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So here is my situation, in short...I just turned 30. My boyfriend is a good bit older at 36, never married, but still not sure if he is ready to tie the knot. We have been dating for 3 years. We have an agreement that he will at least give me an answer, one way or the other, in a year.
This has left me wondering what I will do if the answer is 'no'? Do I stay with him and hope he changes his mind? Stay with him and accept that he probably won't, but choose him anyway? Even my mom has told me she thinks that if I really love him I should stay with him, that if it's really love I'd be happier with him and unmarried than married without him
But...as someone else mentioned in another post...it is like a Catch 22. I love the person who is committed to me, who values my happiness enough to make a few sacrifices, who is a mature adult that I respect. Yet if he is really edging closer to 40 and unable to do this for me, then, some of the qualities that make up the person I love seem like they come into question. And I have to ask, is he really the person I thought he was?
Or...am I being unfair? Is love love, no matter what, with or without a ring, and something you fight for at all costs? Can a wonderful, mature man who is willing to really take my needs into consideration still be a man who just can't get married, for whatever reason?
So what do other people think? If push came to shove, would you stay for the long haul without a ring, or move on?
Quick question - do you want kids? If so, would you have them with him without being married? Does he want kids?
Honestly, I would move on. He is committed to you, but can't make it legal? I would think if he was sure about this relationship, then he would want to marry you.
But guys are different sometimes. They don't think the way we do. What does he say his reason is?
Wow, thanks for the fast replies! He doesn't have a particular reason, when I ask him he just says he needs more time, and that 'lots of guys feel this way, it's totally normal.' Whatever 'this way' means!
As far as kids, it's the same thing. Maybe, maybe not. My thing is, though, since I am in school and can't have kids for another couple years, if I waited that long and then got a 'no' on kids, I would really be stuck, trying to start a new relationship with a guy who wanted to be a father in the couple of years left I had to get conceive! Unfortunately the timeline for kids is so limited for women!
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This is a tough one. I think you really need to get to the root of what his reasoning is. If he is unable to give you one, that would be a warning sign to me. Also, like you said, if he is willing to be with you, unmarried, forever (which I am assuming he is based on the way you wrote your post), what is stopping him from taking that last step, knowing how important it is to you? How does he feel about kids? I don't know your relationship, obviously, but he just seems a lot less serious than you do about this. And at 36 he should be more serious, if anything.
A lot of people make life long commitments (the gay community comes to mind) without marrying. If it's just the institution he opposes than its not necessarily a huge deal. If he isn't sure he can stay committed to you for the rest of his life, that's another story completely. I think you have a right to press him for a more detailed answer. If he can't verbalize it, perhaps he can write it down?
I think his uncertainty about children would bother me more than the whole not sure of marriage thing. You are correct to be concerned about your finite amount of time to have children. It's something all women need to take into consideration. Would you be ok not being a mother? Would you resent him if the decision was entirely his? Do you feel like the decision to be child-free is a decision you are making together?
I get the feeling from your post that if he wanted children, you would absolutely put that goal on your life timeline.
Personally, I couldn't be with anyone long term (married or not) who didn't want children. It's an absolute deal breaker for me. I would spend some time with yourself and really decide if you want to be a mother. If you do, you need to find a partner with the same life goals.
This is a really personal decision, and a very difficult one! It sounds like it would be good for you personally to sit down and think long and hard especially about the kids thing - whether or not it's important to you to be married if you choose to have them.
If my FI didn't want to marry me or didn't believe in marriage for whatever reason, I'd still stay with him. So I guess I side with your mom's opinion. Being with him overall is the most important thing to me, lacking the 'wife' title wouldn't be enough for me to leave. But that's just me, and I'm not particularly traditional anyway.
Overall, I also just want to say that just because someone doesn't want to marry doesn't mean they're incapable of being serious about a relationship. For as many valid reasons people have for wanting to marry, there are also valid reasons for not participating in the institution of marriage.
It's a hard choice but you'll figure out what makes you happiest in the end! Good luck!
I'd move on. Simply because if someone can't figure it out that they want me forever, then I feel like I could do better than that. I want kids and a family and someone who is committed to me, not someone who is only committed to me forever if he has the option to back out b/c there's no ring on my finger.
