About to have our third child, still no engagement!

posted 2 months ago in Engagement
Post # 90
Member
80 posts
Worker bee

crustyoldbee :  I found these threads awhile back while looking for pictures of warm colored diamonds. I really only read them occasionally, or if looking for pictures of ring. I clearly don’t generally respond, or hadn’t, but I think you’re all being overly harsh and I thought her title was interesting which is why I read it to begin with. Not that this means anything, but my background/degree is actually in psychology and I’m not sure what you all read, but I read a lady saying she is pretty happy in her relationship and would just like to officially be engaged. I totally understood that and just wanted to offer her some support. Clearly none of us know all the circumstances surrounding each other and why we do what we do. I believe I did tell her if he doesn’t want to save for the ring then address that issue, but who are you all to tell her her problem is actually different than what she is stating?? And how do we know what her finances will be like three years from now? Maybe someone is finishing school?? Or training?? As for me, I appreciate your concern, but again, it’s not needed. It’s entirely possible to have a healthy relationship before the ring. There are all kinds of reasons people wait. Rushing out to get married clearly isn’t smart either considering half end in divorce. We built a beautiful life together with the same commitment before and after the ring. I’m the planner and coordinator in our relationship so yes, my fiance built up loads of anxiety around delivering the perfect propsal. And on a personal note, I have already been widowed from my first husband, planned a wedding and had a heartache. A lot of the people on this site are already married, talking about babies or just looking at pictures, as I was. Not exactly sure how I’m fooling anyone by being on here? I set my wedding in three years which is when I feel my kids will be old enough, our main renovations will be completed and I will have time to fully focus. Right now I’m getting ideas.  Some of the advice on here is absolutely terrible, aggressive and not all that helpful. Maybe adjust your approach, if someone feels attacked they generally shut down…but hey, that’s just my opinion.  I don’t feel like a did a disservice to anyone. I wasn’t responding to every bee on here, I was responding to this particular bee. If you are happy in your relationship and want to commit your life to someone then you should be working together, not setting ultimatums. If someone is UNHAPPY, that’s a different story, but she stated she was happy and that’s how I felt so I offered my experience for support. Side note, if you are PLANNING children together that’s clearly, in all reality, a bigger commitment than marriage as it’s a tie that will bond you forever.

Post # 91
Member
63 posts
Worker bee

DeniseSecunda :  Depending on where the OP is located, the legal protections of marriage may already be in place. I got the impression they’re in the UK? If they’re in the US, I completely agree with you. It seems that in some other countries though they may have significant legal rights as a cohabitating couple even without being married.

Post # 92
Member
11628 posts
Sugar Beekeeper

claroquesi :  That and more than a little unrealistic and unwise. 

Post # 93
Member
16 posts
Newbee

birefringence :  Its a common mistake for people in the UK to think they have the same rights as married couples if they are cohabiting. 

The reality is that whilst people use the term ‘common law man/wife’, they don’t actually have any legal recognition and have fewer rights to their partners assets than a married couple would. Lots of women who have had kids with men they are not married to have been in for a shock when they split or their partner has died. 

Op mentioned in her first post about avoiding posting on another forum named ‘Mumsnet’. Mumsnet is heavily UK based website and every single post on wanting to marry there is dominated by people dispelling the myth of common law rights and driving home how vulnerable these women and their children are if they remain just living together. 

 

Post # 94
Member
63 posts
Worker bee

-RubyShoes- :  Thank you for filling me in. An (internet) friend of mine lives there with her teenager and boyfriend of multiple decades and she’s mentioned not seeing any reason for them to ever get married, so that has colored my impression. 

Post # 97
Member
10431 posts
Sugar Beekeeper
  • Wedding: City, State

impatientlypatientlywaiting :  

What am I reading here, Bee?

You have two children, soon to be three.  Those children are your highest priorities.  Period.

