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So I'll spare you the details about how I'm a regular blogger here, posting anonymously blah blah blah. This happens all the time. Girls get sad, and do just what I'm doing now.
Background:
My boyfriend is amazing. He is sweet and wonderful. He brings me flowers all the time, and cooks me dinner and loves me so much. He is nuts about me. He is the first man in my life that I have ever felt like really "got" me. Like, he truly understands the essence of me-- not the girl who is all dressed up to go to dinner, but he loves me in my PJs, and he gets my stupid sense of humor, and he LOVES me so much. I love him too. He is my best best friend. I've never felt the way about anyone that I do about him. We live together, and have been dating a little over a year. We have talked marriage from very early on, and he has bought me an engagement ring (no proposal yet). The engagement is currently ON HOLD, as is the rest of the relationship, frankly.
Why? Well because last week he sprung some news on me that I wasn't prepared for. I've known all along how finanically irresponsible he was beore he met me. I knew he had debt, and I knew he had a car reposession. He was married before and blamed a lot of this on his previous relationship.
He would tell me vague things like "I think I owe about $1000 to my old college" (he never finished school). He never had concrete figures. So we fought about this issue continually, I would cry and say I didn't understand how he could be so irresponsible, he would promise to get a second job. He would do something IN THE MOMENT to satisfy me (like fill out an online application for a second job) and then never go apply.
So last week we got in another fight about his finances and he blurts out "Well I haven't had the money since they started taking it out of my paycheck to pay back my college"
Um. WHAT?
He says: "Yeah they started taking it out of my paycheck"
We are talking wage garnishment here folks. What happens to people when they are SUCH deadbeats that the GOVERNMENT starts taking away their paychecks. So I told him I wanted exact figures on everything he owed (down to dollars and cents). The next day he called the companies and told me.
The "$1000" he owed to a jeweler for his ex wifes ring? Now $3400 because it has been in collections for THREE YEARS.
Also his tuition is more like $4000.
So I cried again, and we fought again and I told him I wanted him to move out because I just didn't think I could deal with it. H eleft his credit report open on my laptop last night by accident and I saw TWO MORE debts he never told me about ($1400 to his old apartment complex, and $600 to a cell phone company).
He said he has "no idea" what the apartment charge is about. Who does that? Who gets charged $1400 and NEVER looks into it to figure out why????
I'm sorry this is so long, I just really need help. He is a great love for me. He is my whole world. He has a great job that he has had for 8 years and makes good money at, he pays the rent on time (usually) and keeps up with bills here at our place. I have never had to loan him money. I want to make it clear that I'm NOT supporting him in any way. But I am terrified that his attitude towards money is too ingrained to ever change (he is 28). I don't want to not be able to get a mortgage or a car loan or those types of things because of his irresponsibility. I wonder if I wasn't here bitching at him 24/7 to address these issues, would he address them at all? What will make him realize I'm serious?
So I've asked him to move out, because it's impossible for me to get any distance from the relationship with him here. He has a job interview today for a second job. He has called Consumer Credit Counseling.
My question is: would you give him another chance? If so, how much of one? Should I break up with him for awhile and see how much he can get it together? Should I just back off from the relationship but continue to see him? What kind of deadline would you give him?
I'm moving to another city in August with or without him. I feel betrayed, and so hopeless. This is the man that I thought was The One. I love him with my whole heart, but I know that money is the #1 reason people get divorced. Do I walk away from someone I love like this because he doesn't ever get serious about his finances?
The kicker? His credit score is a 470. Let that sink in for you. If I stay with him, I am dooming myself to a lifetime of never having the things I want (a home, a nicer car, property, etc).
Ladies, please bump this thread if you can. I need lots of advice.
Yes, money and financial responsibility is important. However, I think you're being more than a little harsh. If this man is the LOVE OF YOUR LIFE and you were ready to marry him before this whole situation, don't you think this relationship is worth fighting for? Is someone's credit score really more important than how they treat you and how you feel about being with them?
