(Closed) And this is why I have an issue

posted 10 years ago in The Lounge
Post # 32
Member
1480 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: December 2010

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@Magdalena: Yeah, I read the article. I had no trouble understanding it. I’m also not surprised that this conversation includes discussion on gay marriage, since we’re talking about the Pope once again dictating who does or does not have the right to marry.

So yeah, folks get their backs up when the Pope starts talking about marriage rights. I am not going to give him any credit for preventing anullments, not when he is also responsible for inciting intolerance and the denial of a basic human right to millions of people around the world. That’s why I and others have “gotten onto that.”

 

 

Post # 33
Member
101 posts
Blushing bee
  • Wedding: October 2011

Hey. Just to be clear: that article you linked to was referring only to Catholics getting married in the Catholic Church. 

The Catholic Church would never presume to say that Jews, or Protestants, or Atheists should get Catholic premarital counseling. That doesn’t make any sense.  

And no, not every Catholic has a right to waltz into the church and demand to get married on the spot without any premarital counseling. To the Justice of the Peace? Sure! I approve of that. I approve of men marrying men at the courthouse, and women marrying women. But you have to understand that for us Catholics, a Catholic wedding – again, not a legal wedding, a Catholic wedding – is a precious, precious sacrament just as important as the body and blood of Christ that is shared with all the church. 

Nobody is making anyone have Catholic marriages at gunpoint. If you want to join the church, you have to be reasonable and expect to live up to the church’s teachings. If you don’t believe in the teachings, you are free to live a rewarding and love-filled life apart from the church. Everyone is loved; everyone is going to be okay. 

Sometimes I want to say, just gently: don’t tell me what my beliefs should be. Don’t tell me how much my beliefs suck. Why don’t you just leave it alone? If you don’t believe in Allah, then you’re not Muslim. That’s okay. But don’t go around saying “The reason that those Muslims are so wrong is because they believe in Allah. Nobody can tell ME to believe in Allah!” I mean, it’s obvious that you don’t believe in their structure, so why make a big deal of it? What if I went around saying “you should believe in Jesus and the Pope or else you’ll be so totally wrong”? I would probably get kicked off of these message boards.

You have your beliefs. You’re not Catholic, or even religious. That’s fine. Nobody’s making you. But please don’t open up the doors to my church, where everyone is there by choice because we are a community of people who happens to believe the same thing, and tell us that we’re “doing it wrong.” Everyone believes in God or the universe their own way. Nobody’s trying to control your non-Catholic marriage. 

Post # 34
Member
1309 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: December 2011

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@Dollygold: What the heck? The Pope actually said the exact opposite about condoms and Africa.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AK01Q20101121

Seriously!? What is with the ignorance on the Bee? It’s fine to not be religious but at least take the time to be educated about it.

Post # 35
Member
2714 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: May 2012

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@Lapeaudesoie:Hey. Just to be clear: that article you linked to was referring only to Catholics getting married in the Catholic Church.

THANK YOU! I don’t get what the big deal is? If you don’t like it, don’t get married in the Catholic Church. Am I missing something?

I am pro-gay marriage as a social union/legal contract. I believe that it should be legal in the US. I also believe that the Church has a right to marry or not marry whoever they please. The Church isn’t saying you can’t get married, they’re saying you can’t get married by them.

Post # 36
Member
843 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: June 2011

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@Ms Sassy: It’s not about who you can and cannot marry.  It’s about if you want to get married in the church with a priest’s blessing.  You can marry whomever you want through a random officiant, but if you want a priest’s blessing and to marry in the church then you have to follow their rules.  I don’t see a problem in that.  The church has the right to say no to something they don’t believe just the same as you.

Post # 37
Member
843 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: June 2011

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@Lapeaudesoie: Thank you so much, I’m protestant but share the same views as you in that I get so hurt when people tell me how bad my views are.  That’s fine if you don’t agree with them, I’m not forcing you to believe them!  I leave you alone with your views, leave me alone with mine!

Post # 38
Member
3148 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: August 2012

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@TinyTina: Agree, that is why I said it’s a government issue, not a religion deal.  As I said previously… if it was legal in all states, do you think people would care about the Catholics views as much?  No, they wouldn’t.

Post # 39
Member
3165 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: October 2011

@Ms Sassy: so what, did you see a headline and decide to explode with hatred without reading it and realizing that it doesn’t pertain to you at all?

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Magdalena,
View original reply
Lapeaudesoie,
View original reply
TinyTina and
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jenewitt all got it right.

It’s funny how people can claim to be so openminded but are completely ignorant and bigoted when it comes to the big bad Catholic Church. Undecided

Post # 40
Member
206 posts
Helper bee

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@Magdalena: Actually, in 2009 he said the exact opposite. It was only after serious backlash that he changed his mind with what your article is in reference to.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLH936617._CH_.2400

Too easily forgotten apparently. So, I will choose to ignore your ignorance comment since it seemed you were the misinformed one.

