an adult conversation.
Its hard to be left alone in such a connected world! if you are outspoken in social media and project that you have a problem or are suffering , don't be shocked if someone shares with you stuff like "prayer" or whatever other things people say that irritate youi- it is their natural reaction.
The bigger the deal you make it to your self the more power you give. it.
I don't know if I would be friends for very long with people who have trouble believing that I can make my own decisions.
I have many friends who are religious - of all religions, not just Christianity. I have attended many religious celebrations with them, and often celebrate religious milestones (e.g. the baptism of their children) out of love for them. But I remain an atheist, and all of my friends know that. Not one of them has ever tried to convert me - they have tried to include me, yes (celebrations, etc), but never to convert me. If they had, I would be very weary of the friendship.
I was raised with church and prayer as an important part of our routine. Watching my dad pray had a big impact on me spiritually and I appreciate the influence. Equally as strong is the memory of questioning something we were told in Sunday School and the aggresive, punitive reaction of a family friend. I'm still working out my own beliefs and I get frustrated with the message that if you believe yourself a Christian, you've got to convert everyone else. There are so many levels to what's been driving that message all these years. In this huge universe, how any one person can be convinced they've got it all figured out is beyond me.
I was 'raised' as a christian and went to church every Sunday with my parents and siblings.
I'd say when I was about 12ish, I started questioning religion. By the time I was probably 17, I didn't believe at all anymore, but throughout my high school career, I said I was agnostic to anyone who asked. The only person who really knew was my boyfriend (now FI) and he felt the same way, although he wasn't really raised with any religion. It was nice having someone to discuss things with.
Even though I grew up as a christian, I still don't get where people are coming from when they make comments like that. I tend to bite my tongue on the subject, but there are days when I just want to ask why they won't just let me be an atheist and not pester me about it. I don't though, I just try to ignore them.
But I can definitely agree that it's annoying.
Thanks for the perspective ladies!! I talked with FI about this last night because he is just so totally annoyed with this, he's ready to get rude. I asked him to please not be rude about it (he claims that since the link-texting friend is his fraternity brother and former rommate of 4 years and one of his best friends, they have given eachother "plenty of shit" so it wouldn't be percieved as mean) and he agreed to not say anything currently. This particular friend and his wife are very religious (duh) and gain a lot from their faith. I don't want to downplay what they believe, but I do want to make it clear that they should respect our beliefs (or lack thereof). I don't need to be saved. I don't need to hear the word, or see the light, or whatever else. I can totally respect that they think a man in the sky is determining different moves in their lives and at any given point can determine whether or not they get a loan, conceive a child, or heal a sick family member. But I don't believe any of that. So please don't try to make me.
I would tell them. Next time she send you soemthing in that nature, just tell her. "I'm not interested. Please stop sending me these kinds of links/pictures/inpirational messages."
A curt no thank you can go far. I've been on the other side before and see where its coming from, but they should stop - if you want them to.
@Captain013: I know I need to tell them (him and her). I am just so bad at/scared of confrontation I'd rather not say anything because I don't want to sound mean. Sounds like I need to get over it and stand up for myself, considering none of them have a problem doing so.
I think that people forget about etiquette and common sense when it comes to religion. If you had told them you really weren't into cats, they'd have to be pretty cat crazy to continually send you pictures and videos of them. But, because it's religion, they feel like they're justified in pushing it on anyone, and that really they're helping and you'll thank them later, and that they know what's best.
FI's mom is always trying to get him to go back to church. We're both agnostic, and she's had a hard time accepting that. I can't get mad at her about it because, as she put it, religion has given her such joy and a sense of purpose and makes her life better, and she just wants us to have that too because she loves us. So, even if she's not going to change our minds or anything, I don't get annoyed by it because I know she's doing it because she wants us to be happy, not because of any 'holier-than-thou' viewpoint.
Also, to be fair, I know a lot of atheists who do the same thing, and to me that's even worse. I have an atheist friend who, when he hears that someone has any sort of religious belief, always says "You know that's a myth, right? I thought you were smart."
