Help with feeding issue
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Yet another post about sleep help!

posted 1 year ago in Babies
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    Derbybride    December 5, 2009   Louisville KY

    My little man was doing well but we have hit some serious bumps in the road as of late. We were using a sleep positioner and he was sleeping through the night a few times a week. We took the sleep positioner out after the big warning that came out and we haven't gotten a good nights sleep since then. We also just had a growth spurt, at 13 weeks, which made things even worse and I have been getting up every 2 1/2 hours. 

    We have always had issues with him fighting sleep. We have never been able to get him to put himself to sleep. When he gets tired he gets very upset and fights it like crazy. We have always just held him tight and rocked him until he calmed down and then put him to bed after he was asleep. We have tried so many other things and they haven't worked. Trying to soothe him while standing next to him or soothing him and putting him back down doesn't work either. He gets upset and wound up very quickly if you lay him down and leave him to sleep. 

    At this point hubby is really pushing to do CIO but I have told him that I don't want it to come to that. I have ordered one of the "No Cry Sleep Solution" books but I am waiting for it to come in the mail. 

    Anyone have any ideas? 

    He is currently still being swaddled and we do play classical music while he's sleeping. I've been trying to get a bed time routine going but we have no type of consistent schedule at this point so that has been tough. 

    I'm really getting frustrated at this point. It affects every part of our lives. I hardly go out during the week when I am home with him because he will get upset once he gets tired (instead of sleeping in his car seat) and he is tired a lot because he can't take a decent nap unless I lay down with him. It's really making it hard to enjoy the fact that I get to be home with him so much. 

    Thanks for any ideas that anyone can offer. 

     

     
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    Mrs. DG    July 18, 2009   Seattle/Tahoe

    Well, I have to say that at this point I'm probably an expert on this topic!  I can give you the sum-total of what I've learned and it still might not help because each little night dragon is a whole different ball of wax.

    First a word on CIO.  When we posed our sleep issues (which I've shared with you all recently) to the pediatrician, she strongly advocated CIO.  I decided I would read the scientific literature to see if I could find evidence discussing the long term effects of CIO.  Needless to say, there is not a lot of information.  CIO works, there is no doubt about it.  The mechanism of it working is thought to be that the baby learns not to cry out to get it's needs met because no one will respond.  Here is a reasonable summary of what I found in the literature.  Please keep in mind that I don't endorse the theory that stress hormones at the level exhibited in CIO cause neuronal damage.  http://www.phdinparenting.com/2008/07/05/no-cry-it-out/ and http://www.phdinparenting.com/2009/01/15/another-academic-weighs-in-on-cio/

    Ok, so now that I was adamantly CIO-phobic, what have we done?  And mind you, the night dragon is only now starting to get better!

    1. First and foremost, I started by telling myself that this is only temporary and in a couple of years I'll miss my nights of pacing the halls with our sweet little baby.  It doesn't always make it more bearable but it helps.

    2.  Routine, routine, routine.  We do the same things at the same times each and every night.  Bath, reading, snuggle, nursing, music... choose your pattern, but do it the same way each day.

    3.  Look for patterns.  We found that our little one is terrified of the dark. So every night we'd turn out the light to make it sleepy time, and from then on she'd scream bloody murder.  It took us abot a month to figure this out.  A nightlight has now solved about 60% of our problems.

    4.  Do something stimulating in the afternoon.  We find that on boring days she sleeps less well, but on days when we're out and about in the afternoon or early evening, it's better.

    5. Swaddle.  It still works for us.

    6. Have a game plan.  When we get tired over here, we get stupid, so long before the routine starts for the evening we know who will be rocking the baby, who will take care of the first awakening etc.

    7. Find a way to give each other a break.  I've made my honey go sleep downstairs when he's wiped out, and he sometimes takes the early am shift so I can sleep. 

    I might have more things, but this is all I can think of right now.  I hope there is a little something in it that might help.

     
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    Sometimes babies develop habits of not being able to settle themselves to sleep because they have never learned how. Thye've never had the opportunity because someone always intervenes.

    Please do some objective reading about CIO.

    It does not mean letting your baby cry himself to exhaustion without comfort or intervention by the parent.

    Learning to settle themselves is just another skill that all babies have to learn at some point.