After 3 years, he should have figured it out by the age of 36. Who knows, maybe he never will? But the fact that he's in his mid 30's and STILL a committment phobe? Red flag for me.
Sorry, hun!
Thanks for all the thoughts! I would love to say he is a cutting edge artist who, although fully devoted to me, just doesn't believe in the institution of marriage as a whole, but unfortunately in his case that's really not it. It's just the usual fear of commitment, I think, which, again, he says is 'normal' for guys to go through - and I guess it is to a point, but seriously, at this age?
Which brings me back to...as much as I love him, if he isn't mature enough by this point to give up the bachelor lifestyle, well, it makes me see him in a different light I guess. And maybe that isn't fair, that's what I'm wondering.
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I think it's plenty fair for you to see him in a different light! He hasn't gotten to the level of maturity that you thought he would (at this point in your relationship and at his age) so I think it's perfectly "fair" of you to re-evaluate your relationship with him.
I think at this point, it seems fairly cut and dry. You want certain things from your life partner. He can either give them to you or not. I know that seems simplified but it really shouldn't be to complicated. I was with someone for a very long time when I finally realized that no matter how much we loved each other or how much fun we had with each other, we were Never going to have the same life goals.
What comes to my mind is this: there's fear of commitment, and then there's fear of commitment to you. I am worried that your guy knows that he doesn't want to marry you, but he is afraid to lose you (because losing someone always hurts) and he doesn't want to hurt you because he loves you, so he is putting off the inevitable by stalling with these excuses. Maybe he is hoping that he will change too and come around, but my guess is that in his heart he knows that he doesn't want to marry you.
If you give up your dream of marriage and family to be with him in a committed living together relationship, you will probably regret it. Marriage is more than just living under the same roof and having a joint bank account and having children together. You can technically do all these things without marriage but it's not the same. And if you do choose to do these things without marriage, what matters most is that both partners agree, and that's not the case for you. Even for gay couples who can't legally marry in many places, the partners in the most successful relationships probably agree that they would be married if they could (or conversely, that they would not be married even if they could). Legalities aside, agreement is key, and you two don't agree.
Given that, I don't see how this relationship can go forward happily. You'll either have given up your dream of marriage, or he will have made a commitment that he is not ready to make and that his heart is not in. You deserve to be with someone who can commit himself to you 100%. It can be a scary thing to get married (read some of Miss Cheese's posts) but what matter is that at the end of the day the desire to commit yourself to this person and your hopes and plans for the future outweigh the fears. If he can't give that to you, then I think it's just not meant to be.
So sorry you are having to deal with this. I have some thoughts about your situation. One thing you haven't mentioned is if you live with him, right now. Just curious. If you are, he is getting the "best of both worlds" now. You know the saying out there involving the words, cow -milk- free).
Personally, I couldn't stay with someone who wouldn't be willing to commit. But I need to disclose that I feel I'm a pretty religious person. So marriage is pretty important. I don't know where you stand on religion.
"But...as someone else mentioned in another post...it is like a Catch 22. I love the person who is committed to me, who values my happiness enough to make a few sacrifices, who is a mature adult that I respect. Yet if he is really edging closer to 40 and unable to do this for me, then, some of the qualities that make up the person I love seem like they come into question. And I have to ask, is he really the person I thought he was?" It doesn't seem like he's the person you were hoping he'd turn out to be. (Whether or not he is the person you thought he was.) You want marriage, if he does not... and if you are interested in kids, and he is, unenthused........ then you two don't have as much in common as you really need, to maintain being a couple.