@MissBananaBread: I definitely acknoweledge the fact that some of it is motivated by the fact that they get so much out of it, they want to share. And before I really realized that I dont' believe in anything or are not sure what I believe, I used to think it would be so nice to get so much comfort and happiness out of a set of beliefs. But for me, it feels unlikely, it feels sometimes like a cop-out or an excuse, and sometimes it feel like a myth or living a lie. I dont' share that with anyone who I know is a 'believer', because it's not my place, nor is it my desire to change their minds or belittle what they hold so dear. I can't stand the lack of etiquette. I find that people also lose a sense of etiquette when it comes to politics (we've heard plenty about or conservative/independent-leaning views) or your family planning ("you don't want to have kids? what's the point of your marriage going to be, then?").
I find myself thinking several things lately: 1) the older I get the more I'm realizing a lot of my views and beliefs are that of the minority it seems (politics, religion, healtcare, etc). and 2) it seems that the minorty who thinks the same or similiarly to me are the ones who have the decency or politeness to not shove this in the faces of others.
I feel for you :( The same thing happens to me with a few people. It's always the same people too. If your friends continue to do this, I'd just be honest with them and respectfully tell them that their behavior makes you feel uncomfortable and you feel like they are pushing their religion on you. If they are truly your friends, then they will understand and stop being so pushy with you.
@Eva Peron: I completely agree that we are in a connected world, and that people will react to things according to their beliefs. As an agnostic, if someone offers up that they are praying for me when I post a problem of mine to facebook, I understand that they are wishing me well in the best way they know how and I don't think it's a big deal. What the op's friends are doing, though, is not what you are describing. They are pushing onto her, without any trigger on the op's part, their own religious beliefs when they know that she believes differently. It is like an agnostic or atheist continually sending a religious friend unprompted links to rationalist convention footage, or sending websites about how to avoid mentioning God in your ceremony, or responding to a facebook status about a problem with "you shouldn't pray because it doesn't work." That is annoying and inapropriate, no matter where it's coming from, and I disagree that she should simply ignore this behavior, especially if it continues.
(I just read my response and I realized it could be interpreted as a personal attack. I assure you, it is not! I just wanted to throw in my two cents :) so please don't take it the wrong way!)
@ttwo2: That was a really concise way of describing what I was going through with the FB comments. Especially since I acknowledged the first one (although did not mention or acknowledge the god/prayer part), and they still came back with something about prayer. None of that is rational to me, and our friends know that...or at least, we thought they did. I would never dream of passing on links or articles or websites you mentioned above, out of respect for people who gain so much out of their faith. I don't see how common decency on their part is such a huge thing to be asking.
I talked with FI about it at length yesterday, and while he is much more blunt and to-the-point about things, we agreed that if/when it happens again, we're going to politely tell this friend and his wife that we appreciate and respect that their faith is so strong, but we are not interested in it because that is not what we believe. So hopefully they can accept it and move on because uggggh with the bible verses and lyrics from worship songs and leaving everything up to prayer and god. I just cannot take it any more hahah
@MsArgentina: I do agree somewhat with the notion to just ignore it, which is largely what I've been doing because I feel that I have more respect for them than they do me. My problem isn't with how much I or anyone else my open themselves up for comments like that on social media, I realize we are much more 'connected' and people find it easier to share their opinions, especially if they can hide behind an avatar or an 'anonymous' username. My issue, as I described above is that people like me who have different beliefs shouldn't have to 'just ignore it' or exepct that someone is going to tell us to pray or something like that. It's just that I think they should have enough respect to keep god out of conversations with those of us who don't believe what they do.
I would probably either ignore them or start being a jerk until they realize they need to shut up. I usually go with ignoring though because it's easier.
