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Just a question I have been pondering lately...A friend and I recently had a discussion about this. (she came home to her BF looking at porn on the computer--he was severly embarrassed and she mortified). I myself would probably have been slightly bothered by the situation as well. I am just curious what other women out there think about the topic and why they feel that way.
Is he a porn maniac? or just occassionally into looking? I think if it's a constant thing or something he does a lot, then there's a huge problem. I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here a little bit.
I think a lot of women will disagree with me on this because they don't want THEIR fiances looking at porn. OMG PORN, NO! AHHH. I'm not a fan of the idea, but I think it's normal. Most of those women are fake up to their eyelids anyways. Also, saying that they don't watch porn once in awhile is like saying they don't "take care of themselves" occassionally when we all know they do. I mean, c'mon, realistically? Are you going to be offended if your FI wants to do it himself sometimes when you aren't around? haha.
Once I caught my FI simply because I was looking for a site I'd been to and hit Ctrl+H and found a website with boobies! He was like, "well, when I'm bored. I just like boobies" and sure enough, that was the only hit on his computer in a month. I'm sure he's read a playboy here and there, but it's not like he gets a subscription. I'm sure that some guys get "tips" on what to do to women from porn, too. I learn new "tricks" from Cosmo all the time!!! How is reading about it any different than occassionally watching it?
I don't think casual porn is a big deal. Are we talking pictures or really dirty stuff? I'd be freaked if I saw really dirty stuff on my FI's computer, though. Anything really, er, nasty I guess, or really out there. It would also tell me that maybe OUR sex life was a little ho-hum and I'd directly ask him if he wants us to spice things up a little or if he just wanted to watch a fantasy. Everyone has fantasies. Or maybe he's just curious, I think that's normal too.
Look at it this way: how many women read steamy romance novels, right? Erotic novels, to me, are the same way. Sometimes I read an excerpt and go "whoa...where's my FI? I want to jump his bones" because it has the same effect. Reading really sexy stuff and watching sexy stuff...it kinda is the same thing now, isn't it? Maxim has lots of borderline photos, too. C'mon, mostly naked celebrities?
Don't we oggle men with nice abs too? It's just that men's, er, "junk" isn't as nice to look at as some of ours I think. At least that's how my FI puts it. I don't like looking at men's hairy butts and their unattractive man parts. It's not pretty. But to them, women's stuff is! I guess there's just some food for thought. I wouldn't be bothered if my FI looks at porn once in awhile privately.
I also had some really sexy boudoir pictures done for him so now he can look at ME! and he LOVES THEM.
I clicked "if it interfered with our relationship" because I think that signals a problem. Just like anything that interferes in a relationship. I'd like to think that I'm everything my FI wants in a sexual fantasy, but I'm just not, realistically. At least not all the time 
Hey, sometimes my old boxer shorts and t-shirts are easier to get into than lingerie, lol
we actually had a little bit of an issue with this. basically FH was checking some sites out and I found them in the computer history. it did creep me out initially but really, it's a visual fantasy so I tried to understand. I asked him to just delete the history so I couldn't see the sites. I haven't checked the computer in a year so I have no idea if he's still looking at it but we have so little alone time away from each other that if he is looking at it, it's not a usual thing. I also offered to look at it with him (sorry if that's tmi). I figured if it was something he was interested in we could at least do it together. He never took me up on the offer though.
Basically, it did initially creep me out but then I realized that guys look at porn. As long as he isn't addicted to it, I'm ok with the occasional viewing.
I agree completely with ejs48y. And I think as long as you and your FI know where you each stand on it and are honest (like anything else), it's no big deal. So I also voted for the "if it interfered" option.
I may end up being in the minority here, but I am not okay with it at all. We are both actively seeking to live a Christian lifestyle and believe that porn is in direct opposition with that lifestyle.
That said, I am also aware that these days it is rare to find a male who has not looked at porn at some point. I wouldn't hold it against him to have something like that in his past, but it has no place in his present or in our future together.
My final word on the matter is to echo minneapolitan and ejs48y: the most important thing is that both of you are on the same page, regardless of how you feel about porn. If you are ok with him looking occasionally, I hope that means he'd be fine with you looking at it occasionally, too!