Or...am I being unfair? Is love love, no matter what, with or without a ring, and something you fight for at all costs? Can a wonderful, mature man who is willing to really take my needs into consideration still be a man who just can't get married, for whatever reason? You aren't being unfair. You want what you want out of life. You shouldn't need to settle (which is what your mom is advising that you do.) Sure, love is love, but as the song goes, "Sometimes love just ain't enough." A lot of people who love each other, break up, because they are not on the same page, at the same time. If you stay with him, you will soon come to wonder what else might have been out there? Would you have met someone else, gotten married, and had kids? You will always be wondering. You won't truly be happy if you stay with him. You might feel safe, or grateful to have someone, but not really happy. (And therefore, also, frustrated, angry, resentful). I can understand if you're nervous that you might not find someone else, while you still have time to have kids. But if you stay with him, it's likely that you won't have kids anyway. (I think that is some of the fear your mom has. Not wanting you to be alone. "Being with someone who gives you 50% is better than being with no one =0%." The problem with that is that all you will get is 50%. You can't try for 100%, EVER.) And really, if you and your BF are meant to be together, in the end, I think you'd end up together again.
As for can men really not want to commit.. I think some men have issues with wanting to commit. I used to date someone whose parents got divorced when he was a teen, and felt that no matter how happy your marriage is, you can split up at any point. That was his perception of his parents' marriage. I guess guys can be against the institution of marriage, but I have a hard time wrapping my brain around that. I kind of wonder if they really are just scared of officially committing to one woman. I don't know if he's scared to commit to you specifically, or saying yes to one woman forever, regardless of who it is. But I'm not sure it matters. Either way, it is not the way you want to live your life.
Would you want to be sacraficing and giving your life to someone, who would feel uncomfortable being with you if he didn't have the freedom to dump you if "something better" comes along?
Good luck. I wish you nothing but happiness.
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I'd like to add a different perspective. I am American, but have been living in England for the past 5 years. I have SO many British and European friends and colleagues who are in long-term (we're talking 20 years!) co-habitating relationships with no desire or plan to marry. It seems to be much more culturally acceptable here and there's really no taboo against not getting married as long as you are committed to each other. I think you need to ask yourself whether you are taking his disinterest in getting married as a sign that he's not deeply committed to you, and also whether you highly value the legality of marriage. My personal answer is I would have stayed with my (now) husband if he hadn't wanted to get married, but I think it would have been difficult for me for awhile.
I have to agree with Chelseamorning. There would be a difference if he was telling you that he wanted to marry you at some point, but was not quite ready to take the plunge. If he was telling you this, then I would say that you can wait it out and figure out how long you could wait. It does not sound like that is the case here.
One of my best friends went through this about 4 years ago with her boyfriend of 2 years. She was I think 26 and he was 31. In her head, he was "the one" and she expected it was the same for him. We were graduating law school and she was going to move in with him. The topic of marriage came up and he told her he did not think he ever wanted to get married. She, on the other hand, wanted to be married and have children. I suspect they had not had many of these conversations previously.
Ultimately she ended up leaving him because she could not reconcile the fact that he loved her and was committed but could not commit to marriage. A year later she met a great guy and they are getting married in September.
I agree with others that you should try to find out from him whether it is the concept of marriage that is freaking him out or whether it is marriage to you. Once you have more information you will be in a better position to make a decision...
I think you're being completely fair. You can't compromise what YOU want in a relationship and should give him the same respect to his. If he isn't ready to be a committed loving husband, who's to say he will be in his 40's? Some people just don't do that kind of lifestyle. But if it's what you want, then you have to find someone who shares that feeling, too.
I asked my FI about the whole "fear of committment" thing awhile back. He was in his mid 20's. And he said it's more of an overwhelming thing of "forever" and wondering if you can meet her expectations forever (and a lot of it is self dobut whether or not YOU will be a good husband, not how much you love her) but eventually you realize that you love her so much that you can't not make that committment at some point if it's what both of you want, and that there is something beautiful and meaningful about making that committment public with a marriage.
I think it'd be one thing if you didn't care or didn't believe in the institution of marriage, also. But if YOU want to be married to him, again, step one I guess. Are you OK just living with someone forever? I wouldn't be.
after being with some unsatisfying relationships, I now know what I want, if a guy's needs do not correspond with mine I would move on; you deserve to have everything you want.
