I was looking through another thread and found that many women have said that they have found the love of their lives and they are going to be with him forever, through hell or high waters, for life etc. and I couldn't help but wonder.
Make no mistake, I too thought the same at 25. So when I met my ex, and the relationship was too good to be true, I too pledged 'forever'. Life beyond him was simply not conceivable.
Forever was the reason I put up with every lie and abuse for the next 5 years. Even though he stripped me of my confidence, isolated me from my friends and family and made me hang around his, controlled my money, made me feel small and insignificant to the point that I had almost lost myself, I stuck with him. Forever had been pledged and forever was going to be delivered.
When I had enough and broke up with him, I had asked him once: "You did X,Y,Z to me and when you were doing that you never stopped to think what if I push her too far and she leaves me?" He said: "No, because you had promised forever."
Even now when he is (surprise!) begging me to take him back he says "You promised forever. How come you gave up in 5 years? If it is broken you should fix it, not throw it away." I also think I have reneged on my promise, although I'd never go back to him in a million years.
So what do you bees think when you are pledging 'forever'? How far are you willing to go to honor that pledge? And if you don't pledge 'forever' then with what thought do you go into a relationship?
My bff who left her cheating husband, put it something like this: he's broken his vows so I'm not bound by mine. She too never dreamed it would happen when she married.
EDIT: I voted "other". I wouldn't simply leave if the relationship was unhealthy, I'd work at it. But with many people, a point of no return is passed. The obvious ones are cheating and abuse, but there can be other reasons too.
(BTW we pledged "as long as we both shall live", since we're both free to marry if the other dies).
Infidelity is basically the only thing I won't forgive. That'd most likely be it for me. Not only because of the act itself, but then there'd be no way I could ever trust him ever again. Couldn't deal.
Baring abuse or infidelity (and this is something I think CAN be worked on but it is hard) I mean forever. I know it won't always be sunshine and rainbows and hate the idea that just because something isn't working out exactly how someone wanted they should just drop it and not even try. But I also don't think for a second anyone should ever have to stay in an abusive relationship, mental/emotional or physical.
If he breaks his vows I forgo mine. Also if he commits a crime that I cannot forgive such as drugs, murder, rape I forgo my vows. This has been discussed, but we are vowing forever
When I say 'forever,' I mean forever. So does FI. We take that aspect of our relationship *very* seriously. This is why I wouldn't promise 'forever' to just anyone or any relationship- I would have to know that man EXTREMELY extremely well before I made that kind of commitment- like I wouldn't make that kind of commitment until at least a couple of years in.
The thing to remember, regarding marriage, is that there are other promises that are taken with marriage vows, NOT just that you will stay together forever. The other vows should be taken JUST as seriously as the one where you promise 'forever.' And BOTH people have to honor those vows.
I think if something were to happen between FI and I- infidelity, abuse, what have you, I would owe it to him and our relationship to insist that we go to some sort of marriage counseling. However, if the other person isn't willing to work on things, there is only so much that you can do.
I would never put up with a habitual cheater/abuser. If my FI cheated on me, I'm not sure what I would do. I'd like to think that I would be able to forgive him and we would be able to work through it. But if he did it more than once? I don't think I'd be able to move past that.
I think that's why it's soooo important to be looking for the signs of that before you get married or make that kind of promise. (Granted, I personally know women who were completely fooled and there weren't ANY signs of that sort of thing until after she had walked down the aisle.)
I would never get married to someone unless I could say with certainty that he would never do those things to me. Because I would feel incredibly uncomfortable promising 'forever' to someone unless I was absolutely sure that he would hold up *all* of his vows, too.
You were right to break up with that guy, and for that very same reason, you're definitely right not to take him back.
@rachelmichelle: Thank you so much for the support. I think you made an excellent point here: promising 'forever' only after you know the guy well enough that he will uphold his vows. It would save a lot of heartache.
I don't think we ever use the term forever. It would be pretty meaningless to DH, as he doesn't believe in any type of after-life. Personally, I would have trouble vowing to anything 'forever' as there are so many unknowns. We trust each other and are willing to work with each other when the going gets tough.
I can forgive infidelity if it's not emotional or systematic. If it's a one night stand, or even multiple one night stands in a short period, I could get over it. I have three dealbreakers:
1. Abuse
2. Emotional/systematic long term infidelity
3. Addiction without remorse or desire to seek help.
That's it. Those are the only things that could break "forever."
@paula1248: So glad that you have found 'the one'!
@yanamari: I forgave cheating twice. You are right, worst mistake of my life.
@chasesgirl: Even I think so. The only problem is, when you are in an abusive relationship, for a long time you know something is wrong and you are feeling horrible, but you can't recognize it as abuse.
@Pokemon: I think that's a very healthy approach.
@AB Bride: That's another healthy approach, IMO.
@Bebealways: So it's ok to add a qualifier to forever?
@meetmethere2013: I agree.
@Aquababes: Honestly? Yeah, I think so. The notion of uncompromising forever is very romantic but for me, not 100% realistic. ALMOST 100%... but not quite.