That being said, if you love him, you should stick by him and help him through this. Is it possible that he didn't know about some of these debts? Perhaps he didn't mean to decieve you, or he felt completely embarassed and helpless against his debt issues. Can you sit down with him and plan out a budget for him that would allow him extra money each week to put toward his debt? You could make a budget for yourself too, to show him you support him. Make a reasonable goal when this debt can be paid off by, and plan a reward at the end of it, for him, or for both of you.
I wouldn't get married until you sort this out, and I would definitly keep your accounts seperate until he can prove that he's handling his money like an adult and not a teenager.
Finances are a seriously concerning sisue in a relationship. They are the source of many fights, strains, stresses, and tensions.
I do not necessarily think his situation requires a breakup, unless you are seriously concerned that this is a pattern he isn't willing to change. I think you were right to take a step back, and that he was was wrong to be dishonest with you about the specifics of his financial state.
He needs some serious help to get back on track, and it's good that's he's taking some intiative. I would keep things at arm's length while you observe if he's making some real changes. Then step back in slowly and go to financial counseling together to talk about what your situation would be like if you get married.
Ultimately, it's your life, your finances, your credit score in jeopardy and only you really know him!
I hope for both your sakes that he gets it together and takes things seriously. If you don't see it coming, it's a very large red flag that is worth ending things over.
I think a major issue here is the fact that he has lied to you/deceived you about the state of his finances and credit score, etc. Maybe this is because he feared you would leave him if you knew about these things because things like house, car, etc are important to you. I do agree, though, that if he is truly the love of your life, you should try to stick it out and help him through this. Granted, he needs to take responsibility for this debt, but I like the PP's idea of sitting down and helping him with a budget and a plan for getting out of debt. It seems like he very much needs help doing these things because he is clearly incapable of doing it on his own.
It's a really bad situation and I'm so sorry you're dealing with this, but I think that at least for now you should try to help him even though you are angry. You're right to think about your future and what you ultimately want out of life, but in the here and now you love this man and he needs your help.
I agree with SaraNightly as far as if he is the love of your life, he is more likely than not, worth fighting for. At the same time, this guy needs to learn some financial lessons, STAT. When you get married, his debts are then tied to you too. If he starts getting more financially irresponsible than he has been already, then you're going down with it too. I would say you should both sit down with his credit report and those bills and figure a way out of this. Credit counseling may help, but another way is to literally sit down with EVERY DEBT and look at the ones with the highest interest rates. Pay those down as quickly as you can (pay more than minimums even if it's a few dollars more - pay minimums on everything else until the first one with the highest APR is paid off). Once you start getting debts paid off, take the money you would have paid on those and apply it to the next highest APR debt. You keep snowballing the money you would have paid on the other debts, to the rest of the debts one at a time and pay them all off. I swear, this works. Also, if some of it is credit cards you may be able to get a credit card consolidation through one of them with a decent rate and pay it down quicker that way. This is definitely an issue you both need to be crystal clear on before you walk down the aisle. My 2 cents!
Bon Chance,
Bella
I was in a similar situation. Maybe not as drastic (there was no wage garnishment involved) but similar all the same.
When I met FI (a long time ago) he seemed to have resources to do whatever. Took me out to dinner, bought me gifts, etc. I never really questioned it because I figured he had the money. We didn't know each other too well then and it wasn't really my business.
Things were going fine for a long time and I didn't think he was overly spending...until he bought a new truck. This truck seemed to definitely be over his income level. Also it got about 11 miles to the gallon. My suspicions started to arise. (We'd been together about a year at this point)
One day, he broke down and it all came out. He couldn't afford the truck. He was late on the payments and was charging everything else in his life because all he could really pay for was his rent and (barely) the car payments. The credit card situation -- astronomical. $40K+ in debt, including a loan that he took out to pay credit cards he couldn't afford. So he was in possession of a $25K truck and $40K in credit card debt.
I almost left him. I couldn't deal with it. I was only 21 at the time and headed for a good career and a good life. I couldn't look at my future of financial ruin with him.
I talked to my parents (he would never tell his parents -- they still don't know) and we sat down with him. My mom convinced him to get into credit counseling. We worked on a budget. He exchanged the truck for a car lease. I did everything I could. I helped him go grocery shopping to save money. We sold what belongings of his that we could. For six years, we've struggled at times, even though we both make good salaries. We've eaten Ramen while my co-workers ate at Morimoto.