I am in a 2 year relaitonship and I'm only getting older, to be honest if my FI hadn't proposed I would have moved on because I want to have kids and don't want to wait til he makes up his mind, much as I care about him, I even told him after he proposed but never before-that only adds pressure. A guy is ghoing to want to be with you no matter what, no need to ask or put pressure, if he doesn't then move on. Luckily he felt tha same towards me and wants to be with me and have kids and said I'm the best girl he's been with, I feel the same towards him
So, I say you deserve everything you want, you can be madly in love with someone but if he doesn't coincide with your views ultimately you will be unhappy, I've been in love with 3 other guys in my whole life, but they did not have the same goals, did I love them yes, did it work out and was I happy? no
there should be no doubts
I currently live in Italy, and here too committed relationships without marriage are more common - I live with a family and my host "parents" are not married but in a long term committed relationship and have a daughter.
That said, American culture isn't like that, and you want what you want. The unmarried scenario only works if both parties are truly okay with it, and it sounds like you may not be. You deserve to have what you really do want. Good luck!
I think it depends on what you want. If marriage is an important part of an adult, comitted and loving relationship then it's OK to move on. If you only want to get married because you think this is the "right" next step (which I doubt) then you could probably keep him. YOU deserve to be happy and considered too <3
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Without going into too much detail, keep in mind that marriage in the U.S. brings with it numerous *legal* benefits. The law views the relationship between two people who are married very differently from how it views the relationship between two people who are not. That's one of the many reasons that the gay community is pushing for gay marriage - it's not just about the emotional aspects of marriage, it's about legal protections, shared benefits, next-of-kin rights, etc. Marriage suddenly means a lot when your SO is lying in a coma after a car accident and the nurse is asking his crazy mother what she as next-of-kin wants to do in regards to his care.
Yes, you can replicate a fair amount of this with a good lawyer and careful policies and decisions, and (IMHO) someone who has a genuine philosophical objection to marriage *in general* should be more than willing to take an active role in carrying out this replication to protect himself/herself and the person that he/she loves. (Whereas someone who's just claiming to be opposed to marriage in general but is really just lazy, scared or not in love with the other person is probably going to respond, "You want me to do *what* and sign *what*?") That's time-consuming and somewhat expensive, but it is possible. But this is why I roll my eyes so hard at people who try to tell me that "marriage is just a piece of paper." Every contract is "just a piece of paper." Those "pieces of paper" have immense legal force.
Not saying you should dump the guy if he won't marry you, just that the situation is more complicated than a straightforward "Does he really love me?" inquiry.
My bestest friend met her man when she was 21. She is a very independent woman. They dated for 3 years, then he wanted to move in together, she said No.
They broke up for 6 months. (it broke my heart because I had met him & saw how much he loved her).
I didn't question her when she told me, she said they needed time alone...I started dating a guy...she got back together with him.
She would always ask me, when are you & T getting married? I would laugh & say when you & G get married, THEN we'll get married.
T & I broke up after 4 yrs, I wanted marraige, he was "wishy-washy" it BROKE my heart and my spirit.
I thought I would be single for the rest of my life because I would never love someone as much as I had loved him.
Meantime, my BFF got married....BEST WEDDING EVER...they decided it was time to have kids & were going to be together forever anyways so why not get married.
They are now married for 6 years with 2 beautiful children and are sooo happy.
It took me a few years (& another icky relationship) to meet the man of my dreams, a man who was QUITE straightforward from the get-go that what he was looking for was not someone just to date, he was looking for a future wife & mother of his children.
My ex was "undecided" from day-to-day, I used to think he'd get over it and have some kind of epiphany and BOOM we'd get married.
To this day, he's still not married or in a strong relationship. Meanwhile, I have found the man that I believe God meant for me.
If he doesn't want to commit, and you're okay with that, then that's going to be fine. However, if you want that commitment and he's not there with you, you are never going to be truly happy. Don't sell yourself short. I know it's hard to believe, BUT there is someone else out there who would make you happy, who you would fall head over heels with, and who wants what you want.
I think he is being pretty honest with you in that he is not likely to be a guy to make a long term commitment to you or to having a child with you. If you are ok with being with someone uncomfortable to committing to you (vs. the institution of marriage), then that is your call. BUT at age 36 after dating your for 3 years, he really should know by now if you are the one or not. If you want lifelong commitment & kids, I would move on. I am pretty sure a year will go by, and the only thing that will have changed is that you will be a year older....
