Post # 16
angelbritney : I hear your point, and I think there is truth in it when you’re dealing with a man who would rather not be married. But I don’t agree with the broad brush stroke that men in general don’t want marriage and women do. If a man doesn’t want to be married he should find a woman who has the same hang ups about marriage and they can avoid it together. I don’t agree that a woman should have to lead her partner to it – he should want it as much as she does. Both parties gain the same things from it!
Post # 17
I think you have grossly oversimplified the situation and, incidentally, made sex far too important a factor .
Your view that what young men ALL want constitues the essence of human nature is rather distressing to me and confirms my belief that we have actually gone backwards in terms of women’s position in society in many ways .
Your belief that it is somehow better for women to trade their virginity for a wedding ring and that it is also better for men and , presumably society in general to have it happen that way is reactionary to say the very least . Well , fine “you do you” as that silly phrase has it . But be aware of what such a view also says. It says that women who do not so trade are lesser, it says that children born from unmarried unions are lesser, it says that women who choose unmarried unions deserve all the heartache that comes with the disappointment of a man who cannot commit .
And what, I wonder, do you think the young men whose apparently desperate need (human nature according to you) do for sex . Or is it OK to have ‘good’ and ‘bad’ girls with concomitant rewards and punishments?
Post # 18
elena91 : yes, i did remind him about 3 weeks ago and he said ‘yep all over it’. So i guess we will wait and see. We do have a mini weekend away this weekend so fingers crossed!
Post # 19
azf0019 : “Im sorry you have family and friends breathing down your neck. It makes me sooo angry when people ask those invasive questions. Like, obviously when something happens, you’ll tell them, and they should assume that because you *havent* told them, nothing’s happened, right?”
This, so much. Obviously there hasn’t been an announcement. I always wonder why, if they’re so concerned or nosy- why don’t they ask the freaking guy?!?!
Hereforthecake : sunburn : sassy411 : Another member of the Old Bees Club here totally side-eyeing this guy. FWIW once you have the huge commitment of a child together, you shouldn’t even need to have timeline talks etc. And OP owns businesses and a home with him as well- is he actually expecting her to be surprised by a proposal at this point?!?!
If it is soooo important for guys to have their Super Speshul Surprise Moment- the way to accomplish this is by proposing sooner rather than later. You don’t expect your partner to wait for years and ‘never see it coming’ and you most certainly don’t expect the mother of your child/business partner & home co-owner to sit in Disney Princess patient silence while you piss around about it. And I wish every single Bee whose partner claims she’s ‘ruining it’ by asking about it would tell him to GTFO himself- because HE is the one who let the ‘surprise’ element sail off the horizon and HE is the one ruining it with procrastination/ stalling/ excuses etc.
And if he is planning a proposal- why wait until the very end of the timeline to do it? I just for the life of me don’t get this. As the window of opportunity narrows as the timeline nears, this just adds unnecessary waiting b.s. to the equation.
Post # 20
elderbee : You need to re-read my post, and you may be shocked to find that I never said “all” young men. And congratulations on being that predictable person who got angry. Since sex is not that important in your view, and nobody in the waiting section seems to know what these men are thinking, it would be good for you to offer your own theories on why young men keep doing this. That will be very helpful for everyone here.
Post # 21
angelbritney : I think you make a valid point, although I’d substitute living together, buying property, and having children in place of sex. It would be different if the modern woman didn’t want marriage, but we see that they do, across races, cultures and couuntries. So basically when you boil it down, some women are looking forward to an engagement solely because they want it. But someone else’s needs and desires are not a powerful motivator.
Post # 22
sunburn : Okay. Of course if women don’t have sex before marriage, then living together is out of the question and children are impossible. And no sane woman is going to buy a house with a guy they have no relations with. So it would appear that the availability or absence of sex can actually make these other things either relevant or irrelevant. Weirdly it seems like sex determines the progression of (almost) everything else besides development of the relationship through conversation.
Post # 23
jjrr : I would start preparing to end things and let him notice or he may ignore the timeline thinking you are not serious.
Post # 24
jjrr : How did the weekend getaway go?
Post # 25
angelbritney : tell me you aren’t saying that women should incentivize respectful commitment with access to their vaginas. *barf*. Thank you, but I want a man that wants to be with me for everything I bring to the table, not just to get his dick wet. Anybody can give a blowjob. Anybody can have sex. Even though I bring sex to the table, my Fiance proposed for a multitude of other reasons.
this is like saying if men didn’t go down on until their woman made dinner or did laundry then things would get done much quicker around the house. 1 word… vibrators.
Post # 26
“tell me you aren’t saying that women should incentivize respectful commitment with access to their vaginas. *barf*. Thank you, but I want a man that wants to be with me for everything I bring to the table, not just to get his dick wet. Anybody can give a blowjob. Anybody can have sex. Even though I bring sex to the table, my Fiance proposed for a multitude of other reasons”
Exactly. I don’t need to incentivize anyone to marry me by withholding sex, cohabitation, maid services, or whatever else we are supposed to do to “get” a man to gift us with marriage. Why? Because I am equal to my partner in every way. I don’t have to exchange sex for a ring. If a man won’t marry you because he already has “everything he wants,” it’s not because you didn’t play the game correctly by suggesting that he needs to pony up his (reluctant) committment to earn your services. It’s because you’re dating a jerk.
Post # 27
jjrr : Honestly, the fact that he said “yep, all over it” is a good sign. A bad sign would be “about that, <enter a typical excuse>”
Post # 29
I know a few men who are genuine, die-hard commitment phobes.
They just really like living alone, like having everything their own way, and really don’t want a long-term partner. Honestly, a woman could come along who is Victoria’s Secret model, a brain surgeon, a stand-up comedian, and a Nigella Lawson level cook all rolled into one and they’d find some reason to sabotage the relationship.
I really do think some men either just aren’t ready to get married or just never will be. It has nothing to do with the woman. (For these men; of course, there are plenty of men who won’t commit to their girlfriends because they know she’s not the one.)
Post # 30
indigobee : oh I quite understand that. That’s why if you’re serious about marriage you leave this type of man, before committing yourself to a house and child with him.