Cheers,
MissRain
When FI and I were first dating I used his computer to write a paper and somehow found a huge stash of porn (I wasn't snooping, seriously). At first, I got very upset and freaked out. I know he continued to watch it (we were long distance for over 2 years) and I think he still does even though we're living together. My issue wasn't the fact that he watched it, but it was the amount he watched. I'll admit, I have looked on his computer to see if he still watches and for a while I was shocked at how much he was watching! Now, I don't know if he just went to a lot of sites to find something he liked or if he actually watched like 2 HOURS of porn. Regardless, it kind of got to me.
However, I felt like a hypocrite. Why? Because I myself like porn! I'd watched it with other boyfriends and privately (ha, I can't believe I just admitted that). So a few weeks ago FI and I decided to go to a sex toy store. We bought a movie but didn't watch it until this past Tuesday. Seriously girls, if your sex life is lacking or getting boring, go buy some porn! I'm not kidding, it was like we were freshly dating again (we've been together for over 3 years).
Obviously it is OK if you have a problem with it. I get that it can be nasty and demeaning to women. But honestly, a little research goes a long way. There are plenty of women directors out there who are making movies specifically for women.
I think if a women thinks her SO isn't masturbating and/or watching porn, they might want to reconsider that thought. Sometimes I WANT my FI to do it so he lasts longer with me! Self pleasure shouldn't be this thing that we scoff at. It's healthy, it teaches us to be comfortable with our bodies, and it's fun. Porn can be a great accessory to it.
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Agreed. I don't actually care to look at porn, though...i don't find it very interesting. Some if it scares me! haha. But I'm not opposed to us both looking at it at some point. We've talked about incorporating various things into our sex life in the future when we feel the need to.
@EAQ219, lol, my FI and I do that, too.
It's really nice to see other woman out there with the same view of this kind of stuff as me. Living in the midwest, people are generally pretty conservative here. I'm the "hippie liberal" at all our functions, LoL. Sometimes I think I'm just brainwashed by Glamour and Self about sex, haha. Most of my friends are REALLY freaked out by these things. Mostly because a lot of them are sexually inactive though. A few of them are like missrain, very Christian/Catholic so I respect them by not bringing up the topic in the first place. They'd be completly abhorred by the idea of some things and I try not to kiss and tell. I have one friend that I swap information with. But, interestingly enough, my friends come to me for advice so they are prepared for their wedding night! LOL. I now make "sex baskets" for bachelorette gifts for my virgin buddies. All very useful little tools i've come across in the last 4 years with my FI.
I've been thinking about sex a LOT lately b/c my FI and I took a 13-month break before our wedding night. And our honeymoon is in 3 weeks! I'm getting really nervous, LoL.
Ejs4y8: 13 MONTHS!?!? I think I remember you saying at some point that he's in the military though, right? Wow, though...I'd be nervous, too! Aww I'm so excited for you!! And your FI, too, I guess lol. You two really WILL have that honeymoon period that so many newlyweds don't get to really feel because they live with their SO's and see them all the time. Ok...enough threadjacking...continue with the porn talk!
My FI looks at porn maybe once every two weeks. It doesn't really bother me. I asked him to show me what kind of things he watched- it was all basically the same stuff we like to do together. He has a much, MUCH bigger sex drive than I do, and sometimes I do say no, even when I know he really wants to, so he turns to porn because it helps him blow off some of that steam.
Now, excuse me, but I have tried to find a more polite way to say this and I haven't.
I don't really get why he needs porn to help him masturbate. Theoretically, he's already all hot and horny, or why does he want to get off in the first place? I have come to realize that his libido works in a completely different way from mine. He doesn't have to be "horny" to be "in the mood". He doesn't really understand why I can't just be ready for sex at every waking moment-- I need some TLC first. We've really had to learn to recognize those differences to make our sex life work.
The long and short of it is that yes, I would be uncomfortable if he was watching porn on a daily basis and it was something that he preferred to having sex with me. But I'm not going to begrudge him an occasional video, especially when I've turned him down.
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I clicked that it doesn't bother me because it's a fantasy.
I think I'm in the minority here, but it doesn't bother me at all and I know FI watches/looks at porn rather often. I don't enjoy watching it myself, but it feels like no big deal because we've been honest and open about it from the beginning. He told me that he watches porn and we've talked about it. It's not akward at all I think because we've talked about it so much.