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I'd have a talk with him about it..then see what he says. Let this talk sink in for say six months and see what happens. Or a year at most. If no action by the date you choose, walk.
Flashback alert...I was in your shoes once...
I am 29, and when I was 23 I met someone who was 8 years older than me and we moved pretty fast. Moved in togethor after a few months of dating and he told me he wanted to get married and have kids. Then his friends starting having trouble in their marriages and started to have kids as well and well, the wuss that he was changed his mind one day on me and asked if I never wanted to get married or never have kids was ok. I was stunned! I came from a very broken family and all I wanted to do was have a family and be married. Marriage was important to me because when you are not you have to look at financial, legal issues etc. He would not put my name on the lease or anything to that matter so if I stayed I had no right to anything. In the long run I was not going to sacrifice what I have always dreamed of and come to find out that was the best decision I made.
What I am having trouble with your post and I take it from my experience is how can a 36 year old adult male not know what he wants out of life at this point? That is ridiculous! I dont remeber if you said how long you have been togethor but why would you invest the time if that person is not sure what he wants out of life? If you truly want to get married or have kids, and you really need to step back and think if this is something you really want, than you need to walk away. I almost stayed and would have wasted my time but I beleive in fate and I beleive it was Gods way of saying he was not the one for me because I took the next year really soul searching what I wanted out of life and a mate and then I met my now FI a little over a year after the split.
It ultimately is a personal decision but you have to look at what you want and some times you need to think about more what you want. BUt if you truly think he is the one and you want to spend your life with no matter what then go for it, but remeber your post if a few years down the road you change your mind.
Good luck!
I have to agree, at your boyfriend's age, it doesn't seem like he should be in the "I don't know what I want stage."
I also have to admit that when my fiance and I first started dating I told him I was never getting married again. However, I had just gone through a horrible breakup and even worse time trying to save my marriage that was unsavable. We started dating about a year and a half after my ex-husband and I split. He is also much younger than me (about 8 yrs) and he was the one that would bring up marriage. I in no way got coerced in to it. We went through the norm, living together, joining our bank accounts even buying a house. He has also helped me raise my two boys. We've been together for 6 yrs now and I'd say by the 3rd year I deeply regretted saying I did not want to get married again because the truth was I knew I would spend the rest of my life with him or that I WANTED to. We've been engaged for 1yr 8 mos.
In your situation, I would wonder if his uncertainty is really fear of commitment or fear of commitment to me? Is he unsure because he is waiting for something "better" to come along? (Sorry if this sounds crude)
This is going to be a very hard decision for you. I think you need to look at it in the sense of the health of your relationship. Is the relationship healthy? If things are great and you yourself want to be with him because you love him and for you this guy is it and he treats you great and his indecision about marriage and children is the only thing holding you back from knowing you will have the perfect ife together, than ya, I'd say wait the year and see what his answer is. But, if it is a relationship of convenience and you feel like you have to make this work because your time is running out, then I think the best thing would be to walk away. I've seen a few of those and they have not worked out well.
The bottom line is many people are married and the only way you'd know is because they share a last name and have a marriage certificate. There are many other factors that go in to being "married". If he's not ready for that you may find yourself living an unhappy life down the road.
I hope I didn't sound too cynical. LOL Good luck to you in making your decision! Whatever you decide just stick to your guns and don't look back. 
I know of only one very unhappily married people (she is the x friend I had to fire, the one who reminds me of Kate from Jon n Kate btw) and he's miserable b/c she's a chronic nagger. Most every other couple I know is actively involved in their marriage. Happy too!~
There is a big difference between dating and marriage or living together and marriage. It's that RELUCTANCE TO GO ONE STEP FURTHER..and that to me speaks volumes. It says to me "I love you alot, but not to get married". Some say there's little difference b/w those two states. I say there is a difference.
I had a former coworker who lived with her BF of 5 years. She would always say that there was "no difference in them being married or not" but the truth of the matter was he had never asked her and it DID bother her. They broke up before their sixth anniversary of dating or living together btw.
And this is only my opinion.
And yes, I have a clock on things with myself too..