I'm not religious, I believe in a God and heaven but not religion. I think some people who are religious (definitely not all, but some) like to believe in God and heaven and all that goes with it because it makes them feel better. Some people like to think there is a reason behind everything and that there is some greater plan. Some people just like to believe that their loved ones are watching over them. I think that believing these things makes people feel better, it relaxes them in times of stress and comforts them. I see no harm in this. I love to believe that my family members who have passed away are watching over me. Some of these people feel threatened or scared when others do not believe the same. They may think they are being told that no one is watching over them and they shouldn't think that way.
That being said I hate when people try to force their beliefs on to others. We should everyone believe what they want and approach life how they want. I would never tell someone they have to believe in heaven if they do not, that is annoying and rude. I would not get married in a church and I would be mad if that was pushed. In general I think religion is a very sensative topic in which people feel they are being attacked when you don't agree with them, which is sad.
Are you deleting all the religious FB posts? If only those posts continuously disappear, then maybe they will get the message eventually.
To the people who text you religious things, I would text back: Thanks for thinking of us, but as you know we are not religious and won't use this.
I tihnk you just need to talk with them and tell them how you feel. Most decent people would then leave you alone about it, and if they don't, tell them your friendship will suffer because of their lack of respect for your views.
People need to realize that unless someone directly askes them about religion, they should probably keep their mouths shut on the topic. I find it incredibly rude when people start talking down to me because I don't believe in some made up dude in the sky. Guess what people? I went to Catholic school for 6 years, read the bible cover to cover I don't know how many times, and I probably know more than you about what goes on in it. That is the reason I feel the way I do, because I educated myself, realized it was all just made up bullshit that people with too much time on their hands put together, and found my path.
@MrsSl82be: Yes!!
@AprilJo2011: excellent idea. deleting FB comments now...
I don't push my views on others and I don't expect them to push theirs on me, I realize some of them think I might be silly for believing in something more and that is fine. That said, I don't like when people post their religious views on my facebook- regardless of if they line up with my own beliefs.
But maybe I'm just weird.
@accorn: No, youre not weird. You have tact!! I can't understand why people relentlessly post things like that on FB either.
This kind of thing makes me really sad. I'm a Christian, but I can confidently say that none of my friends/acquaintances/whomever see me as someone who pushes her religion in everyone's faces. That's seriously not cool in my book, and it makes the rest of us look bad. For me, being a Christian means loving and accepting fellow man, not ostracizing them.
My philosophy has always been that I will respect your beliefs, and I hope you can respect mine, too. Easy peasy, right? If only everyone were content to let others believe what they choose.
Being relatively religious, I understand that they want to try to "save" as many people as they can, but it's almost as if you're telling them you don't like a particiular food, and they keep trying to get you to eat it. The more you say you don't like it or don't want to hear about it, the more they push their views on you.
I think you taking the high road and just politely declining is the way to go for now. Something along the lines of what AprilJo2011 said about how you won't use whatever it is they're pushing on you. Part of being Christian is being tolerant, and your friends certainly aren't doing that. Maybe you could remind them of that :o)
Hey guys! Can we all respect each other's beliefs in here? I know religion is a sensitive topic, but as much as you don't want someone pushing their religious beliefs on you, it's equally as insensitive to call their spiritual beliefs names. We can all be different without belittling each other. A reminder of the TOS:
ii. While individuals sometimes disagree, we expect such disagreements to be handled in a mature manner. Please refrain from leaving comments that exhibit intolerance for individuals or groups of people including excessive rudeness, defamatory remarks, racist remarks, threats, or profanity directed at other members.
OP: You're going to have to take the bull by the horns and let your friends know that you're not religious and have no intentions of changing your mind. I have a number of very religious friends and we've had really interesting conversations about our differences in belief, and respect each other's choices. It's not something they push on me, nor I on them since we know each other's boundaries and belief systems. I think we respect each other the more for it.
@bakerella: I'm confused about where in the thread people were not respecting beliefs? Or belittleling? I know almost every single person in this thread has said "I'm _____, but I resepct that others don't believe that. I don't know why they have to push it on others". Just tryign to stay informed because I was a little taken aback by that interjection.