     

     
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    We are just switching to crib sleeping and MB is fighting it.  The first night she woke up every 90 minutes.  Last night she was swaddled, she only woke up twice.  We also use a nightlight.  The lamp in her room actually has a nightlight bulb in it.  We have a dimmer switch on the overhead light, and we never turn the light totally on or off.

    I also don't like CIO.  We have a great baby monitor that monitors motion as well as sound so if she stops breathing, it beeps.  That makes ME sleep better away from her.  And we keep the sound up so that we can proactively go in before she's really awake.  If we catch her just fussing, she goes right back to sleep.

    My pede and mother both insist we let her "soothe herself" which to me sounds a heck of a lot like CIO.  We're still not doing that.

    Don't know if any of that helps, as MB is still a work in progress too.  But we try to make sure she's not too hot/cold, comfortable, the room is dark but not too dark, quiet but not too quiet, etc.  I'm pushing a noodle uphill.

     
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    Mrs. DG    July 18, 2009   Seattle/Tahoe

    Oooh, I forgot to say that mspi (milk soy protein intolerance) was a huge part of our problem.  She was so fussy because she was in so much pain.  I cut all milk, soy and egg out of my diet and noticed improvements quite rapidly.  We're two weeks out and the fussing is better, no bloody stools and I've lost 5 more pounds.

     
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    Mrs. DG    July 18, 2009   Seattle/Tahoe

    @julies1949:  I'd love to see literature on the developmental impact of CIO that isn't negative.  I couldn't find any.  I'm not talking about books that have a method, such as Ferber-izing.  I'm talking obective scientific evidence... because all I can find in the developmental and psych literature are studies that show potential harms (problems with attachment and emotional availability).

     

    Also, I think self-soothing is highly over-rated.  A baby is not developmentally ready to self-soothe.  Recent studies have shown that kids who don't CIO are actually more emotionally mature and able to self-soothe better as they get older and it is a developmentally appropriate skill.

    I should say that my views on this whole topic have made a 180 degree turn since having the baby.  My mom instincts told me that CIO was wrong, despite the fact that pediatricians are taught to give CIO as standard parenting advice.  Yeah, I'm tired, and we consider a night with 2 awakenings a good night... but I feel good about our decision.

    If someone else makes another decision, I'm not going to think it's a bad thing.  If it works for them, that's great.  We did it once and she threw up and I cried.  No more CIO for us!

     
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    Derbybride    December 5, 2009   Louisville KY

    Thanks for all the responses!

    @Mighty- We are going to get a night light to try tonight. I have tried catching him when he first gets fussy and soothing him, with and without picking him up, but it very rarely works. I can sometimes get him back to sleep by starting the whole rocking process over again. I spent one day doing this over and over again and he probably slept 30-40 minutes over an hour and a half period. I'm willing to keep doing that if anyone thinks he would eventually learn from it but it was very frustrating (and I am not known for being super patient:)

    @Mrs DG- I'm going to try cutting out milk and cheese and see if this helps with his overall fussiness during the day. It's going to be tough bc I have quite a latte habit on the days that I work:( I don't eat eggs often so that will be easy. Are there any hidden dairy items that I should watch out for that may not be obvious?

    We are also going to lay down a definite night time routine... I think we have been trying to force an earlier bed time than he wants so we will move it 9:00 and see if we have better luck with that. 

    I agree that someday I will miss this time with him and be sad that he is no longer able to cuddle up and fall asleep on my shoulder. I kind of like that private time with him during the middle of the night feeding when its just the two of us. 

    Are you able to put your little ones down while they are still slightly awake? I don't mind rocking him to sleep and its usually pretty quick after he eats but it's one of those things that I keep reading is a bad habit. I'm wondering if this is just one of those things that works for us and I should ignore all the "experts" about this one area or if it would help with his overall napping ability. 

     

     

     
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    Mrs. DG    July 18, 2009   Seattle/Tahoe

    @Derbybride:  There is tons of hidden dairy!  Here are some links to help.  Keep in mind that it takes 2 weeks to see results.  If your baby doesn't seem to have tummy distress, green mucusy poops or blood, I might not want to tackle it!  (It's quite the commitment).  Don't cut out eggs if you don't have to.  I had to because it just so happened that I had a ton of them right before the bloody poop started.  Not eating egg along with dairy becomes really tricky!

