(Closed) 19 and Counting…the show…

posted 9 years ago in The Lounge
  • poll: Do you think the Duggers should continue to have more kids

    Yes

    No

    Don't care either way

    Who are the Duggers?

  • Post # 32
    Member
    1231 posts
    Bumble bee

    I don’t think they are disregarding science. Merely adding that God blessed them with a child. There is nothing wrong with feeling and believing that God plays a role in having children.

    That being said, I don’t care what they do. The kids are taken care of and they aren’t living off the system. They probably should take the pregnancy issues she has had as a sign from God telling her to stop. 19 children is plenty.

    Post # 33
    Member
    611 posts
    Busy bee
    • Wedding: October 2012

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    @AnneTossy:  but decisions and judgements are two different things. “Decision” means the government, whether local, state, or federal, has exercised its legal power to have some sort of say in what goes on. “Judgement” means internet strangers with opinions that will never directly impact a woman’s life.

    No elected official has any right under the sun to prevent Michelle Duggar from having any more children. But internet strangers have the right to their own opinions about it, ESPECIALLY when it concerns someone who has made the choice to televise her life, thus explicitly opening her life up to the public’s scrutiny.

    So to relate it back to the example you gave–I believe that the government should not have any involvement in women’s reproductive choices whatsoever. However, I would never expect or demand that individual people not have their own opinions about women’s reproductive decisions.

     

    Post # 34
    Member
    5117 posts
    Bee Keeper
    • Wedding: November 1999

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    @Juliepants:  I share your views.

    Post # 35
    Member
    611 posts
    Busy bee
    • Wedding: October 2012

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    @hisgoosiegirl:  I don’t see where anybody is suggesting someone ought to take away Michelle’s right to more kids… people are just saying they wish she wouldn’t.

    Post # 36
    Member
    5294 posts
    Bee Keeper
    • Wedding: January 1993

    View original reply
    @starbuck:  there have been previous threads on here where people have said there should be a limit. My point is, if this were flipped around, and were about abortion instead, the majority would be defending, not attacking, that choice.

    Post # 37
    Member
    218 posts
    Helper bee

    @ThingsThatShine  I completely disagree. They may not publically admit that they are part of the Quiverfull movement (I’ve actually heard people in the movement say that they have been given special permission to act more ‘secular’ as part of their ministry), but if it quacks like a duck …

     The Duggars are very high up in the Institute for Basic Life Teachings / ATI home-school cult. The ATI is led by a man (who has never had children) named Bill Gothard http://billgothard.com/news/churchwithpower . He provides home-schooling materials, which the Duggars use (the “Big Sandy” weekend they attend on the show every year is an ATI training conference). He also provides strict manuals which have rules, he develops, for raising children and women, which govern everything from how women should dress (no pants, no skirts above the knee, no showing of the shoulders or tight shirts, no bathing suits, women must have long hair, men cannot wear shorts etc.), to how women are to behave, what their role is in the home, their submission to their husbands and other men in their home etc. A strict rule governing the acceptance into the community is following all of the principals of the Quiverfull movement. 

    The Duggars have also made reference to being initially drawn to their lifestyle  (aka the Quiverfull movement) when they were introduced to Mary Pride’s book, “The Way Home: Beyond Feminism, Back to Reality” which many credit with being the grass roots catalyst to the Quiverfull Movement.

    I completely agree with the PP’s sentiment that a woman should be able to choose when to have children, and she should be the only one, in all circumstances, who has any say over her reproductive choices. I would still question this situation, as I’m not sure that Michelle (or women like her) really has a choice. A closely held belief of the followers of this lifestyle is that women are not allowed to turn down their husband’s requests for sex. They are not allowed to use any form of birth control (this includes natural birth control / the rhythm method). They are given a mandate to have as many children as possible, in order to make an army for the Lord. They are dominionists, who believe that the United States should be a theocracy and that it is their duty to outbreed the non-believers, so that in a few generations, they will out-vote the non-believers and the US will ‘return’ to its natural state of being a God centered state.  Women have to do all of the above with the heart of a ‘joyful servant’. Which explains why Michelle and the women of the Duggar family are always smiling. They are not allowed not to smile. To not be joyful is a sin.

