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@teaadntoast, I have to disagree with the philosophy that wedding is about the two people getting married, esp there are a lot of guests and family members involved, and esp if the families are contributing financially. I have always heard that the wedding is not about the bride/groom but the honeymoon is. They're playing host of a big party to allow people to celebrate their nuptial. What kind of party hosts are they if their guests feel miserable?
You really need to talk to your son. He's not a mind reader. If he's not made aware that there's a problem, he can't fix it!!! Additionally, why can't his sisters talk to him? They are in their 20's correct?
I posted earlier but had a few more thoughts. My FI's family are heavily involved in the wedding and every time a 'position' opens up, FI says so and so from his family. What about mine? I've had to continually remind him that "Hey I have a family to include too." My groom is more involved more so than what you read about the so called typical groom but even still I get a lot of "Whatever"-"It's up to you" so guess what, I try to pick out something that works for both of us but if it's not possible, I choose what will work best or what I like because he doesn't really care.
Again, your son needs to be made aware of your feelings, or his sisters need to let him in on how they feel. Either way works but until then, don't expect for anything to change.
@pren79 I see what you mean, but ultimately disagree. A wedding is a rite. It's a symbolic ceremony binding two people together, and I don't think that it's hugely unreasonable for the people pledging their lives to one another to reserve the right to fashion it as they see fit, in the way that seems most significant to them.
(Perhaps I ought to have been clearer in noting that I don't lump the ceremony and reception together. They are two different events with different sets of requirements and expectations. Thus far, most of the concretely expressed concerns have had to do with bridesmaids, people who do readings, etc. - people who participate in the actual act of the marriage. The reception is a whole other kettle of fish and I'm much more sympathetic to the desire of anyone, groom's family, bride's family, etc, to be involved in putting together what ought to be a great party for all the guests.)
I'm also puzzled by the idea that a financial contribution comes with an obligation to defer to someone else's preferences. It seems, to me, to miss the point of being generous. I wouldn't insist that someone spend a giftcard on a specific item, or ask for a favor in return for a birthday present, so why should I demand that my cash be allotted in a particular way?
A host or hostess should be gracious, and it's never a good idea to be exclusive or insensitive, but when it comes to one of the singular events in your life it's not being demanding to insist that your opinion and needs be the ones that matter most.
I will be talking to my son sometime soon. I first want to talk to my ex about this. She is hurt like I am but I want to see if she would like to talk to my son with me or seperately. Like I mentioned before I think my daughters want to avoid arguments so that's why they haven't talked to their brother. I will push them to talk to their brother.
Also I was reading up online somewhere about wedding roles like groomsmaids, best woman, bridesmen and man of honor. How common are these roles today? I know it's too late for my son and his fiance to do something similar I'm just wondering if these are becoming more common. I doubt my son would have had his sisters stand on his side and the bride's brothers stand on her side.
This is very common. Why would it be too late to do this for your son's wedding?
Super common. We did it for my wedding---DH's sister stood on his side. I already had 6 bridesmaids (friends)....she wore a pretty black dress (to match the tuxes) and a matching sash that matched the bridesmaids. It's really very very common. 4/5 weddings i've been to in the past year have had somebody of the opposite sex standing on the "wrong" side.
I think it would be too late because for one the bride's brothers invited themselves to be in the wedding party and I don't think they would want to stand on her side and my son and his fiance might not the opposite sex standing on the wrong side idea.
Maybe they don't, but it is an option to just "shuffle people around" to include the sisters if that's what the FI and your son want to do (or really, maybe what your SON wants to do...he's compromised a lot for his FI's wishes, in my opinion , so if it's important to him, she should find a way to make it work).
I thought i'd share a photo with you--my SIL was "one of the guys" that day =]
0487.jpg (57.6 KB, 45 downloads) 2 years old
Are you sure the only reason your daughters haven't spoken to their brother is because they don't want to have a confrontation? Have you actually asken them, point blank, if they want to play that role in the wedding?