    We never put the baby down drowsy.  She has to be out or she just starts screaming again!  PS last night was lovely.  We had 3 awakenings, all at times where she needed a feed...

    General Guidelines for MSPI:

    http://www.lpch.org/DiseaseHealthInfo/HealthLibrary/allergy/milk.html

    http://home.vicnet.net.au/~disa/Food%20intol-alergic%20baby.html

    http://milkintolerance.org/

    http://mspikids.info/

    http://www.thechildrenshospital.org/conditions/digestive/professionals/stool.aspx

    Recipes:

    http://mspimama.blogspot.com/

    http://mspikids.info/recipes/

    http://www.mspicookbook.com/index.html

    http://www.foodallergymama.com/

    http://intolerantoffspring.com/

    The Culinary Guide for MSPI

    www.babycakesnyc.com

    http://www.amazon.com/Whole-Foods-Allergy-Cookbook-Homestyle/dp/1890612456/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1286757511&sr=8-6

    http://top8free.com/

    Shopping

    www.ceciliasmarketplace.com

    godairyfree.org

     
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    Mrs. Spring    May 10, 2009   California

    I'll be honest, I don't anyone who can put their baby down "awake but drowsy."  I think it's pretty standard pediatric advice, but everyone I know rocks/soothes their babies to sleep.

    The most important thing, I think, is consistency and flexibility.  Usually, just when we think we've figured out Addie's routine, she up and changes on us and we have to adjust to something new.  :)  There's just no trying to force her into something she doesn't want to do because she ends up screaming and we end up crying and it turns into a terrible night all around.  So now, we're just trying to go with the flow and be as consistent as we can without letting it turn into a huge battle. 

    I also think that babies aren't consistently good sleepers; at least not at this age.  I think a lot of things throw them off, and they go through periods of great and not-so-great sleeping.  It's hard to accept when Addie's sleeping a 9 hour stretch one night and then up every few hours the next night, but I just try to remember that the bad phases will pass, and she'll go back to sleeping well when she's ready.  :) 

    As far CIO goes, there's just no way I could do it; I hate hearing Addie cry, even just for a minute.  And, even the CIO method books admit that it's not a one-time cure-all.  You have to do CIO over and over again every time a baby's sleep pattern gets thrown off by something commonplace (like teething, travel, illness, growth spurts, etc...).  So, I'm kinda like, what's the point?  If CIO only solves your sleep problems for a brief time and then you have to "re-teach" it, it just doesn't seem very effective to me.

     
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    Mrs. Spring    May 10, 2009   California

    Oh, I also want to add that if you're cutting our dairy/soy, lattes made with almond milk are incredible!  It's almost all we use at home, and many coffee shops (including some Starbucks) are carrying almond milk now. 

     
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    troubled      

    Maybe get a wolf dog to sing it to sleep. 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhA_TTKetyM

    I kid, but it's a cute video.

     
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    Mrs.KMM    July 17, 2010   Atlanta, GA (wedding in Indianapolis, IN)

    I'll be honest, I really don't understand the opposition to CIO.  Me and both my siblings were awful sleepers apparently when we were babies and my parent's did "self-soothing" which is essentially CIO for each of us.  And you know what, it worked every time (and relatively quickly at that).  And once we learned to soothe ourselves, we didn't have issues sleeping anymore (ie. it never had to be re-taught).  All three of us have turned out great too.  No problems with attachment or emotional availability with any of us.

    It truely is a viable option that works great for some babies and their parents.  I think people are often too quick to discount it.

     
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    Mrs. Spring    May 10, 2009   California

    @Mrs.KMM:  Everyone has to make their own parenting decisions, and what works for some won't necessarily work for others.  I don't think people are terrible parents because they choose CIO, but it's just not an option for me personally.  I literally have a physical reaction to hearing Addie cry; there's no way I could do CIO, so we use other, non-crying solutions, instead.  I think a lot of the opposition comes from parents who just can't stand to hear their baby cry.  If it goes against your parenting intution, or you feel uncomfortable with it, it's probably not the best solution for you.

    Also, I'm sure some kids react more postively than others to CIO.  Not all babies are going to form attachment issues; not all are going to have to be re-trained.  It seems like it was a positive thing for you and your family; it just might not be such a great experience for others, know what I mean?