Like the PP's I stand by forever (my vows) until his vows are broken and then I walk. That means cheating or abuse towards my son or myself. I think anything else we could work through but those issues can not be worked out. I hope it never comes to that, I feel terrible even typing it but he knows my limits and I trust he wouldn't push those limits.
I think you do mean forever when you get married. However, you cannot put your happiness in someone else's hands because you don't know what they will do next. I'm not in favor of divorcing for reasons like "We just don't get along anymore." If that is the case, that should be determined after both parties have exahusted all the resources available to make their marriage work. When it's a matter of one party abusing the other mentally or physically, then there is no forever, you have to get out of there. If your spouse cheated, then you have a choice, but it's not easy to stay or leave, there has to be a lot of healing. I don't think anyone gets married thinking that they will get divorced but things happen and people change.
There are two exceptions:
- Cheating
- Physical abuse
That's it.
I chose "forever, no exceptions" because "as long as the relationship is healthy" sounded like too many potential exceptions to me, and I'm also confident that neither of those two exceptions I listed will ever happen.
To add a clarification, because I think it didn't come out totally right: what I meant was not strictly in a wedding vow scenario, but more generally, when you promise to be with a man 'forever'. Mine was with my ex-fiance, and we broke up before marriage. But in my mind I had 'forever'.
The concept of "forever" is naive. People change. You can't possibly know what the future will bring. I'm all for sticking together through thick and thin but some things are just too much to handle. It makes me angry that there are women out there who will stay with their husbands regardless of what they do to them. Normally these are also the religious type who truly do feel that "forever" is forever and honestly, I have very little respect for that. These women are not doormats. They should have the strength and willpower to remove themselves from shitty situations but they don't because "god told them to stay". It's kind of pathetic.
I'm a child of divorce. My mother left my father after he developed substance abuse problems and made our lives hell. She knew better than to keep herself and her child in that situation. My mother did the absolute best thing for me. Had she stayed because she vowed "forever", our lives would have been very different. Women who find themselves in these situations need to think about their children (if they have them). They're not doing their kids any favors by forcing them to live in fear. Being a good mother should come before any vow of "forever".
I am very old fashioned, and I don't believe in divorce unless there is a really good reason (reasons being infidelity, abuse, serious violent criminal acts, etc). I was upfront with FI about this from the start. I just think too many couples end their marriage with divorce without really trying to fix the problems these days.
No judgment to those who feel differently; this is just my own personal opinion on how my marriage will work. Forever means forever to me.
@Puffthemagicdragon: There are so many offensive things in your post. I'll leave it at that.
@Aquababes: I am pledging forever because I am young in love and want my marriage to last forever.
Even to my ex-FI and long-term boyfriends I never ever said forever, I didn't believe in it for exactly the reasons you say.
But as naive as it may sound...this is forever, and I can't wait.
I have done the "when you know, you know" thing a few times lately...and here it is again :)
Sometimes forever doesn't feel like enough
EDIT: Cheating is a deal-breaker...we both know that. But I can't honestly ever see either of us cheating, it just isn't the way we are.
I think a pledge of "forever" means that you (general, not specific "you") would give the relationship every single effort possible, including speaking up for yourself about what is broken and making every effort to fix it. If, even after a concentrated and prolonged effort to fix it, it was still broken, then it's time to let go of "forever". "Forever" is never an excuse for physical violence or prolonged mistreatment of one's partner. A good partner will never take advantage of "forever" as a free pass to act like a douchebag.
@lovekiss: Thank you for sharing your point of view. You have made me look at things from a whole new perspective. You are right, forever is NOT a free pass to mistreat.
Thank you bees, for giving such amazing replies. I think there is something sensible about each and every post.
There are things I would not tolerate (infidelity and abuse of either my animals or myself being the main two, there would be others, but they'd have to be very serious).
As paula's friend put it though, if he ever did anything like that he would have broken his vows and I wouldn't continue to feel bound by mine in that case. I'd try with all I have to work through anything else, but if he cheated or became abusive, there'd be no going back from that.
I've thought about this before actually. Marriage was at first rather scary to me, because it means forever. I had nightmares about him murdering people (our friends specifically) and cheating on me, then feeling like I HAD to stay because I was bound to him, no matter what.
There's a quote from wuthering heights (my favourite book) that says something like 'nothing god or satan could have inflicted could have parted us, you of your own free will did it'. That's how I view cheating and abuse. If he does those things, he's choosing to part us, not me.
@Lovemelovemyhorses: Wuthering Heights...my favorite too! Great perspective, IMO.
I voted other, maybe it's because I'm an older Bee, I don't think in terms of forever about anything. It's just the nature of life.
My deal breakers are the three As: abuse, adultery, addiction.
I know the addiction one may sound harsh. Certainly, if he recognized the problem and seriously sought treatment, I would support him. But how often do addicts do that? He would need to make a choice between being wedded to his substance or to me.
Lucky for me, Mr. Sassy411 is low risk for any of the As. And I was with him for eight years before I agreed to marry him.
Well I would say that neither of us are naive that relationships end, and both of us do not believe in staying miserable just to stay together, but we both did commit to each other for the rest of our lives (well, he said eternity so I like to tease him he has no out even in death!)