Honey, I lived with my EX-sig other for over 20 years. Yeah I loved him but he never committed to marry. Now that it is over and I am soon to marry a most excellent man, I can tell you that I was in that old relationship way too long. We shared a home and holidays and the like, but now that I am in a truly committed relationship, I can see the difference. With my h2b, we share dreams and have plans, I truly feel like part of a couple.
So what happened to my ex? Well a few years ago, he started going out twice a week to blues music gigs - with my blessing I might add. Then it was 3, then 4, then every night. Yep, you guessed it, he took up with a bar skank and dumped me!
Every situation is different. Is your man really committed to being a couple, married or not? Then maybe it's ok to stick it out. But do NOT make the same mistake I did and waste decades of your life just because you are reluctant to move on...
To me, it appears you've almost answered your question. If he says he'll tell you either way within a year that he wants to marry you or he doesn't want to marry you, then you'll have your answer. I think if you love him enough, you can give that to him. In a way it's an ultimatum, but it will give you peace of mind to know you'll be able to move on either way.
Good luck!
Thanks for all the kind words of advice everyone. I have actually come to the decision, at least 80% sure, that I will move on next year if his answer is 'no'. I did ask him to be totally honest with me and tell me if he's already made up his mind and he says he does want to get married but needs more time. I hope that is true.
It's kind of an awful, icky feeling looking at someone with the full realization that your 'goodbye' date may already be set. It makes it hard not to be in the relationship with 'one foot out the door' so to speak, but I am doing my best to give this last year the fullest chance.
yeah it's an icky feeling, that's why most women would leave instead of waiting for him to leave them. his answer is no now, why would it change to yes next year?
I think you should stick it out. You have to look at what type of family he has come from and if he has seen all of his friends get divorced, etc. My FI wasn't ever sure if he wanted to get married, he just sees it as a big waste of money. But his family is kinda......... untraditional. His mom and dad were married to other people, but never married each other and are still together. His sister and brother-in-law are now getting a divorce, one of his brother's has gotten a divorce, the other one never married, his other sister got a divorce. He has seen how much trouble divorces are, not only to the two people involved, but to the kids as well, but has never seen any that really work. Well with the exception of one of his brother's.
In my opinion, as long as you don't think its wrong to have a family and go about living life as you would if you were married, then do it.
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Hello! Sorry to hear you are in this tough situation. Believe me, it will get better and life will go on.
Clearly, you want to get married. Otherwise you would not have posted this! If you decide to give up that dream to be with this guy, try to imagine what that will feel like. Might you feel a bit of resentment that never goes away? Will you wonder, "why didn't this guy marry me?" I would not want to live with those feelings, but that is me -- it can be hard for me to let go of doubts like that. But it is possible you are more emotionally mature than I am :)
I was in the opposite situation. Everyone is different, but I will just tell you my take. I was with someone four years, having doubts about our relationship that I suppressed for probably 3.5 years. All the while I went along with the eventual-marriage talk, even though when I thought about the actual wedding I got so stressed that I felt ill. But it was SO HARD to let go of that relationship, because I did love the guy and did not want to hurt his feelings or make a mistake in case I might somehow be OK with marrying him at some point. Could this be what is happening with your guy?
P.S. After we finally ended, I resolved never to be with someone for so long without being "sure." I met my husband 5 months later and I KNEW! He took a bit longer but soon he did, too. We married after dating 1.5 years.
When I was your age (oh Lord, I sound like my mother), I was also in a long-term relationship with a man about 35. I loved him, absolutely, but our life goals were just not the same. Our priorities were not the same. He was still basically an emotional adolescent (and still is, from what I hear). It was terribly hard but I chose to walk away. I am 41 now and my FH did not require any prompting from me to propose. He and I have wanted the same things from the start. Having found both love and this shared life's purpose, I am glad I decided not to settle for what I could get.
So in summary: Love is wonderful. Love is very compelling. It is absolutely necessary for a successful relationship. But it is just not enough to make a successful relationship. Don't cheat yourself.
I wish you all the best, whatever you decide.