    Perhaps, Michelle has chosen this for herself, with her eyes open. But she represents thousands of other women and girls, who are raised in this lifestyle. I’m not sure all of them have the same choice. One of the defining characteristics of the lifestyle is that women are not allowed to date. A man who wishes to date a woman has to ask permission from her father. The girl’s father then allows the man to get to know his family over a series of family events (called courting), often only lasting a couple of months. Following this process the woman becomes engaged to a man that she may not know very well, based on whether or not her father approves of the man.  There are many women who have escaped from this lifestyle who describe horrific abuses by men who have been given ownership over their wives and children, sanctioned by Gothard and the ATI. These women are shunned by their communities and often left to raise a dozen or more children, with no financial assistance and no education or ability to get a job. If you want to read some of these women’s stories, I would check out this blog: http://nolongerquivering.com/ (I am in no way affiliated with these women, or this group, I have been researching this issue for a while, out of my own interest). 

    I like the show, I think the children are sweet. However, they represent a movement that potentially has very serious consequences for women.

    Post # 38
    Member
    906 posts
    Busy bee
    • Wedding: October 2012

    View original reply
    @Juliepants:  

    this. I know if u put ureself on TV ppl of course are going to judge you. But I don’t understand why ppl r so harsh with this family. They have zero sent before the show with 19 kids! I think they r amazing

    Post # 39
    Member
    1128 posts
    Bumble bee
    • Wedding: November 2011

    I don’t really care either way because its not my life its theirs and what they do does not affect me, to each their own!

    Post # 40
    Member
    7581 posts
    Bumble Beekeeper
    • Wedding: December 2010

    I think the Duggars are amazing parents. Yes, the older kids have to pitch in, but that’s what family is all about. There are so many other families that are such a mess, but I rarely see a thread about them not having children. However, the Duggars have come up on this site multiple times (as well as other sites that I have seen) full of woman pointing their fingers at her and her family saying it’s time to stop. It’s not our decision what she does.

    We also have never heard from HER doctors, just some others saying that it is taking a toll on her body, which of course a ton of other doctors will also chime in and say it’s fine. We don’t know the specifics of her uterus. 

    I’m glad I get to make my own reproductive choices as of now, and therefore, I’m thankful she does as well.

    Post # 41
    Member
    1805 posts
    Buzzing bee

    View original reply
    @starbuck:  I obviously realize the differences between judgements/decisions.

    I believe I said:

    ‘I mean, with all this birth control/abortion talk going on in politics it’s kind of hypocritical to be all ‘a woman should be the only one making decisions for her own body’ yet sit here and make decisions/judgements on what another woman should do with her body. I know it’s 2 completely different things, but those are just my thoughts on the whole thing.’

    It just seems a little hypocritical to me. But again, if people feel like getting their panties in a twist because of a family on tv reproducing..that’s their right. I also said:

    I mean, for her health-wise she should probably stop. But if they have the love and the means to support more, I’m not here to judge.’

    Would it probably be best if she stopped? Yes. Do I care if she doesn’t? Nope. She’s a big girl and will the choice she believes is right for her.
     

    Post # 42
    Member
    9024 posts
    Buzzing Beekeeper
    • Wedding: June 2011

    I dont really watch this show that much, but the commercials the OP is referring to are about their 20th baby that was still born/miscarried. This happened a while ago but I  guess its only now coming to tv. so its not like they are trying again after that (atleast as far as I am aware)

    Post # 43
    Member
    826 posts
    Busy bee

    @spicyrutabaga (my iPod won’t let me click “reply”)- if I’m not mistaken, they were directly asked if they were Quiverfull in one of their interviews, and they stated that they do not consider themselves to be part of that movement. They might as well be, but because they have made this statement, I do not like to say they are Quiverfull.

    Post # 44
    Member
    980 posts
    Busy bee
    • Wedding: June 2012

    I heart the Duggars! The family clearly has a lot of love, and to say the parents don’t spend enough time and attention one each kid – well, unless your name is J. Duggar, I don’t think you can comment on it. To me, the kids seem polite, family oriented, and pretty happy, and Jim Bob and Michelle seem crazy in love.

    Post # 45
    Member
    7286 posts
    Busy Beekeeper
    • Wedding: October 2011

    In other cultures and time periods….. older kids help out with the younger ones…………………….. ** gasp**. Children are seen as a blessing… *Oh the horror!*

     

    Post # 46
    Member
    2861 posts
    Sugar bee
    • Wedding: June 2014

    Children are a blessing and a wonderful thing, but at what cost? Should she have to die and leave her 19 children she already has motherless before she stops? She had serious complications last time, pre-e being one of the issues. Pre-e gets worse in subsequent pregnancies, not better. She can pop out kids until her uterus falls out or she dies, that’s her business. But I am allowed to have n opinion on it and I think it is selfish and foolish. 

    The topic ‘19 and Counting…the show…’ is closed to new replies.

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