Post # 76
The reason there’s not a men’s rights movement is because up until very recently, men HAD all the rights. All of the “men’s issues” you are naming are recent developments, not discrimination which has been ingrained for hundreds of years. Men can go right ahead and fight for what they want – but I don’t see why women should have to do it for them, given the amount of resistance we still face from men in achieving equal rights for ourselves.
You also contradict yourself when you state that behavior is determined by gender. One of your “men’s issues” is that most of the children medicated for behavior problems are male. Well, if being aggressive and dominant are inborn male behaviors, then why would it be any different? You can’t say that males are treated differently because they’re discriminated against, but then turn around and say that males and females should be treated differently because they’re innately different from each other.
Last thing – when stereotypically male or female traits are studied over populations, you will find that differences among individual men or women are greater than the differences between men and women as groups. So while one individual man may be much more “masculine” than one individual woman, a group of ten thousand men is not likely to be that much more “masculine” as a whole than a group of ten thousand women. That’s why you can see yourself as feminine and nurturing, while luckyprincess, Entangled, and I are the exact opposite. It’s a bell curve – some women are extremely nurturing, some women are not at all nurturing, and the majority are somewhere in between.
Post # 77
I’m enjoying it too!!! 🙂 I would totally have a glass of wine with you and talk all night, I’m sure of it.
The idea that women and men differ in these abstract (women are more charitable and loving, men are more agressive and cold) ways is by no means one accepted by all or even most in the science world. I know the studies you are talking about but I also (just checked to make sure I didn’t sound nuts :P) recall that they are mostly talking about how the brain works mostly regarding language skills, perception (especially to underlying emotion), and phsyical differences. They don’t say that women are more nurturing by nature. Also, I think a lot of those ‘what toy will the baby choose’ studies were debunked because these were infants that were already dressed in pink at birth, slept in a blue room with sports mobiles over their crib, welcomed into the world with either a pink blanky or blue blanky and so on. There was no sterile environment for them to not have a preference. If you only gave a girl trucks in ALL walks of life she would pick trucks. This is what the girls toys aisle looks like at a normal store. Studies like that don’t work when they are bombarded with this everyday in real life:
As a matter of fact, I found this blurb at the end of one of the study articles, by a doctor that headed one study:
“No”, says Dr. Pearlson. “To say this means that men are automatically better at some things than women is a simplification. It’s easy to find women who are fantastic at math and physics and men who excel in language skills. Only when we look at very large populations and look for slight but significant trends do we see the generalizations. There are plenty of exceptions, but there’s also a grain of truth, revealed through the brain structure, that we think underlies some of the ways people characterize the sexes.”
I do totally agree with you about needing to fight for rights for equality for all. Regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, religion – whatever. Equality doesn’t mean to beat one group down to raise the other up. I do know that there are people fighting for the things that you mentioned. They are a small group now but don’t all life changing groups seem to start out that way? 🙂 A real feminist will fight for their rights, too. Saying ‘the definition changed so I’ll change along with it’ is a defeatist attitude. Like I said, I’ll be damned if I let anyone control me by trying to make something positive into something negative. I won’t let it work and I won’t let them dishonor the good men and women that worked hard to even get equality to be talked about. If it’s worth it you can bet it’s gonna be hard. 😛
Post # 78
I’m a feminist. I know some feminists can be very forceful and over-the-top in their views, but I don’t want to let that handful push me away from the term.
Post # 79
I am loving the smart, intelligent responses on this thread! Admittedly, I am totally baffled by those who “are not feminists but believe in equal rights”. Also baffled by the comments about not agreeing with “today’s feminism”. Hm.
I don’t get that either!!
Post # 81
Not meant to be snarky (honestly!), but when I hear of people (male, female, or otherwise) differentiating between their being egalitarian and their being feminist it does throw me for a bit of a loop.
“I’m not a feminist, but I definitely believe in equality” to me sounds a bit like saying “I’m not a vegetarian, but I definitely don’t eat meat of any kind”. *head scratch*
That said, I do understand if people explicate their view if they are wont to reject labels. That makes sense.
Post # 82
When I was younger and more sheltered, I wouldn’t have considered myself one. I was all for equal rights regardless of gender, but I thought of it more as an issue in other countries, or at least other places. I knew there were different types of people who labelled themselves feminists, but I did tend to associate the word more with the stereotypical ‘type’.
Now, I do consider myself a feminist, and the word doesn’t have the same association that it used to for me. Sometimes, when I see some sexist crap going on I will rant to DH, they are making me be a feminist! I see now where equality is still an issue here.