If you feel strongly about standing during the National Anthem….

posted 2 years ago in The Lounge
Post # 376
Member
485 posts
Helper bee

SoonMrsCrocker2 :  One side is right on one thing. one right on other but no side is always right or wrong. 

Go ahead, say that there were fine people on both sides.  You know you want to.  

Post # 377
Member
326 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: July 2017

SoonMrsCrocker2 :  You’re right. It’s hard. But being apathetic and choosing not to engage with information AT ALL doesn’t help anything, it’s just another form of ignorance. In roder to be a responsible, informed public, we HAVE to do the work. Check multiple sources. Try to find as much of the story as possible. 

Post # 379
Member
1406 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: June 2013

Thank you OP, for trying to understand another point of view. I am not a fan of Donald Trump. He is offensive, abrasive, unpresidential, and many other things. Hated the choice I had on election day between Trump and Hillary.

I understand the players not wanting to be bullied by Trump. I understand their concerns about police brutality. I wish they had protested in another way. Perhaps if they had kneeled before the anthem began, then stood during the anthem. To me this would have said: We have problems to fix, but this is our country and we support it.

What they did during the anthem was, in my opinion, disrespectful to the country and the people who died for it. My uncle died in war. My husband came under gunfire while in the military. I think the NFL players and owners should have known that their protest would not just be perceived as against Trump, but would offend many veterans and their families.

They have every right to protest; we have every right to turn off our television sets.

As for the KKK, I am not sure exactly what you are referring to. I cannot speak to what the Republican party did, because I am a registered independent. I abhor the KKK. I taught my child about all the terrible things the KKK has done in this country. Our Constitution gives them the right to assemble, speak and write – peacefully, but also gives the rest of us the right to speak out against them and boycott. I am horrified by any violent acts they commit, and if anyone on the NFL started promoting the KKK, I would join the firestorm of protest.

Post # 380
Member
326 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: July 2017

Carolsays :  But Tamir Rice died for for our country, too. As did 308 other black Americans murdered by police in just 2016. If you understand WHY they’re protesting, how, in good conscience, can you divert the conversation AWAY from that? Based on something as arbitrary and subjective as “respect” for our country?

Post # 381
Member
1326 posts
Bumble bee

After pages of discussion on this, which has been largely thoughtful and respectful, it’s clear that some feel very strongly that this protest is disrespectful to the flag and/or military.  It’s their perogative to see it this way.  They can’t be thought policed, nor should they be. It’s also their perogative to boycott the NFL or their advertisers, etc.  I would be impressed with anyone that had the conviction to do that.  Because when it comes to football, get real, most (all?) are not going to stop watching.  

What is of interest to me is if people that feel this way still agree that it is a legitimate form of American protest, or do they classify it as an act of anti Americanism.

Those words – anti-American / un-american, appeared many times in my social media feeds.  That is dangerous to me. That is the unique danger Trump has cultivated and perpetuated. It’s what scares me in our ability to survive Trump.

So, Carolsays :  since you wrote a long, thoughtful and nuanced reply that I can empathize with I would like to ask you that question.  If you’d be generous enough to reply, would you call these protests anti American? 

Post # 382
Member
7432 posts
Busy Beekeeper
  • Wedding: October 2014

You know what’s disrespectful to this country and everyone who wore a uniform to defend it?  Using the military as a prop. That is disrespectful as hell. When the NFL players kneel, all of a sudden we are up in arms over the sancitiy of this 9-year-old tradition (if we can be bothered to pay attention at all, since we might be right in the middle of buying nachos when they start singing), but when it’s time to actually do something for veterans, we can’t bear the thought of our taxes going up to pay for their housing or medical care and we aren’t going to give up our Saturday volunteering anywhere. It’s a hollow gesture and very few of us ever (ever!!!) do anything more than this. So let’s all stop pretending that these protests are somehow taking something away from veterans; it isn’t. And let’s stop using the troops as a political pawn. We CAN listen to Kaepernick’s message and  support our military at the same time. We CAN help refugees and help veterans at the same time. We CAN respect veterans and support marginalized people at the same time.  We need to stop using the vets as an excuse for  why we can’t or shouldn’t help someone else.  