     
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    Mrs.KMM    July 17, 2010   Atlanta, GA (wedding in Indianapolis, IN)

    @Mrs. Spring: Oh, I totally get that everyone has to make their own parenting decisions and I already know of some things that DH and I plan to do as parents that many are opposed to.  What works for some doesn't work for others and that definitely doesn't mean that anyone's choice is right or wrong.

    And you're right, CIO isn't the best option for everyone by any means.  I just feel like "self-soothing" / CIO gets a particularly bad rap from people, many of whom have never even tried it or have any experience with it but who just outright reject it on principle.  Not saying you (or anyone else on the thread) were doing so, I just wanted to be a voice on the other side of the coin for the OP to be able to consider.

     
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    Mrs. Spring    May 10, 2009   California

    @Mrs.KMM:  Gotcha.  :)

     
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    smyley    May 2010  

    Mind if I ask how old are all the babies in this thread? Just curious!

     
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    Mrs. Spring    May 10, 2009   California

    @smyley:  Addie is 4.5 months.

     
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    smyley    May 2010  

    @Mrs. Spring:Are you breastfeeding? Is she on anything else yet? She isn't sleeping through the night either?

     
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    Mrs. Spring    May 10, 2009   California

    @smyley:  We are formula feeding.  She also gets rice cereal once a day, but she's still figuring out the spoon, so she doesn't eat a lot of it (although apparently babies get the majority of their calories from formula/breast milk until they're a year old anyway).  Addie is a pretty good sleeper; she often does about a 9 hour stretch at the beginning of the night and then a 2-3 hour stretch after that.  From what I understand in talking to other moms with babies a similiar age, Addie is an awesome sleeper (the other moms I know say their babies are all doing about 5 hour stretches at 4-5 months).

    ETA:  The "medical definition" of sleeping through the night is sleeping a 5 hour stretch, by the way.  I find that kinda misleading.  :)

     
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    Mrs. DG    July 18, 2009   Seattle/Tahoe

    @Mrs.KMM:  We looked at CIO as an option.  As a pediatrician I taught this method to families for years, because you are right, it works.  However, when I found myself having a visceral reaction to it and watched my daughter work herself into a frenzy, I decided to do more research on it.  It turns out that there are very few long term studies on the psychological and developmental impacts.  The few that do exist point to potential problems with emotional attachment.  (Again, this wouldn't be for all, but for some children).  My personal experience and the lack of scientific support were enough to convince me that we didn't want to do it.  We've now had 4 nights of great sleep (and one of those through a massive wind storm), so we're happy with our decision.  I do, however, realize that each situation is unique.

    @smyley:  Our baby is 5.5 months old.

     
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    smyley    May 2010  

    It's been a long time since I've had my babies, and find it fascinating how many things have changed in baby world. It took me a few minutes to realize what CIO meant! (That's honestly pretty old school, but continues to have many believers and followers from what I hear. It makes me cringe every time I hear it,tho.) I always had the same reaction to hearing my babies cry, and being told you'll only spoil them by picking them up,and they need to cry it out used to make my blood boil.

    Sleeping through the night is just 5 hours? Wow! Most of us in my family have had great sleepers, and mine were no exception. I pulled out my baby books just to make sure I was remembering correctly, but mine both slept 12 hours by 8 weeks. The first time the oldest did it I still woke up every few hours to check her and her breathing, and I'm convinced that's why I have such a terrible time sleeping, even now. I never regained a normal sleep pattern after having children.

    Both were breastfed for 8 months, and both weaned themselves around the same age. No cereal or food or bottle supplements until 6 months,even tho many people tried to push me into it all. They were on a four hour feeding schedule during the day with morning and afternoon naps, and still slept from 8pm to 8am. My one sister's kids never seemed to sleep and I know how exhausted and frustrated she was, so I empathize.

    Wouldn't it be nice if there was the perfect formula that all Mothers could follow and that babies would as well? They really are all different, but I think once you accept that the first year of their lives is a learning time for everyone involved, it becomes a little easier to deal with..it gets better!

    I do know that the last thing I always did before settling them down for the night was to give them a bath and then nurse til they fell asleep. No play time,reading or activity...just quiet and restful time in low lights. The less stimulation,the better. It was my favorite time of day.

    Good luck,girls. I miss those times!