Before opening this can of worms with your son it might be wise to discern how your daughters actually feel about this situation, rather than putting them in the middle of a contentious discussion without being certain that being bridesmaids is that important to them.
Coloradoguy: I have been following this thread and while I think it is very dear that you want to be involved with "stuff", I would like to offer a friendly word of advice.
Regarding your wanting to help with "stuff" : My parents paid for almost our entire wedding, for which I will be eternally grateful. But what I am the MOST grateful for is that their gift of money was not tied to any sense of obligation (that they be included, that certain people be in the wedding party, etc.). They recognized that this was our wedding and we should have the wedding that we want. Perhaps the bride simply knows what she wants and just doesn't need a lot of help. I was that bride. My husband was also very involved in the planning - be we had it all taken care of... we knew what we wanted and didn't need a whole lot of help with the planning. My husband and I worked full time and planned our wedding on OUR schedule. We went to visit vendors, had meetings on our lunch hour, etc. This was NOT conducive to including other family members. We interviewed 3 photogs, 5 florists, 2 DJ's, 3 bakeries and visited no less than 8 venues. This takes a LOT of time and private decision making. Further, we really wanted our wedding to be an event that our families could enjoy themselves at! We wanted them to literally show up, celebrate with us, be waited on and enjoy themselves. Perhaps that's all your son and FDIL want as well.
Regarding your daughters not being in the wedding: Perhaps your FDIL is being a bit pushy about the wedding party - but maybe she's not. Maybe your son decided this. My husband and I did not have any of his siblings in the wedding - by HIS choice. I know this bothered his mother - and I assumed it would. But he decided against it. It had absolutely NOTHING to do with me. I was actually really nervous about this decision (didn't want to cause any family animosity) but it was his choice and he stood firm on it. I'm just saying - you never know what the circumstances or reasons are for these types of decisions. And just because they are not in the wedding party does not mean they will not asked to be involved in things like showers, bachelorette parties, wedding duties, etc. We didn't decide any of that stuff until 3 months - 2 weeks before our wedding.
I talked to my ex-wife last and one of my daughters last night. My ex-wife agreed and said that we should talk to our son. My daughter says she is a bit upset with her brother and she will be ok if she's not a bridesmaid but she does want to be involved in the wedding. My ex will be coming back from her two weeks of travel work on Tuesday but she told to go ahead and talk to our son. My other daughter went out of town this weekend with her boyfriend. My daughter will try to get ahold of her. I'm thinking about going over to see my son tomorrow or maybe calling him on the phone.
Good luck talking to your son. definitely let him know how you feel. I think i'd do it in person--take him out to lunch or something, make a nice day of it. I'd try to avoid this conversation over the phone,. I do think your daughters should be involved somehow! Maybe they can be ushers or something...
I'm not sure about taking him out to lunch. He sometimes gets together with friends to watch sports on Sundays. Maybe dinner will work. At this point I want to talk to him alone. I think I would do better with him alone then with his fiance around.
Coloradoguy49, I know this is a difficult time and it sounds to me like you are hurt more by the fact that your sons mother (your ex) and your daughters are hurt. Trust me I know this is hard. I have two sons and no daughters. My oldest son was married and for the most part I was left out of all the planning. The grooms parents were not even listed on the invitation. Let me give you some advice. Don't let this consume you. This is the bride and grooms day. I would let the bride have her way, let them plan and execute the wedding. If you son is willing to go along with it then you should too. Causing conflict now will just put your son in the middle. What I did was a had a GRAND rehearsal dinner. I invited my ENTIRE family. Not just the wedding party. I also offered for the brides mother to invite her family if she wanted. The bride's mother only wanted the wedding party to attend but this was MY affair and I got to make the rules. I would have your ex and daughters concentrate on the rehearsal dinner and let everything else go. When one of your daughters gets married your ex will have PLENTY to plan. I think it is part of the mother-daughter bond. It has been 3 years since my son got married and I am happy to say I get along very well with my daughter-in-law.