@akp0702: I was wondering the same thing.....I don't agree with everything being said (I'm Christian), but nothing seemed too offensive so far.
And fwiw, I would be incredibly bugged if friends were sending me live feeds to church services or always pushing their beliefs on me. People that are constantly posting religious (or anti-religious) things on FB get the eye-roll from me.
I am agnostic, too. I have family members who are SUPER religious and are always making some sort of comment, and I've never been the kind to bite my tongue...I guess I'm not peacefully agnostic ;-) I feel the same way-I don't randomly tell people that I don't believe in the church, so I don't appreciate when it's assumed that I am religious.
Last Christmas, I was at an Aunt's house with the rest of my father's side of the family...they began talking endlessly about the different churches in their area, and asked if I went to church that day. When I said no, they asked why, and I said I don't go unless it's for a wedding or funeral, without getting into my own beliefs. An uncle then said something like "Well, when you get married, the church __________" I forget what he said, since my mind was reeling...I hate the assumptions!! I told him and the rest of my aunts and whoever else at the table, that my BF and I are firmly against getting married in any kind of a church..and left the table. Ugh.
Also, I cooked the entire meal for Christmas Eve and Christmas day, and not because I believe in Christmas, but because I enjoy my family being together and like the traditions...well, my SUPER religious-constantly preaching to everyone-practically a nun-aunt, always feels the need to make a very long winded prayer before dinner. I can handle a simple one, but she literally reads something the length of 3-4 full paragraphs that I just find ridiculous. She was sick this year, and I was actually very excited about not having to listen to her before dinner speech....and she sent it with her husband to read!! He wipped out the paper and I said "REALLY? Still? I thought we were going to get out of it". I've had enough.
@bakerella: Would you mind clarifying what specifically was disrespectful in this thread? Thanks!
@akp0702: @hisgoosiegirl: @mckernae: I'll step in and answer your questions to bakerella. As I said in my earlier post, I completely agree that it stinks when people push their beliefs down your throat, whether it's political beliefs, religious beliefs, or whether to believe in Santa Claus. And it seems like the thread overall is in agreement that it's about respect, and how respect needs to go both ways. I saw references to God/a god being a 'made up dude in the sky' and religion being 'made up bullshit,' and that didn't seem as respectful, so I got concerned that the thread could turn a little sour. And I didn't want that to happen, because so far, this thread has been so cool and civil, and that's awesome.
I didn't want to react emotionally though, so I asked some of the other hostesses what they thought, and bakerella just popped in to try to preempt a turn in the tides.
I think we've all seen threads about religion on WB, whether pro- or anti-religion, that unnecessarily turn into a war instead of continuing to be an awesome discussion. And I didn't want that to happen.
That said, I didn't mean to interrupt the discussion, and I'm sorry for that!
@Gemstone: makes sense. I saw those things as well, and chose to ignore. I guess I see the point though....these types of threads usually do take a quick turn off a cliff.
Thanks for the clarification!
If you truly believed that there was no God or heaven, neither of you would be getting as upset about it! People who are at peace with their decisions are generally not angry about them nor do they feel the need to defend them!
The fact of the matter is that there is a God. That much is certain, beyond a shadow of a doubt. I personally however feel that organized religion is bullsh!t. The rest is for us to figure out for ourselves.
It's never a good idea to discuss religion with people, especially not in a public forum. It is asking for all kinds of trouble.
"If you truly believed that there was no God or heaven, neither of you would be getting as upset about it! People who are at peace with their decisions are generally not angry about them nor do they feel the need to defend them!"
I don't know if this is necessarily true. To give you an example, I believe that colds are caused by viruses (crazy, right?). My mother on the other hand believes that colds are caused by coldness. So even though I am at peace with my knowledge about viruses, it still drives me nuts when she lectures me on leaving the house with damp hair or drinking cold drinks, or tries to guilt trip me into dressing like a north pole explorer (or else I will catch pneumonia and die), every. single. time. If there was more than one person telling me about this theory and trying to get me to act according to their beliefs, I would get pretty upset about this.
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