I just kind of assumed it was normal for him to watch, especially so he can have 'alone time.' I'm waiting til I get married to have sex, so (by default) FI hasn't had sex in the last four years. It would be cruel to take porn away from him hahaha. Not that it'd ever come to this, but I'd rather have him use a movie with himself than do something with someone else.
But, seriously, just because a guy watches a movie of other people doesn't mean he'd rather be with someone else. It just means he'd rather have you there :).
I have to fall into the same camp as missrain. I certainly think there is a continuum, regarding the severity. So obviously the stronger the porn, the worse it is.
I heard a lecture. (I'm not positive. But it might be from this site. http://www.chastity.com/seminars/index.php?id=5 .) There were some really interesting points. This guy talked about how when someone views porn, he (or she) is getting unhealthy images. They might walk away with certain expectations (ie. body type, certain sized naughty bits, willingness to perform certain acts.) And in reality, most partners won't actually meet those expectations (or all of them anyway). He also said that in viewing porn you start getting to the point where you need the porn or those images, to be able to have sex with your partner. I think he was saying that as you're having sex with your partner, you might find yourself doing things (with increasing frequency), like only wanting sex if you watch porn, or as your having sex, imagining other people or porn images in order to enjoy it or "get you where you need to be". The bottom line is, ultimately you end up in a situation where your partner is simply not enough for you. And if you feel that way what will happen next?
Just thought it was interesting, for anyone who wanted to check it out.
I think that's a good point, Tanya123. I think it CAN be a *gateway* into crazier stuff.
That being said, am I the only one who, when she's had a glass or two of vino, is less inhibited and a little more open in bed? My FI loves that, but I'm not about to have a glass of wine every time we're intimate just to reach that mental stage of less inhibition so we can have wilder sex.
I'd certainly never want a male porn star for a real FI! They're scary sized!!!!! AHHHH. lol. We all know the girls are so plastic and fake and collagened and the men are bronzed and hyped on steroids anyways, haha.
Speaking from personal experience, I had to go through this situation with my FI. It was very, very, VERY stressful, and it nearly broke our relationship.
His view point was that he wasn't physically cheating and that it was normal and that it was just something he had always done. My feeligns were that it was a "sneaking" activity, it made me feel like I wasn't physically attractive to him, and it was something he would do when I'd be in the house asleep or in another room sometimes. It took MANY conversations, arguments, and months before we had a common understanding about it.
It was really hard to go through, but I'm glad we did, because the biggest thing about it that bothered me was the sneaking aspect. Once he realized what an impact it had on me, and once I realized that he loves me (and my body) and that he wouldn't lie or sneak about it anymore, he stopped using it or at least only uses it when I am not around and that doesn't really bother me.
I guess now, my opinion on the matter is that if he still does it, I want to know nothing! He respects my standpoint on this, and I do his.
I don't mind if my FI looks at porn once in a while - it's just a fantasy. I would be upset if it started to interfere with our relationship or if he would rather look at porn than be with me.
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I agree that if FI wanted to watch porn rather than spend time with me then we'd have a problem. However, as our situation is, he travels a lot and we both are alone a lot. I know he takes care of buisness when he's not home for weeks on end. As do I. If he uses a visual aid to take care of it so be it, sometimes I do too, only mine is in the form of a steamy story lol! We even hit a dry spell not too long ago and incorporated it into our bedroom life to give us a little kick start, and boy let me tell you what a kickstart it was! Lol. It's not an all the time thing but sometimes when we're feeling adventurous will pop in a DVD. Bottom line, it works for us as a couple, but I totally respect those people who aren't into it. Different strokes for different folks.
Am I the only one here who feels like this is a form of cheating? He should only be having these thoughts about me, not other women. When he's imagining himself with those women, it's almost like he's cheating on you.
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That's unrealistic, though. To expect him to think of you and only you? It'd be nice....but I doubt it happens. After all, there were other women before we came along to marry them!
If he's thinking about them while doing stuff with you...well, that IS bad!
You've never had an innappropriate thought about someone else? I once had a dream about Bobby Flay, lol. Why? I don't know. I told my FI about it and he laughed at me. It couldn't have been Brad Pitt, eh?
I know that I can't provide sex 2-3 times as day, and it's okay with me if he looks at it. I know he loves me and is faithful to me..... and that he would rather have sex with me than look at porn - it's just an avenue for him to enjoy himself sexually (and I have my ways, too!)