He's paid the credit counseling service every month for the last six years. Next April, it will be paid off. Will he admit now that he was incredibly irresponsible and stupid? Yes. Would I stick by him through it again? I would. It's been hard, but we've done it together. His credit score has gotten better although we still rely on mine. We don't use credit cards except for emergencies and make an immediate plan to pay the bill. We make a budget every week. It's been hard, but we're moving forward.
Anyway, I'm obviously feeling particularly open today because I've barely shared this story with anyone else. Only you can make the decision whether to stick by him...just sharing my experience. Please feel free to PM me.
I would give him another chance. It doesn't matter why he turns it around (if you think he is only even starting to address it because of you, it only means you're a good influence on him) as long as he turns it around. But I would definitely not move forward towards marriage until he does. Let him talk to the Consumer Credit Counseling people (whoever they are... and make sure he knows this before following their advice) and come up with a plan. It won't take him that long to get his credit back into decent territory if he makes payment plans for his debt and starts paying it back--on time, every time, from now on.
And then... just see where it goes. Keep your finances separate for a long time (but have open discussions about it), and see what can be saved.
((Hugs!!)) It is definitely hard to see someone that you love in a tough situation that they are obviously uncomfortable with and probably embarrassed about (otherwise he would have told you!).
I would recommend seeing a debt counselor together if you plan on staying together. Are you willing to help him pay his debt off? Because if you want to get married, that is going to be your responsibility as a spouse, whether you help support him financially or by helping him make better financial decisions and stay on track with his bills.
Honestly, this is something that can easily be a dealbreaker if he's not willing to change (IMO). You're smart to wonder how this will affect your life down the road. Although going to debt counseling can help him, it can also hurt your ability to qualify for a mortgage over the next 5 years.
Also, your relationship will change as you age and work towards common goals. I think you need to have a sit-down and lay out the goals that you have as an individual (house, family, career, education, etc), and talk about whether he will be able and willing to work with you towards meeting those goals.
Best of luck girl, but remember that your happiness in 10 years should be taken into consideration!!
You have to ask yourself if you are willing to take on the finances for the both of you - forever. It doesn't sounds like he's a deadbeat and unwilling to work - he just really sucks at managing money. Is he irresponsible in other areas? If not, I think this is something you could overcome - you just need to be willing to take it on (and not be bitter about it in the long run). My FI was very bad with finances and made some poor decisions (I don't even want to know his credit score) - to me, the decisions he made would have been no brainers to NOT do... but he just didn't see them that way. I recently helped him get on track with a financial plan that made sense. If you aren't good with money - and you move forward with the relationship - I'd suggest talking to a financial planner to help you guys get on track. It's not impossible, but know you'll likely be the one 'in charge' of getting his finances back together until he starts learning responsible behavior.
Obviously, to each their own, but I would NOT give him a second chance. I would view this as a huge gift that you found out before you were legally responsible for his money troubles. Seriously. Finances are the NUMBER ONE PROBLEM in marriages, and that's just normal couples with normal money issues. I don't mean to be harsh, but I think you are setting yourself for a life of stress if you still marry him. Not to say that you can't marry people who are in debt! Just that he was so dishonest about it, or worse yet, didn't know the gravity of his own situation. Scary. And I'm really really sorry for you.
I agree that you guys maybe need some financial counseling to discuss the current standings of his past finances (yours as well) and discuss how you guys are going to handle your finances as married couple. Yes a credit score of 470 is bad and yes he should have checked his credit before and figured out what those charges are. However, I agree that if he is really THE ONE then you love him including his baggage.
Also, the government probably garnished his wages becaues it has to do with education. It's not that its a horrible thing (well it is) but it is just because the student loan and/or non-paid tuition is like not paying your taxes since it deals with the government.
Also, just because he has a low credit score doesn't mean that you will never buy a house and/or car. I needed a 720 to do a convential loan, but there are also FHA (government loans) that accept much lower credit scores.