     
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    @smyley: MB is 5 months old, BF, and not "sleeping through the night" by definition, although she isn't technically "awake" when she wakes to feed.

     

    @Mrs.KMM: We tried CIO for ONE night.  Basically MB became more and more distressed until she was screaming.  Then she wet herself.  This happened EVERY TIME.  So then we'd have to change her diaper and try to do it all over again.  Swaddling helped, but she still cried herself to sleep (like fell asleep while crying because she was just too exhausted).  In my mind that technique did not work because she should have cried, then calmed down and realized she was ok, then put herself to sleep.  That was HORRIBLE to go through.  We gave that method 12 hours to work.  MB never took to it and it left both of us feeling wretched, like we were starving her or something.  My mom insists that we should put MB in a crib in another room and let her CIO, because that's what she did with us and we're not serial killers or anything.  But there are a LOT of things they did in the 80s that we aren't doing with MB, and I just can't accept the "well YOU didn't die, so it must have been a good idea" logic.  Like DG said, there is not a lot of objective literature or data on it, but I couldn't find anything good anyway.  We gave it a shot, but in the end it didn't work for us.

    On the flip side of the coin, my SIL did CIO with all three of her kids.  I guess it worked for her.  To each their own.

     
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    Derbybride    December 5, 2009   Louisville KY

    @MrsDG--Yeah I think I'll hold off on eliminating dairy just yet...I had no idea how many products had dairy in them! He does occasionally have problems with his belly but that could also be related to his CF, he is currently pancreatic sufficient but his levels are just above the lower limit so I don't know if thats a factor, as we are still learning about his disease.

    @MrsSpring- I am going to try the almond milk tho---It sounds really good!

    @Smyley- K is 3 months 1 week old, BFing, and surprises us by sleeping 5-6 hours a few times a week

    I will second what Mighty and DG both said about CIO. I only lasted 15 minutes and seeing his face as he screamed and hearing the distress in his voice was way too much for me. I've had friends tell me " he cried an hour and a half the first time but it was so much easier the next time" and I can't even fathom listening to him cry for an hour and a half! It is physically painful to me and makes me cry when he is upset. Ultimately I won't do it because it doesn't feel right to me. 

     
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    Mrs. DG    July 18, 2009   Seattle/Tahoe

    @Derbybride:  I forgot about the CF... Please don't do dairy elim unless you absolutely have to.  He needs everything he can get from you!

     
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    Derbybride    December 5, 2009   Louisville KY

    Thanks DG--I'll talk to our pulmonologist if he continues to have problems with that. 

     

     
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    Janna19    June 7, 2008   New York

    @Mrs. Spring: We do!  When Ryan was a few weeks old my, I was still doing the nurse to sleep thing - I would nurse, change, swaddle, nurse.  Then my husband mentioned that he puts Ryan down with his eyes open (this must have been once we introduced bottles).  It was a revelation! Now we normally put Ryan down drowsy - he doesn't need any rocking and usually will drift off to sleep.  So now it goes Nurse, nurse, swaddle, down (normally).  Sometimes he needs a little hands on soothing or shushing but not normally.

    My list of things that have helped us the most a la Mrs. DG (Ryan is 11 weeks old, sleeps a 5 hour stretch, then a 3 hour, and then maybe another 1-2 hours, but not always).

    1. TIGHT swaddle.  In the beginning our swaddles sucked because we were convinced Ryan didn't like them.  Well he didn't like going into them, but once we got a good tight swaddle technique down it was like magic.

    2. The other "S's" from the Happiest Baby on the block - side lying, rocking, shushing, sucking.  He doesn't really need these too much anymore, but they come in handy when is fussy.

    3. Pacifier - this one is not required on all nights, really depends on his temperment.  Luckily he tends to spit it out right as he falls asleep so he doesn't wake up needing to have it back.

    4. Car seat - there are some studies suggesting this is a bad thing, but the main danger is the baby's head falling forward.  The car seat we have, with the Snuzzler in it, doesn't pose this problem.  When we started having him sleep in the car seat his sleep improved dramatically.  My main concern is how to get him out of it!!

    5. The right environment: white noise machine that plays all night long (doesn't shut off) and a dark room

    6. Bedtime routine - we are just starting this and we are pretty inconsistent, but will get better as he gets older (bath and story added to the mix).  We also have a nightlight so it isn't pitch black which seemed to freak ryan out.