I still want to talk to my son. I called him awhile ago and we will be going out to dinner tomorrow night. I guess if my son and his fiance don't want us to be involved in the planning I will do my best to let them have their way even thought it will still hurt. But I still feel in wedding situations a groom's family should be treated better not just expected to do the rehearsal dinner.
Can you remember back to your own wedding? Were your parents as involved in everything as you want to be? Were YOU involved or did you leave everything up to your ex-wife and her Mother?
It seems to be a standing joke among people who have sons...'at least all the guys have to do is show up'! 'Be thankful you have sons so you don't have to pay for all those weddings'! 'Tell me what to wear and where to be and I'll be there'! Yada,yada,yada....I've heard them all from the families of the guys my daughters are marrying
Since we had one Mother who wasn't the least bit interested at all and an equally uninterested stepmother,and now one Mother who told me she hasn't even BEEN to a wedding in 15 years so she has no idea about what to do or help with,look up or shop for...the shopping,net surfing,emailing,investigating,scheduling,and idea presenting has been done by me and my daughters! I've found that its usually just what happens when planning a wedding~the bride & her Mother do the bulk of the work,even while trying to drag the groom in to make decisions,go to tastings,look at pictures,pick out colors,decide on invitation wording and the million other things it takes to pull off such an event.
I hope you're honest with your son about your feelings when you go out,and I hope you post back and let us know what happens!
My ex and I had a small wedding and reception. Both our families were involved in the planning. Back then we lived in northern New Mexico in a poor mining town. People had small weddings at the time. I remembey my aunts did the desserts and my ex's sisters cooked the main dish. I have contributed some money to my son's wedding. My ex and I want to be involved simply because we don't want to feel or look less important the bride's family.
ColoradoGuy_How did it go? I hope you and your son were able to clear the air so all can enjoy this exciting time.
I took my son out to dinner last night. I told him how my ex and I feel about not being including in a lot of things with the planning of the wedding and I did tell that his sisters were a bit upset about not being bridesmaids. One of my daughters later talked to him on the phone. But I don't know what they discussed. I sent her an email awhile ago to see what happened. He told me that his fiance and her family are really close and that's why they are really involved. I told him that my ex and I would like a little more involvement with the planning and activities. My son apologized to me and said he would call my ex soon. He said that his fiancee's mom, aunts and her brothers do butt into a lot of planning and that sometimes annoys him. He said that he was going to talk to his fiancee tonight and tell her about how we feel and if there were ways we could get more involved. I did encourage my other daughter who was out of town this weekend to call or email her brother. At this point I hope his fiancee considers that the fact that this is my son's day too and we deserve just as much involvement and roles in the wedding as her family does.
You definitely did the right thing by talking to him! Hopefully now that they will know how your family has been feeling about all of this, things will start to change. Keep us posted!
To bring in a different perspective it sounds to me (and I could well be wrong) like you aren't very close to your son. Maybe you speak fairly often but it doesn't sound like you are emotionally close. That means that he is less likely to want to involve you in his life then his fiance is to involve her family who she is close to.
Wedding are just part of one's life. If he doesn't usually involve you in things that are important to him why would he for the wedding? If you want to be involved in your son's life that is an important and potentially difficult issue but it doesn't have much to do with a wedding and you shouldn't treat the wedding as the be all and end all.
From your comment you seem offended that your family isn't being treated as "important" (though you are very polite about it). You don't seem to be upset at the lack of closness to your son. This is fairly rude and mean of me but, maybe you aren't as "important" to your son as her family is to the bride. I don't think this issue has much to do with the bride at all. I've often noticed that men don't have as close relationships with their families as women, maybe because society expects men to be less emotional. This might just be the price you have to pay for that.
I hope the harshness of this comment does not hurt anyones feelings.