While this obviously is the nightmare you hate to have to deal with, I think the couple thousand here and there isn't the end of the world. Especially if he has a good paying job right now and a strong career and would be willing to work a second job to help pay for all of the bills.
Again, I think financial counseling would be helpful not only to mend the situation in now, but also to determine how you guys TOGETHER can have a strong financial future and marriage.
Just about a year ago my FI went through a disastrously horrible four months. My friends thought I was nuts to stick by him but it was during that time that I realized that usually when things get tough I bail, but with him I wanted to work through it together. He was the first guy I ever felt was worth the "sickness....and poorer" of the commitment. A year later things are amazingly better and I have no regrets. You have a lot to reflect on. Feel free to PM if you need an ear.
I think you're definitely doing the right thing by taking a step back. Also, it is certainly the responsible thing to do. If you guys get married, your finances will merge, and it will be terrible for both of you if he continues to act financially irresponsible. On a side note, I may be biased b/c my finance's parents ultimately divorced due to the fact that they argued all the time over money issues, and their very different approaches to their finances.
I think your relationship *might* deserve another shot, but only if he can make some serious changes in how he handles his finances. Also, if he makes some changes, you need to be sure that those changes are going to stick. Probably he should talk to a financial planner to put together a strategy for paying off his date (and saving up some money thereafter). Also, you guys might benefit from some couples counseling.
My fiance had A LOT of debt when we first started dating, but it was basically due to the fact that his parents didn't support him *at all* financially when he was in college, and so he had to take on debt to finish his schooling. The difference was that he was working hard on paying everything off, and he had a financial strategy to get that done. B/c I knew he was being responsible with his money and paying off his debt, I was much more comfortable taking our relationship to the next step and deciding to get married.
Hope this helps. I just want you to know that you really are doing the right thing here, and I can only image how hard it has been to call things off for the time being. I hope he learns how to handle his money so that you guys can continue with your relationship. Other than the money issues he sounds really great.
To add to my previous response - I think that if you try to help him and he keeps on acting irresponsible with his fiances, or refuses to reform, it is a reason to walk away. I was just saying that if you really love him, you should at least try to help him help himself before giving up the relationship completely.
If this was me, as long as he stepped up and was responsible about things, I would definitely stay. Money is a really difficult topic for some people. They hide what is really going on because they are embarrassed and don't want people to know their real situation.
Hotchild gave you some really good advice!
Also I would like to point out (as I've noticed people have said it here and on other threads), debt in one person's name does NOT become "your debt" if you marry them. Only if your name is on whatever the debt is in relation to (e.g. a mortgage, a loan etc) is the debt 'yours'. If you're looking at your money as a combined entity and from a marital standpoint you see all your finances as together, then you could say your money is going towards paying that debt. But you do NOT assume debt legally unless your actual name goes on the information!
PS - Don't forget that credit scores change over time! Even if you file for bankruptcy that is eliminated from your credit score after a certain amount of years (I know in Canada it is 7).
Hey girl... first of all big hugs to you. I know how shocked and frustrated and confused you must be right now.
Take a deep breath.
We live in a culture of debt, and his situation is not the worst thing in the world. It can be fixed. It can be turned around. I know from experience how terrifying and hopeless it can be to get into a debt situation like his. You get to a point where you don't know what to do, how to make it better, how to proceed at all.
It seems like he is willing to fix this, if only he knew how. Sit down and talk to him about the seriousness of this and what will be required to get out and to proceed with your relationship.
For starters I would recommend the book by Suze Orman. The one we have is "Young, Fabulous, and Broke". She talks about how to address debt situations like this. She even talks about if you are marrying someone who has bad debt, and how you can still get the things you need, like a house or a car. She also gives great advice on getting OUT of that situation. The website has some good stuff on it, too.
Next, you really might consider financial counseling. Someone who can act a mediator and educator as you get through this tough time.
Good luck! And no matter what happens, we're here for you!
I agree with others in that financial problems are HUGE in a marriage. You can't ignore the fact that he brushed off these problems in the past and withheld this information from you. However, I do think that people change and it is possible that he could learn to be more financially responsible. If you think he is worth it, then I would confront him and explain that the only way you can be together is if he gets things together and makes changes in his life. If not, then I would move on.