However, for us that commitment to forever is not just passively letting time tick by and "not divorcing". With our promises to each other we also made commitments to actively nurture the relationship, to be responsible for our own emotions and happiness, to always communicate openly, to remain self-aware, to take time to connect, to always be honest, to seek third party help if we needed it and so on. So are we both committed to that forever? Yes, I believe so and we show it everday. Based on who we are as individuals and our relationship I do trust we will have a happy life together, however short or long that life may be. I honestly would not have married him if I did not trust our ability and commitment to a life together and to working through hard life experiences, neither of us take marriage lightly which is why we chose not to marry many partners before each other! We were committed to a life together before our vows were ever exchanged.
And...while we both are very committed to this life together and the mutual effort to remain connected & fulfilled through personal and relationship growth and change, we both do not believe in staying with someone where your relationship is empty, stagnated, abusive, disrespectful, dishonest, unconnected and so forth. We both have expectations for our relationship that are higher than just "no abuse and no affairs" but we are on the same page as that and put the effort in for that with intent it is forever. At the same time, I love my husband in a way that means if he could no longer be happy and living a life he wanted with me, I would want him to move on and vice versa. We both are children of divorce and have had common-law marriages end and do not believe ending things is always the worst thing...to me a lifetime of misery with a partner is far worse and not very loving to the other or yourself. For those involved in those situations close to us and ourselves, divorce or separation was a positive choice in the end.
When I said my marriage vows, I meant until death. I don't believe in being together afterwards, lol. But I also wouldn't stay physically living with someone who was abusive.
And I'd never pledge forever to a boyfriend. There are just too many things that can happen. I know people do it - but it's not for me.
ETA: I also wanted to say that I didn't mean the feelings would stay the same. I do believe it's unrealistic to feel "in love" with someone for your entire life. But you can love them (the action) and honor the vows you made for your entire life.
My FI and I both agree that forever for us means no matter what as long as there is no cheating or abuse (emotional, physical, neglect). Neither of us will tolerate either.
Of course nobody gets married with the intentions of getting divorced. But some things happen that really do require a person to say "enough is enough." We pledge forever with full, good intentions. Sometimes we even try to go to counseling to work out the issues. But then (as in my case with my ex husband) things didn't change, and I realized I don't deserve to be with a cheating asshole. I held up my end of the bargain, but he didn't. Not only that, but honestly, after 1-1/2 years of counseling, praying and soul searching, my heart could never get over the infidelities. I didn't want to live my life feeling like I had to be a detective. I turned into a person I didn't like (suspicious, angry, etc.). And you can't make a relationship work without trust.
So pledging forever doesn't give the other spouse an "out" for bad behavior ex: your ex saying "When I had enough and broke up with him, I had asked him once: "You did X,Y,Z to me and when you were doing that you never stopped to think what if I push her too far and she leaves me?" He said: "No, because you had promised forever."
You don't get a free pass to be a jerk because your spouse promised forever.
MrsWishyWashy: Like what? Don't call me out for being offensive and not back it up with some examples.
I voted for "as long as the relationship is healthy." BUT, when I say that I mean as in no one is being abused and no one has gotten cheated on-and even in cases of cheating I'd try to work through it first with all my might. Not loving the person anymore just because is unacceptable. If you think you might change later on and you might not love that person anymore in the future, or you're just not sure, then it's best to just not get married.
@starrynight: I agree with your statement on love, that was better said than what I was able to put together. It's not about being madly in love anymore, but it is about love and honor. Well said!
Like most PP, I would end it for abuse (emotional, physical, neglect) or cheating (more than once) or addiction (and consistently refusing treatment).
If someone has cheated or broken other vows with no regard for you, why are you required to uphold all of yours and put up with this behavior when they are not changing themselves? It's a two way street
I pledge forever with exceptions and he knows this and we both agree.
Exception 1:Cheating - You know what you can live with. I have heard of couples who have had a one time thing and were able to move past it. Some couldn't. I would be in the 'couldn't' category. I am Christian and even my God states that you can divorce for infidelity. That person has broken his vows. That person has put my health at risk. I would not be able to look past it. But, if someone decided to give it another shot, I won't judge you.
Exception 2: Abuse (any kind)Pretty self explanatory I think.
Everything else, and we will work through.
I'm a Mormon, so I do mean forever. ;)
(For those of you unfamiliar with LDS beliefs, we believe that if a couple is married, or later "sealed," in one of God's temples, they and their children will be together as a family for all eternity. In our ceremonies we do not say "till death do you part." We believe that the family unit is essential to mortal life as well as to post-mortal salvation - that's why we go crazy building temples all over the world, so all LDS members can have access to family sealings and temple marriages.)
The only exception I can think of is abuse, but I think I've done enough "background checking" to be unafraid of that with my FI. I'd even work through cheating, if he was willing to change his ways. I believe that temple marriages are nothing to be taken lightly - and especially that once children enter the equation, everything that can be done to preserve a marriage, should be done. At least for me and my marriage. :)
My FI and I are pledging "as long as we both shall live," but either one of us would leave if there was cheating or beating. That has been my rule since before I even had a boyfriend.
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