Post # 383
Member
1326 posts
Bumble bee

A good start would be using the vets to help the vets.  It is beyond hypocritical to freak out over football protests with the claim that it disrespects vets by the same people that have never lifted a finger or made a phone call to demand better actual care for vets.  

I have a handyman, I retired carpenter that does all kinds of small jobs for me in my old ass house.  He can do anything.  And he’s a really kind, smart and interesting guy.  We sit for coffee together & chat when he finishes each time he comes.  He served in Vietnam, he served for 19 years.  He has heart problems.  His VA doctor keeps telling him that he has to get his teeth fixed and healthy because it is dangerous to his heart not to.  He’s 60 years old, a normal age to have dental issues.  But he has no dental coverage and he can’t afford to get the work done he needs.

Why on earth the VA doesn’t cover the dental he needs, as urged by his heart doctor is beyond me.  

He charges such a cheap rate and I told him he should charge more.  He said no one wants to pay, some younger guy will do it for less.  

Apparently his serving, his veteran status isn’t important enough for people to choose to support him over a younger cheaper guy.  I guarentee that some, or many, of these people are up in arms about the football protest being disrespectful to veterans.       

Post # 384
Member
1406 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: June 2013

wildflowerz :  Any protest that is non violent, that does not involve the destruction of other people’s property, and does not violate laws (such as blocking traffic) is legitimate in the sense that the government has no right to stop it. Nothing can protect the protesters from some members of the public responding with disgust or boycott.

I am not sure how to define anti-American, and I do not know how anti-American each of these players feels. I do not know who among them, if anyone, has given up on America altogether and hates the country. But even “anti-American” protests would be protected by the Constitution if it conforms to what I have described above.

Post # 385
Member
1326 posts
Bumble bee

Carolsays :  Ok, love, thank you for responding. Lterally none of them feel anti American.  If and when asked about their feelings or for a statement on the protest, they all say they love America first and foremost.  They have done well in America, NFL football is solely an American thing and they embody it.  They feel thankful for very opportunity they have.

They aren’t anti American at all.  They would never bother protesting if they were.  They are trying to make it a better place.  

It sounds like you do not view them or their demonstrations as anti American, yes?

Post # 386
Member
1580 posts
Bumble bee

I’m confused about the proests against the NFL re: players kneeling during the National Anthem…because aren’t those who are protesting the NFL by not watching it, missing out on an opportunity to stand themselves and listen to the National Anthem…

Post # 387
Member
1326 posts
Bumble bee

SisterJude :  Or better yet, the offended Americans that booed right into and over the national anthem.  

It was beyond ironic.  To hear a booing over our national anthem certainly made me notice.  

Patriots made a silent demonstration that did not intrude on the anthem.   

Some people boo’d right over the anthem.

Post # 388
Member
117 posts
Blushing bee

As a person who did not grow up in the U.S. but lives here  now, these calls from politics figures and citizens to forbid football players and students from protesting peacefully are both crazy and scary to see coming from a country that used to hold freedom in its core values.

As a black person, I’d like to share my experience to those who say that these players should focus on the game and not bringing their political opinions. Knowing that men, women and child get killed for having the same skin color as you and those you love, and that those responsible for killing them won’t ever face justice because your people’s lives do not matter is not something you can put aside. It’s a pain and a fear you bring everywhere with you. When you are a minority, your skin color is not something you can put aside. It colors every experience you have, it’s always here and if you try to forget it, there’ll always be someone to remind you of it. And I say this as a woman who grew up in a relatively previledged environment. I know how much safer I am than a black man when interacting with people who have the power to kill me if they decide I cause a threat, specially when they know they won’t have to respond for their act.

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