You can stick with him and I encourage you to, but to also keep things in your name until he has his issues financially straightened out for a few years. Does that mean not marry? No. Just keep finances separated until that time.
Also see a marriage counselor and a credit counselor together! This could be a great help. As his situation improves I think even things with you two will get much much stronger.
My ex husband ruined my credit during the divorce and it's been five years that I've had to straighten out the ridiculous damage the man did. But I did it.
Only one issue to deal with on the relationship side..the untruths about the finances. I don't like lies at all (especially after my ex) and that is something that I think should stop. Finances should be transparent, after all you're both a team. You're in his corner, but you also have to watch out for yourself too and your own credit score. Had I known what could have happened to me, I would not have combined finances with my ex.
I wish you both healing, happiness and a great life together! This can be fixed.
I might have a different point of view than the pps because I don't really believe in "The One." I think there are lots of people in this world that you can fall in love with and marry, and probably multiple that you would be happy with forever, but it is up to you to determine who you choose to marry. Obviously you make your decision based on love, but also on practical things like finances, future goals, location, family relationships, etc.
His finances are not your nightmare- they are his. And it seems like you are mostly shocked that he didn't know or care about the gravity of the situation, or maybe he did and hid it from you. This sounds like a "who are you?!?!?" moment, which I can totally relate to. Take a step back and don't make any rash decisions. I would let him clean up his finances completely by himself. He will get his life in order and come back to you if he is worthy enough to marry you. And maybe you will still be available, and maybe you will have moved on to a new love that better fits your life and your future.
Big hive hugs!!!!!!
I think all couples go through some issue like this - with us, FI's mom charged thousands of dollars of credit and loans in his name without him knowing it; he got upside down in a car loan, and we are both heavy on the CC/Student Loan debt. But we sat down, worked out a plan together - and rather than getting angry and placing blame, we are able to talk about our future financial goals (and other life goals too!) and plan together. A realistic plan to help with OUR lives in the future.
That said, I think the other bees have a TON of great advice! He needs to give you a big fat apology for not being honest upfront, he needs to recognize the huge mistake he's made and the potential affect on your future together, and he needs to be 100% serious about going forward. Because if you can't step FORWARD together, then it's not worth trying to make it work - you both have to be 100% vested and committed to fixing it together.
Best of luck, and keep us posted!! :)
One more thing: If he has received debt collection letters for any of those debst that are in collection CALL THEM. They will almost always settle for less than you owe AND give you options for paying back. IE, 500 if you pay it all now, 650 if you do it in 3 payments of $216. At the very least tell them what you can pay and ask how they can work with you. They would rather get paid less than not at all.
I am/was a financial planner so I understand the relationship between money and emotions better than most.
There are multiple issues here:
1. He wasn't completely honest with you about his financial situation. You need to address this part of the equation because this isn't all about his fiscal irresponsibility.
2. He has $10,000 of debt that you now know of and hasn't seemed to care that he has outstanding debt that he has been ignoring and hiding from. He's been totally and completely irresponsible with his finances. His credit score has been trashed.
3. He needs to figure out and explain to you why he dodged past debts and decided it was okay to skip out on debts he owed. He also needs to explain step by step in detail how he let this happen and how it got to this point.
I think its good that he is making positive steps to clear up this situation. I do not think you should consider marrying him until he completely changes the way he lives to use every extra cent to pay off his debt. No more starbucks, no more eating out, no more spending money on non necessities. He needs to prove to you that he has learned his lesson at that he will never, ever, put you in this situation again.
He needs to read Young, Fabulous, and Broke by Suze Orman and The Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey. He needs to get his credit score up ASAP because his poor credit score could keep him from finding a good job (most major employers run a credit check before hiring new employees).
Hugs to you. This is a difficult situation. If you have financial type questions, please PM me and I'll help you as much as I can.
I'd like to add that to me, his financial situation has nothing to do with me wanting a Lexus and a huge house.