    I am hoping he starts sleeping longer stretches, we have been at 5-5.5 hours for a few weeks now.  I am torn on CIO - I found the literature against it to have very spotty backup research (checked out your links Mrs. DG!), with most of what I read to be opinion based on reasonable logic.  But I am not convinced of the negative implications.  That said, I don't know that I am ok with making him so unhappy to get him to sleep more....I would probably do it if I thought his sleep at night was poor enough that it was impacting him, but I know we aren't there yet.

     
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    Superstitions    July 25, 2009   TX

    Do you know when he usually has the most issues with falling asleep? I'm just asking, because for a while, Yuuki had an issue with sleeping right after eating. One night, we actually had to put her to sleep in her car seat. The angle really helped, and she fell fast asleep and slept through the night. I ended up sleeping on the nursery floor though.

    I'm not really for or against CIO, but as you've mentioned, it's not what you want to do. I only let her CIO once when I couldn't do anything to get her to sleep. I wouldn't recommend it unless it was in a similar situation. Obviously, this also depends on your reaction to his cries too. I don't have a physical reaction to her crying. I have a limit though. I would never just leave her in her crib if she was screaming in pain or terror.

    We usually put Yuuki to bed either awake or drowsy. We don't mind if she's just fussy. She usually goes to sleep pretty quickly. Also, I usually only feed her until she's not crying anymore when I take the bottle away. Sometimes, I just think she was too full and was too uncomfortable to sleep.

    One last thing, it usually helps to use the pacifier before Yuuki falls asleep. It's a comfort thing. After she falls asleep, it'll fall out, and she won't need it anymore.

    Just so you know our situation, Yuuki is 4 months old and has been sleeping through the night (usually around 12 hours) since about 7 weeks.

     
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    Mrs. Spring    May 10, 2009   California

    @ Janna19 and Superstitions - It sounds like you guys have great little sleepers; lucky girls!

     
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    Janna19    June 7, 2008   New York

    @Mrs. Spring:yeah I jinxed myself though, he sure wasn't a  great sleeper last night!

     

    @Superstitions:how long do you go between feedings during the day? 12 hours at 7 weeks is crazy!! any other tips?

     
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    Superstitions    July 25, 2009   TX

    @Janna19: Yuuki usually goes 3 or so hours between feedings. She gets up around 8 each morning and will eat again sometime around 11 or 12. She's a good eater though. She usually will go through an entire bottle (8 oz.) at each feeding. I've actually recently cut her back though. There was a time when she wanted 10+ ounces in the morning.

    We do have a routine for her, but that's obviously different for every mother. Ours is bath (sometimes), change diaper, new sleeper, feeding, and putting her in her crib. We put her down while she's still awake and give her a pacifier. For Yuuki, the pacifier is her comfort object. We've actually caught her making that sucking motion in her sleep without the pacifier in her mouth.

    Also, once my husband and I stopped putting it upon ourselves to stay with her until she's fast asleep, it got easier. We leave the room while she's still awake. We'll let her make noise for a while, and if she's still fussing, we go back in and give her pacifier back, but we won't stress ourselves trying to make her go to sleep.

     
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    2,468 posts
    Buzzing bee
    Janna19    June 7, 2008   New York

    @Superstitions:thanks! normally ryan goes down without much trouble, it is the staying asleep that is becoming his challenge.  we are similar in putting him down awake and then leaving him to fall asleep - sometimes with a paci but not always - but I am just looking forward to the sleep stretches getting longer!! instead we are regressing from a 5 hour nap to a 3 hour one to start.  ah well.  i thinkhe will do it when he is ready!

     
    32.
    Member
    573 posts
    Busy bee
    Derbybride    December 5, 2009   Louisville KY

    Wow Superstitions...I so wish I could get K to fall asleep on his own. I really think this is his overall problem. He won't fall asleep during the day at all unless we rock or hold him until he is asleep. If we try to leave him he gets crazy upset and we can't soothe him unless we hold him and start all over again. 

    I just got the No cry nap solution book today and I can't wait to start reading it. I'm praying that it will help him get some sleep. I have been keeping track and he is only sleeping 11-12 hours a day which is just not nearly enough and by the end of the day he is so exhausted. 