Unless you and your bf are super high earners, spending thousands on a big party is not just insane, it’s irresponsible.  Of course, you are allowed to want all of that.  But, adulting, and especially parenting, means accepting that you don’t get everything you want when you want it. Perhaps someday you can do a lovely vow renewal.  Lots of people do.

What matters now; since funds are, apparently, limited, is the well being of your precious children. Is there such a thing as life insurance in the UK?  What provisions have you made to secure your children’s futures?  How are things structured to provide  for them if something happens to one or both of you? What about future educational expenses; again, this could be different in the UK, but, you get the idea.

Hiw much cash do you have in your emergency fund?

Worrying about a wedding is preposterous in your situation.

Of course, we still haven’t made it to Step One—the proposal.  

Post # 99
Member
16 posts
Newbee

birefringence :  Yeah its a really common misconception here.

You can certainly find ways around some of the problems – ie renting/buying property as joint tennants, making wills stating your partner inherits everything, making sure all your money is held in joint accounts rather than separate. All of them are rather more work than just heading down to a registry office and signing a marriage certificate. 

Other stuff is still much tricker without marriage – the woman wont have access to her partners pension if he dies. If they split, she cant claim any maintenance to compensate for the fact she may have given up her career/earnings to look after the children (like you could in divorce). Next of kin decisions can also be very difficult if the family want to take over life and death decisions. 

 

Post # 100
Member
10431 posts
Sugar Beekeeper
  • Wedding: City, State

-RubyShoes- :  

All of those matters are easily fixable by a qualified attorney. We don’t even know if such a thing as joint tenancy exists in the UK; or if they’re in a position to buy a home. An attorney will know the mechanisms by which title to real property can be held in OP’s jurisdiction.

Questions regarding property rights can be managed under contract, rather than community property law.  That’s how prenups work in the US. I have no idea if similar contractual arrangements can be made in the UK.

Their priority should be their children and protecting their interests.  In the US, life insurance would be a no brainer. Many employers offer at least some coverage, hassle free, ie no physical exam. Young parents should carry a crap ton of life insurance. It’s cheap and easy to get when you’re young and healthy.

In the US, the inter vivos, or living trust is a very good way to go. They can be fairly uncomplicated and inexpensive to set up (Legalzoom).  It avoids burdening your children with probate costs, which are astronomical, and outstrip all but very large estates, and estate taxes.

Perhaps our UK Bees know of similar options for ensuring the wellbeing of OP’s children.

Post # 101
Member
16 posts
Newbee

sassy411 :  Speaking as a UK bee, I would suggest the best thing for OP to do in order to secure the well being of her and her children is to go to to her local registry office and get married! Cheaper, quicker and easier than having to go through the effort of all the work arounds.

It will cost her about £120 and she can still have her bigger ‘wedding’ celebration in a few years once they have saved up.

Post # 102
Member
10431 posts
Sugar Beekeeper
  • Wedding: City, State

-RubyShoes- :  

Aaaahhh, yes!  The only fly in the ointment there is getting bf on board! 😏

Post # 103
Member
541 posts
Busy bee

sassy411 :  Agree with both you and Ruby Shoes- but if her bf won’t get on board then at least OP will have some answers as to where he really stands. 

Post # 104
Member
80 posts
Worker bee

I live in the US, but all the above mentioned things are great advice regardless of marital status here. Even if you’re married, according to our lawyer, you are better protected by already having everything set up to go to each other. It doesn’t necessarily just go to the other person in some cases. Also, the living will and trust let’s you spell out the fate of your children if something were to happen to you, for example, the order of people you would want your children to go to if something happened. We had all of that setup long before being engaged; properties left to the other person upon death, a living will and trust, joint accounts, retirement account and pension in the each other’s name and life insurance. It was literally minutes of work to accomplish that whole list aside from the few hours spent with our lawyer. I believe someone in the UK above posted those things are options in the UK above so it is possible the OP already has all of these steps secured as well.

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