It's that he is showing me his lack of commitment to our future by burying his head in the sand about his debts. I feel like he concealed these things from me (and from himself) because he is in financial denial. But noone should have to tell a 28 year old that a credit score can impact your future. He knew that, he just chose not to care.
And he continued to ignore the problem and choose not to care whenever we've had this fight in the past.
He has had a year to call Consumer Credit Counseling, to buy the Suze Orman book, to get a second job. If he had gotten a second job the first time he promised me he would, he would have been working for 10 months now and chipping away at that debt.
I'm very resentful that it has taken me threatening to leave him for him to finally get to this point. I look awful today, been crying all morning, and it took THIS for him to finally get that I was serious.
He should be worried about this for his OWN sake! It shouldn't take me becoming hysterical and threatening to leave him for him to do these small steps.
I guess my point is that, this is not our first time fighting about this. I have given him many chances, and many opportunities. I'm hurt and resentful that he has let me get to this point before he had his "wake up call"
Be careful about assuming that when you get married "his" debt does not become "your" debt. Every state is different.
I think you can still be with him, even marry him and it will be ok. You can keep your finances separate, you dont have to do joint accounts, credits, anything. If you have a great credit score and want a house, car, whatver, you can use your credit. My parents both have good credit scores but my mom's is better so she used her info for stuff like a loan, house, etc.
I think your love is what matters the most and coming from someone who is financially unstable, you guys can get through it together. Im not as in dire straights are your BF but I have alot debt and my DH has obviously stuck by me and we are working together to pay off everything. I didnt tell my DH how much I actually owed until recently, I always lowballed it because I was embarassed, which is probably what your BF did.
I truly hope you guys can work it out and that everything will be ok!
As a much older consumer,I have to add just a few things. I see several serious red flags with this guy,but no matter what everyone else tells you,you have to be the one to either follow your HEAD or follow your HEART.
Can it be fixed? Sure...but for how long? People really never change or change their habits, and since you know all this right now, do you want to spend the rest of your life together being the finance police? No matter what the reason,the fact is that he chose to not only hide this from you,but he also chose to ignore his debt. How long did he think he'd get away with it? Who did he think was responsible for repayment?
I know you want some guidance (or maybe you have already formulated a plan?),but honestly,no one can tell you how best to deal with this. If you think the relationship is worth saving,you'll do it. If not,you'll be walking away and hopefully not tormenting yourself over not being able to save him from himself.
I wish you luck.
*HUGS* You have every right to be hurt. Honestly, I wouldn't marry him until he actually shaped up. I'm not saying leave him. You're right to take a step back.
If you feel like this is somethng worth fighting for, fight for it. If you think that you can't trust him after this, keep waiting to get married until you can again. He lied about something very serious, and he needs to know there are consquences. And if that means he lives on his own again for awhile, then so be it.
Ditto on Suze Orman's YF&B. That book is so clear, accessible, and empowering!
It sounds like your fiance has a tendency to stick his head in the ground about debt, and hope that it will either go away or that he can fix it before it becomes known to his friends/family. Go through his credit report with him, and have him go through yours with you. Make a plan and a timeline to get out of debt. Then stick to it.
I don't think that at this point, if he's The One for you, that this is enough to leave him. I do think that putting the engagement on hold is a good idea. In my opinion, at least, financial maturity is absolutely key for both members of a successful marriage.
It sounds like the bigger issue here may be that he has lied all this time about his finances. If he had been honest with you from the beginning would you have felt differently about his debt?
You're right that money issues are the #1 reason for divorce. Sounds like you have alot to think about. Maybe putting him on hold for a while so he can get it together might be considered not a break up but a break. Good luck. We'll be here for you if you need to talk
wow...i dont know. ((hugs)) i think i probably would have asked him to leave too.
the lying is bad. but the irresponsibility is what really would have upset me. if at 28, you cant be responsible for debt you accumulated, whats going to happen when we have kids, decide to buy a house?
i also dont agree with all this "work with him" business. why should you have to go over his credit report with him like he is 16. whether you are legally responsible for his debt or not, once you get married, money will be leaving your household to pay for his exwifes ring. i really feel your anger. if he values you and your relationship, he will take the initiative to resolve all these issued himself. once you see him with a second job, you'll know he's ready to make a change.
i guess i dont really have any advice. i just cant get on board with the concept of 'fighting for someone if you love them" when this is not about something he cant control. i forsee a situation where you will spend the rest of your relationship with him being his mommy....writing his checks, giving him an allowance so he doesnt over spend, paying all of his bills. what kind of life is that? that will get real old, real fast, especially once their are real children to take care of.