     

     
    33.
    Bee
    3,235 posts
    Sugar bee
    mrsbee    March 5, 2005   New York, NY

    When Charlie's sleep started getting really bad, I was so against CIO I literally read every single book on baby sleep out there.  He would be wide awake for hours in the middle of the night, 2-3 times a night, every night.  He could easily wake up over 10 times a night.  He was so tired in the days, sometimes he could only stay awake an hour.  Not allowing him to get the sleep he needed seemed like it was much worse torture than allowing him to cry.

    So at 4 1/2 months, we used the Ferber method.  I left the apartment and had Mr. Bee sleep train because I couldn't bear to hear Charlie cry at all.  Luckily Charlie cried on and off for about 17 minutes, and then the next night he went to bed without a single tear.  He's 10 1/2 months now, and he's slept through the night since, even when we travel.  We put him in his crib drowsy but awake for every single nap and bedtime.  His naps used to be less than 45 minutes (the length of one sleep cycle), but now his naps are always around 2 hours.  

    Had Charlie's sleep been survivable (eg he woke up frequently but wasn't wide awake for hours in the middle of the night, every night), I never would have CIO.  But I don't know how long most people could survive on 2-3 hours total sleep comprised of 20 minute bits of sleep here and there.

    Honestly Charlie was an easier than the average baby when it comes to sleep training.  But as effective as I know it is, I don't even know that I'll do it with my next kid.  A lot of babies are just naturally good sleepers who sleep through the night on their own, and I'm hoping that's what we have next time around. 

    I beat myself up for months before I finally decided we had no alternative but to sleep train.  I tried the No Cry Sleep Solution and it didn't work for us.  I was literally sick with anxiety and guilt.  But Charlie was so exhausted, it was baby torture.  Of course I understand that no parent wants to CIO -- it's heartbreaking!  But we made what we felt was the best decision for our family, and I don't have any regrets. 

     
    34.
    Bee
    3,235 posts
    Sugar bee
    mrsbee    March 5, 2005   New York, NY

    Oh and this is what worked for us in terms of routine!  

    - Babies under 5 months have a maximum awake time of 2 hours.  When they're overtired, it's much harder for them to settle down to sleep, so Charlie would be in his crib before he was awake a total of 2 hours.

    - 10 minutes before each nap, we dim the lights and read a couple of books.  Then we hold Charlie over our shoulder while patting his back and singing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star.  We put him in his crib awake, and he usually falls asleep within a couple of minutes.  The nap routine doesn't matter, as long as you do the exact same things in the exact same order every time.  

    - our bedtime routine is bath, moisturize, onesie + sleep sack, bottle, and bed time.  we used to vary the bed time based on when charlie woke up from his last nap, but once his sleep became more consistent, it was easy to have the same bedtime every night.  

    - we use a white noise machine to block out any sounds that may be waking your baby.

    - we have black out shades in his room to block out any light that may disturb his sleep.

    sending sleepy wishes to all your babies!

     
    35.
    Hostess
    8,491 posts
    Bumble
    Beekeeper
    Mrs. DG    July 18, 2009   Seattle/Tahoe

    @mrsbee:  It sounds like you absolutely did what was right for Charlie!  What's right for one baby doesn't work for another... That's why I'm absolutely against judging other people's parenting decisions.  It's not a one size fits all proposition (which is also why there are so many different methods out there).

    We've been trying to wean Cecilia off night time feedings this week, and last night she worked herself into nearly a half hour of vomit inducing hysterics.  Her parents are very slow in figuring out that she is a nearly 6 month old breastfed baby who is very hungry!!!  I'm glad babies are resilient because I could kick myself for my stupidity last night.

    Solids next week :)

     
    36.
    Hostess
    7,632 posts
    Bumble
    Beekeeper
    MightySapphire      

    We had some adventures in babyland last night too!

    I took some advice (from this thread!) and decided not to let MB have her evening nap.  So while I was at choir practice, DH was home keeping her awake until I got home at 9:30.  Poor thing was trying SO HARD to fall asleep!  I got home and gave the go ahead for the bottle.  She drank two ounces and was OUT.  She woke at 1:30am to feed, and then again at 5:30am to feed, went right back to sleep both times.  It seemed to work well for her.  But DH still feel so bad for doing that to her.  I told him it was good for her, but he still feels bad.  I can't blame him, that's why I made him do it!  LOL

     

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