Wow, this is such an interesting thread! This is definitely a tough situation...and it is hard to say what is exactly the "right" thing to do!
As many of the others have said, the hesitation to allow financial help might be due to not wanting to feel obligated to make decisions that will please the in-laws. Personally, I know that it feels extremely awkward to attempt to coordinate these things! My future in laws are gracious enough to host our rehearsal dinner, but I am feeling extremely awkward about the entire situation! I am afraid to suggest locations that are out of their price range, or that they won't like, etc. Also, I know that I will want to decorate for the rehearsal dinner as well, not just have reservations at a restaurant...so I don't know if they will think I'm stepping on their toes if I go ahead and make up the tables, etc in the way that I want them! However, I would be SOOO grateful for any financial contributions that they would like to make...tradition is out the window with that (however, this won't happen for us)!
As for the issue of your children being in the wedding party...it might just be due to the bride not wanting that many bridesmaids/attendants? How many are there total at this point? I know that I really wanted to have a small wedding party...and I have 4 bridesmaids...that was the limit. I know that the thought of any more made my skin crawl...too many people! Could this possibly be the case? And, if that is the case, could your children be involved in another way (usher, doing a reading, etc)?
I hope this all gets figured out for you! It is so wonderful that you are that invested and willing to contribute to your son's wedding! :)
@Arachna: Well put - I completely agree with your observations about the differences in women and men in maintaining/valuing close, family relationships throughout adulthood. I'm sure it's not the case 100% of the time, but it certainly is a lot. It is true time and time again in mine and my husband's family. It may sound harsh, but it sounds like the case here too...
I do have a close relationship with my son or I thought I did. Since his engagment we have been getting together less and less. I agree some men don't have close relationships with their families. But I do and try to have close relationships with my sons.
I don't agree with the other posts about men not being as close with their families as women when they grow up. My FI talks to his parents at least 5 times as much as I talk to mine and we see his family more often. It doesn't mean I'm not as close with my parents, we just have a different relationship.
But I have to stand up for the bride here.... coloradoguy- you seem to be placing blame on the bride and her family. If I were the bride in this situation, I'd probably have a break down. It is not her job to make sure everyone on both sides of the family is happy. Maybe she's having a hard enough time dealing with her own family. The wedding is a special day, but the marriage is what really matters, so try not to pit your son against his finacee (or make him take sides) over one day. You risk harming their relationship.
I really like InLaws' advice (#96).
@katiebug
There are four bridesmaids in the wedding at this point. But the bride's two brothers invited themselves to be groomsmen when the engagement was first annouced. They did without my son picking groomsmen for himself. The bride's cousin will also be in the wedding. The best man is a close friend of my son. My other son is deployed in Iraq and won't be back until October 2010.
I do understand brides sometimes wanting small wedding parties and wanting those parties to consist of people they know and are close with. It hurts me that the bride's brothers weren't courtious and invitied themselves before my son could speak for himself. My son probably allowed them to be in the wedding to avoid arguments with his fiancee. I do hope my daughters are at least involved in the wedding somehow but the bride announced recently that her godparents will be doing readings. My son said last night that his fiancee wants a lot of her relatives involved in the wedding but he will talk to her about getting my daughters, ex and I involved somehow.
@Jacqi
I'm not trying to pit my son against his fiancee. I just want my family to have as much involvement as her family does. Like I've said before I don't want my family to look or feel less important that her family. I know it isn't her job to make my family and I happy. My son said he does want us to have a little more involvement in the wedding and that he will talk to his fiancee about this. I told my son that we would help with stuff that the bride's family might not want to help with.
I'm honestly not trying to start anything between my son and his fiancee.
@coloradoguy - Why is it significant to you that your family be seen as important? And by whom?
It seems as though maybe you're worried about your relationship with your son and the closeness of your family? Weddings tend to bring those sorts of issues to the fore in odd ways.