I think some stupid financial mistakes can be forgiven. You can work to rectify those. I would be much more worried about untruthfulness and him hiding things from you. Unless he is willing to lay everything out on the table and come clean and work with you and a credit counseling service to fix this, I would be hesitant to continue the relationship. So I say, if he is willing to work on it then continue dating him. But keep your accounts separate and do not marry this man until he has things cleared up.
@waitiingbee Yes, if he had been completely honest about everything from the beginning, and had been working on it, this would have been a very different situation. My main concern is not the debt, because I have student loans myself, but his ATTITUDE towards the debt. He didn't know about a lot of it, and didn't care about any of it.
I wish he had been honest with me about the numbers, and honest with himself about addressing it.
@FutureMrsMorgan-- you have voiced a lot of the concerns I have exactly. I don't think I want to assume the role of finance police. Why can't he figure out Microsoft Money on his own? Why can't he go to a financial planner on his own? Why can't he do something as simple as logging on to his bank to make sure is account isn't overdrawn without me standing over him? I don't want to be his financial "mommy" for the rest of our lives. I don't want to have to control all of the finances, as some of the other pp's have suggested. To me, if you can't trust your husband or SO with finances, then that is a huge problem. I resent having to bitch at him, or hold his hand through this process. I want him to get his act together on his own, because I don't want to spend the rest of our lives mothering him about money, or watching every single thing he buys like a hawk. I just want him to take responsibility and act like an adult.
It sounds like you've already made the decision to change the relationship. I agree with Jacqui, above. While I feel like marriage is for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, you are not married. You aren't engaged yet, right? If I were in your situation, I would have him move out and work on things, come to grips with his debts and make a plan for repayment. Then after a while, perhaps consider moving forward. That said, though, he has had a year of this and done nothing good to better his situation. I hate to say it, but if i were you, I would make that move and see where life took me. You never know, it could be back with him or with someone else. You should marry someone from your head AND your heart.
@ThisCan'tBeHappening: The feeling that you have towards this process (in your last post) is why we each make different decisions with situations like this. Unfortunately, you are going to have to hold his hand through this and hope that eventually he does get better about it (as my FI did). And still, you'll have to be "financial mommy" from time to time. That's the choice you have to make.
I'm sorry to hear you are going through such a difficult time. I would like to offer some food for thought from the perspective of someone who has made some huge financial mistakes. Being in debt to creditors is an emotionally crippling thing that is hard to crawl out of. It destroys your self-esteem. Especially if that debt was incurred at a time in your life that you would really not like to relive. I would bet that your partner is well aware of the need for a good credit score, however he may not be ready emotionally to have to rehash his unfinished education or his feelings from a previous relationship. Especially if he is having to face it alone. His avoidance of his past debt may also be due to his realization that it is a hot button issue with you. If his confidence about himself is shaky in regard to his past debt and the love of his life is very black and white regarding the issue of finances, he is in a tough spot. This by no means excuses his behavior or makes it less hurtful for you, but it may offer a little understanding of why he has been burying his head in the sand this past year.
I really understand what you are going through, because the same thing happened to me.