“It’s fine to not be religious but at least take the time to be educated about it.”

Same for those of you who are religious 🙂

Post # 41
Member
250 posts
Helper bee

Ok here is my opinion, for what it is worth.  I believe that anyone should have the right to go to a justice of the peace and be joined in marriage.  However, I think it is 100% wrong to force a pastor, priest, rabbi, etc. to marry 2 people.  If a religious leader doesn’t believe in gay marriage then they should not be forced to marry them (no one is forced to perform my ceremony as a straight person).  It just doesn’t make sense.  We have separation of church and state in this country (supposedly) so I don’t believe that the government has any right to tell the church that they have to marry anyone who wants to get married.  However, since the Justice of the Peace is a part of the government and I do believe that they should have to marry anyone who wants to get married.  I also believe that each state should be able to set the law for gay marriage.  That is what the 10th amendment says and I am a constitution lover!

ETA: As to the OPs link, I have no problem what so ever with the Catholic Church setting up “rules” for being married in their Church.  If you don’t like it, go some place else to get married.

Post # 42
Member
1557 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: June 2011

Personally, I can see both sides of this.

I agree with Magdalena that the article itself is about annulments, not gay marriage. 

That being said, I am a very liberal person, and I’m not particularly religious, so I agree that religion should have no place is passing marriage laws. That is a government issue, and should be left as such.

HOWEVER, I also understand that a person who is religious has guidelines of their own religion to follow as well. If someone is Catholic, then they not only need to understand the legal guidelines that they will be contracted into by getting married, but they also need to understand and respect the religious doctrine as well. 

What the pope is saying is that too many people are get married on a whim in the Catholic church, and because the church doesn’t allow divorce, they then attempt to get it annulled so they can be allowed to remarry.

If they can’t get it annulled, then they either have to stay married, or get a divorce. If they get a legal divorce, their first marriage will still be recognized by the church, and they will not ever be allowed to remarry within the Catholic church. This happened to FI’s parents- they were married in the church, and now neither is Catholic b/c they chose to get a divorce. 

In my mind, marriage is always a legal contract, and the religious aspect of it is an optional choice that a couple can opt into based on their chosen religious affiliation. If they don’t take their religion seriously enough to follow its rules, then they shouldn’t be allowed to get married in that religions house of worship. They can still get married, just not within the church. 

 

Post # 43
Member
843 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: June 2011

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@mncrk09: I completely agree with everything you just said.

Post # 44
Member
2286 posts
Buzzing bee
  • Wedding: November 2010

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@tinylittlebird: I totally agree with you.

The article is regarding Catholics. Let’s keep that in perspective and make sure that all the facts are checked first.

ETA: I married a Catholic and there were a few steps we had to take before I could do that. Before I met him, I realize now that I had a lot of misconceptions regarding Catholicism that were, frankly, hostile and unfair. Now I’m careful to research a topic before making a judgement call.

Post # 45
Member
1557 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: June 2011

@MissHelen: You are absolutely right. Understanding the facts is so important.

I know that I’m not 100% knowledgeable on the Catholic faith, but one of my best friends is Catholic, and I’ve known her since I was little. I’m in her wedding, and she and I have had a lot of conversations about her faith and how it works. 

I know that she takes her faith very seriously, and if she were reading this article she would agree with what it says. People who disagree would either a) not be Catholic or b) not be a very good Catholic. 

Post # 46
Member
2319 posts
Buzzing bee
  • Wedding: July 2011

Wow, what an intense discussion. I just had my first pre-marital class (I am not Catholic or even Christian) and it was presided over by a deacon and his wife of 40 years. I was very skeptical of this class because according to myself I ‘know all there is to know about my relationship with my S.O’. However, their ultimate goal for having this class is to just ensure that we trust ourselves in taking this step in our life seriously.

Many couples in the class have been together for 7-10 years and only just decided to marry (due to circumstances in their life). So clearly, they all know each other well and all they want is to be married and done with it. (And possibly even living together). Even after all these years sometimes people are not sure as they do not sometimes give themselves the opportunity to find out what they really want out of life. They tend to give into gimmicks or do it ‘because that’s just the thing to do’. The class asks some very difficult questions of yourselves. If you already know all the questions and answers, that’s great! But not everyone does. The church is giving that little extra push to get yourself thinking critically about your life.

The class is not there to judge the couples’ ‘marriageable-ness’, the class is to rejuvinate the seriousness of marriage within yourself. Even when you are not married, yet common-law, you will feel differently in the exact same relationship.

However, since it is the church after all, they will throw in words of God in the mix. And even if you take out everything they say ‘God related’, the class still makes sense.

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