To go along with ecstatic, we had an incident with the website hotornot.com - are any of ya'll familiar? It's where you look at pictures of girls and rate them on a scale of 1-10. I think THAT is more "cheating" than porn because you are looking a pictures of women who have NOT put themselves out there are porn stars/adult entertainers. It's much more emotional than porn (does that make sense?) and I had a HUGE freak-out about it. I guess I just took it as he would rather look at pictures of other girls than me.... which was a big deal.
HotOrNot vs. porn, I know he'd never hook up with a porn star, and porn is based off FANTASY but hotornot is based of REALITY which is much more personal and emotional. So we made a deal - yes to the porn (for both of us!) and NO to the HotOrNot. And I'll do my best to fulfil my "wifey" duties in the bedroom, too!!
@ ejs4y8 - Bobby Flay, interesting. I do have thoughts about Brad Pitt all the time. Actually, I imagine Brad Pitt and Angelina together alot. Not that I'm into girls also, but thinking about them together makes me a little hot. But I spend most of my day thinking about my fiance.
So I just asked my FI if he thought of himself and the girl on film while he's watching porn (ecstatic's question prompted me to ask him). He said that he actually puts himself in the guy's position and me in the girl's position. For me, I just take it for what it is...two people having sex on film. I don't really think "Wow..I wish THAT guy was doing those things to me." Obviously not all people watch porn that way, just our personal ways. For us, it's not a form of cheating.
@FutureMrsTal: my FI and I do the same :) What a great kickstart, huh?
I always thought I would never stand my FI watching porn, until he confessed and the conversation came up. He explained how he uses it so that he can last longer with me. He has an extremely high libido, and realistically doesn't expect me to have the same, which I appreciate. I know that he doesn't prefer it over me, and I feel like I can't really blame him when I turn him down (sometimes over a long period of time) when I know he really wants it.
@ estatic - The thing is, I don't feel like he is having thoughts about being with those other women. Maybe some guys do, but he's explained to me that it simply turns him on to watch it, and helps him...ahm...finish his business. I know that he prefers me and my body to the girls that he sees in porn. They are obviously fake, and to me, porn doesn't replace real sex with a real person.
@ ejs4y8 - Good point about the books. I think it's a fair comparison of sorts. And I know what you mean about reading a part and wanting to jump your boy! Lol!
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I'm SUUUUUCH a loser for admitting that 
I think about my FI most of the time, too. But sometimes something inappropriate pops in inadvertently, especially if i'm watching HBO! HBO is sooo bad now!
Aww, that's cute EAQ, it's like he's mentally role-playing the two of you! My FI said it just gets him thinking about sex in general, and then he starts getting all grab-assy with me. When i'm cooking is NOT the time to be bugging me. Sometimes watching it or reading it or thinking it just kickstarts it. Then you can go jump your FI
I plan on bringing a racier-than-my-usual novel with me on my HM to get me thinking about it during the day! The more you think it the more you want it, right?
@ejs4y8: 1) Bobby Flay...um hilarious. For some reason I've had like 3 dreams with...wait for it...Brett Michaels from Rock of Love. EW!
That's a good idea about the racy novel on the honeymoon. I remember reading novel excerpts in Cosmo and thinking "Oh...my...I should get one of these!" Do you have any recs?
Haha good point. Well, if you're a loser for admitting it I'm a loser for agreeing!
Plus, is anyone completely innocent on imagining with another guy (Brad Pitt anyone?)? You can't do that and expect that guys don't either, ever. Or maybe I'm the only one 
My Fh admitted to me, 8 months into our relationship that he had a porn addiction.
Okay, I am actually a pretty open person but this floored me. But I now realize what is a porn addiction to one person is not necessarily a porn addiction to another. It floored me so much that I was on the floor crying over it, and mostly only because of how he presented it. He wanted to refrain from having sex until marriage and I was like WHAT!!!! all of it, nothing, nadda?
So, it came as a big rejection to me.
But now I know more about it and how he had the guilt of God over him, and that is a big guilt to hold.
I honestly think he was probably having a healthy release, but he felt horribe about it. And in that, well, I only want him to feel amazing. So, I had to stick with his plan.