I moved in with my fiance in February 2008. About a month later, I started noticing that he would ignore phone calls and was getting more and more stressed out. One day he finally broke down and told me what was going on. After he left his last girlfriend because he found out she was on drugs he became depressed. The way he dealt with his depression was to spend money, and lots of it. He ran up one credit card to $30,000. He had also taken out several pay day advance loans so they were trying to collect as well. He had gotten behind on both of those things because by the time he paid the rent, his car, and other bills, there was barely anything left. He went to college and had a great job, but it was just to much. I think the grand total of what he was behind in alone was $40,000
He was very scared to tell me. He thought that the first thing I would do would be to leave him. Of course, I did sort of freak out. Mostly because I am younger than him, and it was a lot to take on. Personally, the only debt I had was my car payment. However, I decided to stay with him because I love him and I know he is the man for me. We have since then paid off all of his outstanding debt, we now only owe on things that we have not gotten behind in which is our cars and two credit cards that we keep just to help out our credit scores. Here is what we did:
First, I became responsible for budgeting out finances. When I was 11 I went on my first big field trip. It was a weekend field trip to NYC and for a girl from GA that was a big deal. I remember my dad telling me on the way to drop me off with my group "It's better to be frugal than frivilous" and that mentality has stuck with me all these years. First, we tackled all the smaller depts from the pay day advances. Every pay check we would pay off one of them. So in about six months all of those were gone. We then settled the $30,000 credit card for $9,000. That helped out ALOT. If we hadn't answered the phone for the debt collectors, we would have never known we could do that. And now, it is paid off. I think if I had left him, he never would have gotten it together, because he is terrible with his finances. I was able to provide the motivation that he needed.
I am in no way saying that the process was not emotional. For a year, we lived pay check to pay check. Sometime at the end of the month, our checking account would be at $0. I would walk to work to save on gas, we would never eat out, and it was hard. But today, we are no longer living like that and are able to save money at the end of the month. Oh, and a year ago his credit score was a 450, now it is at 600. We still have to wait a little longer until we buy a house, but I am okay with that.
Try talking to him. Maybe you can help him get on the right track. If you love him, stick by him. It will be hard, but together you two can get through it.
I wouldn't call this a deal-breaker for because it sounds to me like he just never had the guidance to be financially responsible.
Coming from the other end of this, I understand his side because when I graduated college, I had wracked up a lot of debt because I was really irresponsible with credit cards. I was horribly embarassed, and I knew I had to tell my husband (boyfriend at the time of two years). So I did, and it was one of the hardest things I had to do, but he was really supportive. I told him exactly how much was in collections, and helped me research debt support groups to fix it, and oh my god, it made me feel so much better.
I think doing the same with your boyfriend is the best thing to do. I don't think he's lying to you on purpose, which of course would be a concern if he was. He probably just doesn't understand what a big deal this is. Helping him through it will be rewarding for you both, and getting him into some support groups or something is imperative ... he needs to understand that money is a big deal, and saving for a future, while building good credit will not only benefit him, but you as well if he's serious about getting married.
Also, I understand why this is a shock to you, and you have every right to be upset, but just keep in mind that his debt amount is NOT that bad. Well, yeah, it's not good, but while I was reading your post, I was fully expecting you to say that he was in the hole $20,000 or something. I was in debt about $6K, but some of the people my debt support person was also assisting were in debt much more than that, so just keep in mind that it could have been worse. It's definitely not too late to get this taken care of now, and in a few years, he'll be back on the right track.
If you think he's the one for you, this is most definitely worth helping him through (emotionally, not financially, of course!).
Good luck with your decision, hun. Keep us posted!
@hotchild-- I don't want to do that at all. That may make my decision easier, since I am adamant about that. You've given some great advice, thank you.
@misschapstick--
Well. I actually have no idea how much he is in the hole for. Right now what I know about is:
$3500 Ex-wife's ring
$2-3K? Tuition
$8K Personal Loan
$600 cell phone company
$1400 apartment company
plus a smattering of payday loans, cash advances, etc.
I just fear that more stuff will come out sooner or later....... he is at his interview now. I'll let you all know.
It doesn't seem like he is a deadbeat - he has a job, he pays some bills. The total amount of his debt is actually not crazy, you can get out of that hole. He clearly has some seriously concerning financial habits. The fact that he didn't tell you, while somewhat concerning, is probably mostly due to him being ashamed vs. being a dishonest person.
Only you can tell how serious he is about taking charge of this and how much you are willing to put up with. I would think that if you love him as deeply as you say and you want to marry this man, then if he is truly serious about turning his financial situation and habits around, you would be there to support and help him.
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