I understand your feelings, but agree with some of the posters above that you should be very careful not to put your son in the middle or use the wedding as a proxy discussion for other things that might be on your mind.
I'm not saying that this is the case, but I've heard you say multiple times on this thread you don't want you or your ex-wife to "look less important" than the bride's family - to me, this makes it sound like part of your concern here is appearances, not the actual involvement. Putting the issue of your daughters' involvement and the bride's brother's involvement aside for a moment (which is an issue I do think is not right), take a step back and ask yourself why it concerns you that you will not "look important" with regard to the wedding. Is this about actually helping out and being involved or is it possibly about the fear of looking in some way "less than" or in some way being construed as bad in-laws or something in the eyes of friends and family? Nobody will think that. Nobody will even know who contributed to what, who picked what, etc. Again, I'm not saying this is the case but I'm just throwing it out there - worrying about appearances is petty and superficial.
I think the reason it is important that my family look and feel important is because I want others to see that we are involved a lot in my son's life and we do care about him. We want to help out with stuff because we care about him and we want to experience some of the things that the bride and her family are experiencing and possibly enjoying. A few of you have brought up that when my daughters get married me and my ex will be involved in those weddings but I don't think or feel it is wrong for us to want to be involved with my son's wedding.
Good luck!
I'm glad you've spoken with your son and it sounds like he'll involve you a bit more and the situation will be resolved. I think it's great that you're aware and careful about causing trouble between your son and fdil and I'm sure everything will work out.
I think that you obviously love your son and I am sure he loves you but as another poster above said some people have different relationships with their families, I've identified it as emotional closeness but that's not a measure of love or anything, it's just a different way of relating.
Your son is very lucky! I wish my future father in law/mother in law was involved more or even wanted to be, my fiance and I are doing EVERYTHING on our own with no help whatsoever and it is stressful!! Good luck to you, I wish you the best.
@coloradoguy - If you haven't already, I think it would be a really good idea to explain your feelings to your son using exactly the words you did in your post:
I think the reason it is important that my family look and feel important is because I want others to see that we are involved a lot in my son's life and we do care about him. We want to help out with stuff because we care about him...
Phrasing your concerns this way makes it clear that you're not just hung up on appearances or looking to engage ina power struggle with the bride and her family.
I'm with Wennie. Coloradoguy, you want to help me plan my wedding??? LOL Neither mine or FI's parents are really involved. My mom gave us a little bit of money, but isn't really interested in planning. Neither of our dads are helping out financially or in any other way - def. no planning! (unless they plan to surprise us later somehow, but I doubt it.) And FMIL repeatedly asks us why we want to "waste money on this crap" and tells us we should go to the courthouse and spend the money on our house. UGH!!!!!! 
One more thought would be to talk with the fiance directly and put it more that you are going to be family for a very long time and you don't want to get started on the wrong foot. I would definately reach out to her as well. I was thing about last night about how I would feel if fiance's family scheduled a meeting without me to discuss issues with the wedding and I would feel really hurt.
The reason I wanted to talk to my son alone first is because I would have been way too nervous talking to my son with his fiancee around. I just wanted to hear his feelings alone first. I got an email response from my daughter and she told me that she told her brother that she would like to be involved in the wedding somehow. He said he will his fiancee about it. Like I said before I'm not trying to hurt my son's fiacee I just don't want to family to miss out on things and look less important. I do plan to reach out to her at some point but at this point I just want my son to know where we are coming from and find a way to involve us. I don't know if he has talked to my ex-wife or my other daughter.
If you email her or just chat with her quick, I'm sure it will likely improve your relationship in the long run. Once you guys get on the same page,I'm sure she would appreciate your support and help. Wedding planning can be such an emotional thing for some people and hurt feelings now are some things people hold on to forever.
I do realize how emotional things can get. I feel that the groom's family should be given just as much of a chance of being involved in planning and participation of the wedding as much as the bride's family.
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