Perfect Example of this is my aunt and her boyfriend (technically). My aunt was divorced once before and decided that she never wanted to be married again. I know that your guy has never been married but the relation here is that marriage just isn't something either of them wanted. Anyway - she met this guy shortly after and they have been together for 30 years and he is not really her husband. Her kids (she had 4 with her ex-husband) call him dad, the grandkids call him papa, and everyone basically considers them a married couple though they have no piece of paper saying otherwise. I've always considered him my uncle and dont think I knew any differently until I was in my teens. No one looks at them as just "boyfriend and girlfriend".
They are one of the happiest couples I know. If you are in love, your happy, and it works than there is no reason to push it. Let it be.
OK....I would love to make this post sound eloquent, but I'm at work and shouldn't even be on here so I am in a rush!! 
What I can tell you is my own situation. I just turned 30 years old and my boyfriend just turned 38 this past May. He has never been married. Never even been engaged and never even lived with another girl before me.
He and I have been together for almost SIX YEARS and living together for 5-1/2 of them. We are NOT engaged.
When we hit the three year mark, he was 35, and I was wondering the same thing you are now because he told me that he wasn't sure he ever wanted to be married. It was SO SO hurtful to me, and I was just as confused as you are now because I, also, demanded an answer by the 4th year. So the 4th year came, and he could not give me a yes or no. He could only tell me that he still was not sure, but that he knew he wanted to be with me and just didn't know yet if he could handle everything that marriage entails. To me, it felt like a complete cop-out. Although I wanted so badly to leave him right then and there for doing this to me, I stayed because the thought of not being with this man who loves me so much was more than I could handle. It was even worse than him not knowing if he wanted to marry me.
Then, right around the 4-1/2 year mark, he started talking about marriage more positively. He still couldn't say the word - haha - but he would say things like "the next step" or "moving forward." It got on my nerves, because I couldn't believe that he couldn't even say MARRIED. BUT, in his own way, he was making progress. Let me tell you, my boyfriend comes from a family of no divorces, he has a happily married older brother, and he had always wanted to get married because he had told me that before we became serious. I think it was the REALITY of what a REAL relationship takes that made him realize it was more than just rainbows and butterflies all the time, and that made him afraid, despite his very strong love for me. So anyway. He couldn't say the word marriage, but I could feel slight progress. At this point, our friends and family were also teasing us a lot (and rightly so) and so it became more comfortable for him, I think. I decided not to push him like I always had in the past, even though I was struggling internally.
On our actual 5 year anniversary, we moved to a different State. We were in a good place in our relationship but I still didn't have a yes or no answer as to the marriage thing, and I was going insane! I could not believe I had let him get away with this for so long, but again, the idea of leaving him was torture. I knew that we were meant for each other.
Well, guess what? Not one week later, we were sitting in our new apartment and he made a comment about "when we get married." It was totally random. I looked at him and I said kind of sarcastically, "oh so now you want to marry me?" and he took my hand and looked me straight in the eye and got serious, and he said "babe, I would love to marry you." Well, I can't believe I survived the shock of that moment! It has been 10 months since. We are still not engaged, but sadly, it's only because of monetary reasons. We have had so many talks since then about how to move forward. I will say that the economy has not been kind to us, so it's tough. But the good news is that now we both know what we want FOR SURE, we are SO happy (and always were aside from this issue) and we are hoping to get married in June 2010.
All in all, it's not a fairytale, but it's our fairytale and I really do feel so blessed with how this has turned out. I feel like an adult. Kind of like Carrie and Big in the SATC movie when she says "we are two adults who made the decision to get married because we want to." I do still expect a proposal, and he knows that, but I've made it easy on him and told him I don't need a ring. With the money situation, if I have to choose between a ring or a wedding, I'd rather have the wedding!!! I think he's still trying to get a ring, though, which is sweet. :)
I guess my advice to you is to follow your heart. Don't leave him over it if your heart can't bear to. Don't listen to the friends or family who tell you to give him an ultimatum. This is YOUR relationship and only you and him know if you're love is strong enough and passionate enough to keep going. Try not to focus on your ages or the years you have been together - just focus on what you have and it works itself out. That's what I eventually realized. if I had left after three years, or four years, or even right at the fifth, (because I was mad enough to!) I would have missed out on what we have now, and that would be a shame because it's even sweeter than I thought it would be after that wait. Trust me, I wasn't sure there was a light at the end of the tunnel, but it sounds like you're sailing on the same waters I was and if you keep paddling, you'll reach the shore!