I would be livid if I found out here were meeting women or chatting with them. Luckily, the fear of God has been instilled in him and he is so afraid of causing me pain that I don't think he'd go there. However, I wonder, what if i wanted us to watch porn or get a little naughtier than naughty, would it cause him to go back and look at porn?
However, as he was kicking his porn habit, we didn't talk about sex, we read the bible everyday and he stopped biting his finger nails. He felt like he had to show me in an outwardly way that he has self control. So, I was suppose to measure this in nail biting? Ok.
We have held off on the sex and have had very limited physical contact, in part because we live 10,000 miles apart. We will marry and have our honeymoon in 3 weeks as well. Thank God!
However, I am actually getting a little nervous, excited, but nervous.
Erotica recommendation coming your way.
1. Delta of Venus - Anais Nin .........It is very good.
2. WET , waterproof erotica
3. The Butcher
4. 9 1/2 Weeks......sure it was a movie, but the novel is very erotic
Okay, I will stop there for fear that I know too much about erotic writing.
Um, a little secret out of the bag. My FH used to read a blog I kept in college. He kept sending me messages even thought it took me forever to reply and finally 3 years later here we are.
Let me preface this by saying that I respect everyone's opinions so please don't take anything I say to imply that anyone else is wrong. As mentioned above, the only really important thing is that you and your fiance/husband are on the same page on this!
I don't have any problem with porn (assuming it involves consenting adults, of course). My fiance views porn pretty much every day. Porn is the lazy man's version of fantasy -- it's a quick and easy way for him to release some tension. I sure don't have the time or inclination to have sex two or three times a day! I will add that out of all men I know, he's the most respectful of women and he thinks EVERY woman is beautiful. My ex also looked at porn frequently, and I didn't feel it affected him negatively either.
I would certainly have a problem if he was addicted to porn, or it was impacting our sex life in some way, or if he felt he had to hide it from me. As long as we're open about it, I think it's a healthy outlet.
Hm. I find myself disagreeing with many of the comments posted in this thread, but I won't specifically point them out for the sake of remaining nonconfrontational.
Perhaps it's because I have a very active sex drive and a number of kinks myself (which I obviously won't go into here or in any other public forum), but I don't see a single thing wrong with using porn or any other form of erotica as a means of aiding self-pleasure.
It's not really a matter of imagining yourself having sex with the person in the video or story (and I asked my FH if he feels the same - he does). Have you seen what most porn stars look like? Definitely not my fantasy, nor his. It's just erotica. About 85 - 90% of the time, I imagine being in a similar situation with my fiance, and otherwise, it's hardly ever a well defined particular other person. Just the imagery, whether via video or literature, helps direct your imagination in a particular sexual vein. Imagining or viewing a sexual situation is arousing, thus facilitating better self-stimulation. If you view porn-watching as cheating, do you also view masturbation as cheating? If so, why?
/My2Cents
Interesting and hysterical post! I completely have agreed with just about every point both ejs and EAQ have made. Boys will be boys and really, it wouldn't bother me unless it was influencing our relationship or changing his behavior. FI and I don't talk about it, and I honestly don't know if he does watch or read porn. I remember his old roommate and roommate's girlfriend gasping in astonishment when I got FI a MAXIM in a care package. lol. I mean come on its MAXIM and we were long distance. Alas, too each couple their own.
I have a good Catholic boy who is not interested in anyone but me... trust me... we've had some off the wall convos over the past 4.5 years. He even refuses to even go to a strip club. Anyways...
I've seen more porn than him... b/c of college.
... and I find it absolutely revolting... maybe people watch stuff that wouldn't trigger my gag reflex, but no, its not okay IMO if it's like an everyday kind of thing... maybe the occassional fantasy-like thing. Outside of that, I think you have a problem.
Okay, I know I'm in the minority here, but I'm going to have to say that I would have a problem with it. I have a severe dislike for porn (even though I've viewed it in the past - maybe especially because of that). Most of the guys that I respect most in my life have confessed that they have/do struggle with porn (including my first boyfriend and my fiance). I think it's an unhealthy thing to turn to fantasy to satisfy you instead of reality. And self-control on the guy's part shows character, even though it's hard. I'd rather make sex about mutually seeking to satisfy eachother rather than just about bringing pleasure to ourselves (which is all that porn does.