A.) I sort of think Chelsea hit the nail on the head. Is it fear of commitment or fear of commitment to you? There's nothing worse than wasting the rest of your child bearing years waiting for an answer to that question. Always wondering his real reasons for not fully commiting to you, even though they could be completely inoffensive and genuine.
B.) At the same time, I don't think one more year is terribly long to wait. My sister dated her guy for SIX years and had a one year old before he finally gave her a ring, and I'm so sure they are going to make it.
C.) If you talk about it again before your one year thingy, which I'm sure you wont be able to resist doing in spite of your best efforts, put it to him this way (and this is what I said to my FI a few months before he decided to pick out a ring with me), I said, "do you know what an awful feeling it is to think that after all this time you still aren't sure how you feel about me? You know me, you know everything about me, thats not going to change in another year, or another three years, so it's kind of either you want ME or you dont." Now, I was in no way giving him an ultimatum. He knew that, I knew that. I was simply pointing out how after a long time, how easy it is to start feeling "not good enough," unless provided with some other convincing reason for waiting on marriage.
Just my two cents.
Well, you certainly posted this in a particularly pro-marriage place! If you'd posted somewhere else you might have gotten answers that go in a different direction.
I spent many years denying that I ever wanted to be married, because I was afraid of the risk of admitting that, and I ended up with -- guess who -- guys who didn't want to be married or were afraid of it. I think it's great that you know what you want and are willing to take the risk to discuss it with your boyfriend. I think that "icky feeling" you describe is your gut instinct. It is horrible and sad to be in this situation, and I'm sorry.
I disagree with those who say, "If you're both fine with it, there's nothing to worry about." You posted this, and in Weddingbee no less! So we can safely assume that this bothers you, and I think that is perfectly fair. I fully disclose that I tend to be hard on guys who want a woman to be everything to him that a wife would -- except be his wife.
Commitment is scary. It's supposed to be! But it's what you do with that fear that counts. There are lots of valid reasons for wanting to be married, and there are valid reasons for wanting to be with someone, but never marry them.
But there are specific issues at work when someone who doesn't want to be married ends up with someone who does. In the next year, I would think hard about these things so that, if there isn't a proposal in your future, you can move on to someone who meets your needs exactly.
I think something important to keep in mind is that not everyone makes their decision to commit to marriage at the same time. One person in a relationship might know right away, while it may take the other a bit longer. Has he said that he never wants to get married? Or just not yet/right now? There is a big difference.
DH and I dated 5.5 years before he was ready to commit to me in marriage. It took me only 2 years to know. But I come from a long line of successful, healthy marriages. DH comes from a long line of broken/messed up/drama filled divorces. He was understandably reluctant. I thought about moving on around the 5 year mark. But I never gave him an ultimatum. Fortunately I didn't have to. When i (finally) finished school, finished the bar exam and got sworn in - he proposed. He told me later that he had waited for me to finish all of that "important stuff" so that we could just focus on our wedding and marriage and avoid distracting me. I love this man! It was SOOOo worth the wait!
Everyone's situation is different. Only you know the full story. It's a tough decision - but just make sure it's not a hasty one...
bags.jpg (64.2 KB, 47 downloads) 1 year old
I went through this, and I moved on, it was hard, but I am so glad that I did. I am with someone who wants the same things as me and I am so much happier. My ex-boyfriend is not going to change anytime soon. I still love and appreciate him but don't feel I need to be in an exclusive relationship with him and wait to see how he feels. I am marrying a wonderful man this September now and I am so happy. I took a chance and it was great! You could always just say to your boyfriend that you want to date other people and that you know you want to get married so you might find someone who also knows this too. You can continue to date him too. Sounds so simple yet that's so challenging at times. When people were virgins till they were married, that was easier to pull off. Now with diseases, emotional connections, intimacy, it's a little harder, but not impossible!
Good luck. Nothing anyone says can tell you what you want and what feels right in your heart but you.
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