A friend of mine works for an accountability software program writing blogs about porn addictions and their affect on relationships. If you're interested, you can check it out at http://www.covenanteyes.com/blog/ . It may give you some perspective from people who have been in marriages where that is a problem.
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@mandalee0624 - I find it interesting that you phrase it as "He even refuses to even go to a strip club." While I'm totally okay with (and supportive of) my FH watching porn, I would actually take issue with him frequenting strip clubs. While perhaps the "performances" in strip clubs are more tame than much of the porn out there, I feel it comes much much closer to cheating than watching porn. By that same token, I would not be okay with him calling a phone sex line, participating in a sex chat, or using a webcam for sexual purposes. While the people in pornographic videos are certainly still "real" they are not real in the same manner in which the girl dancing in front of you is real. They are not as "real" as the girl on the other end of the line, or the girl flashing her chest at your request live though somewhere else in the world. I'm okay with something that aids sexual stimulation, but not if another person is actively participating in the creation of the fantasy in that moment.
Perhaps this is a bit of a double standard, but it seems to make sense to me. I know FH feels very much the same way (he is very occasionally dragged along to the strip club bachelor party which we both tolerate but do not appreciate) so at least we're on the same page. He doesn't mind me reading literotica but would have serious issues with me frequenting La Bare or having phone sex with strangers!
I think honesty and moderation are the key here. I know my fiance likes to watch porn. I sometimes like to watch porn. Sometimes we've watched it together. But I feel like as long as we're honest about it, as long as we both would prefer each other than the person on the screen, as long as it isn't negatively impacting our relationship... then I think it's okay.
Interesting thread, and I appreciate everyone's opinions and reflections!
@iviary, yeah, I guess to me I don't see much of a difference between porn and strip clubs. I mean, yes... if you order a lap dance or pay the stripper or call a sex line, then there is interaction... then you're actually entering that fantasy. But simply going and watching at a strip club seems essentially the same as watching a video. And actually what goes on in porns is even more graphic. Thats just how I see it.
LoL, thanks for the books, mizuno! haha. *bookmark*
With all the hormone medicines i'm on, I have practically ZERO desire. It's a nasty little side effect. Whereas we all know, men want it twice a day every day if they can!
So I'm going to do EVERYTHING i can (ie read everything i can while laying out at the pool sipping on a mojito...) to encourage myself to be spontaneous and jump his bones more than I normally do and be a good newlywed wife.
@ mandalee, actually if you've been to a strip club, a lot of what the dancers do for other people's lap dances get pretty graphic, I went for a friend's bachelor party recently and was pretty appalled by some of the things the dancers did. I'd never been to a strip club, nor do I think I would ever return, but maybe it was just the one I went to. I'm supportive of my FI watching porn and even us watching it together but if he were to see some of that stuff I saw or worse take part in it, we'd have a problem.
@ FutureMrsTal I'm thinking you missed her point. I don't think I ever thought of it in that aspect, but I sort of agree. Besides porn is way more graphic than anything I ever saw at a strip club! My FI and I have tried to use porn before and were more distracted by some nasty stuff that went on in the video. Yeah, its just not for us. I'm happy some can benefit from it!
ejs....
I had depression and few years back and had zero sex drive...I am not sure if it was depression first and then no sex drive, but not having a sex drive certainly gave me depression.
I later started taking med for depression and anxiety attack...you know it's bad when you have then almost exclusively when around the person you are dating. That relationship is over, however, even on the meds I still had an insane sex drive. I am hoping the FH will be able to keep up. Turning 30 has had some wonderful benefits :)
i don't know and if I did know, I don't remember what you might be taking meds for. But perhaps if it is possible there might be a replacement med that could help or at least not hinder your sex drive. One thing I think that helps is having more time to thing about sex...and of course I have m ore ideas, but I think if we train our bodies to be more physically responsive we will eventually "feel" like it more often. We are women, we need more time then men. I am not saying our entire day needs to be dedicated to it, but an example might be, doing something in the AM that will get a little blood flowing for the rest of the day. This could be exercise or even a little self stimulation (I can't even imagine the comments I am going to get), but just enough to have a rush of blood and then remind yourself of this throughout the day. I know, it's very Pavlovian. But hey, I remember being so desperate I would have tried anything.
Anyway, perhaps this is more of private message thing.
anyway, on this note. I need to go to lunch.
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