(Closed) Anyone else excited about their prenup?

posted 7 years ago in Money
  • poll: Prenup?
    We have (or will have) one, and I'm glad we do! : (26 votes)
    12 %
    We have one, but I wish we didn't. : (5 votes)
    2 %
    We don't have one, but I'd like to. : (15 votes)
    7 %
    We don't have one, and I wouldn't want one. : (168 votes)
    79 %
  • Post # 32
    Member
    109 posts
    Blushing bee
    • Wedding: April 2013

    I have student loans and a little bit of credit debt (under 3k).

     

    My FI’s family aren’t rich persay, but they do have a lot more money than my family does. Future Sister-In-Law has fiancally ruined Future Brother-In-Law (so far they’re still together). I thought for sure Fiance or his family would want one because of his brother’s siutation. When I brought it up though, Fiance said he didn’t want a pre-nup. Had he wanted a pre-nup, I would have agreed to it.

    Post # 33
    Member
    163 posts
    Blushing bee
    • Wedding: June 2013

    I would be excited to do it. I love talking about finances. We don’t have one because we don’t have anything other then his student loans which are just in his name so I am protected incase something happens to him.

    Post # 35
    Member
    110 posts
    Blushing bee
    • Wedding: June 2013

    @MissBananaBread:  that statistic is only true because fewer people get prenups. 

    Post # 36
    Member
    526 posts
    Busy bee
    • Wedding: October 2013

    @ash23:  That’s not how statistics work.  I’m not saying “divorced people are less likely to have a prenup,” because only 5-10% of American couples get prenups at all, so that’s obvious.

     

    If you take the 90-95% of couples who don’t get prenups and the 5-10% of couples who do, there’s a much lower rate of divorce in the prenup group than in the non-prenup group.

     

    I think there are a lot of explanations for this-

     

    1.  About 70% of all divorces are caused by financial disputes.  Prenups don’t insulate you from financial disputes, but talking about finances in advance sure helps.

     

    2.  Overall, couples with prenups are clearly able to sit down and talk to each other about difficult topics and work through issues where their interests don’t align.  It shows  that they are aware that difficulties may arise during marriage (instead of naively assuming that everything will always be fine because they love each other now) and can work together on fairly addressing those difficulties.

     

    3.  Highly educated couples are significantly more likely to get prenups.  Highly educated people are also statistically less likely to get divorced.  (I don’t want to say, “Getting a prenup is the smart thing to do” because that might offend people, but… statistically, it is unquestionably the educated thing to do.)

    Post # 37
    Member
    7977 posts
    Bumble Beekeeper
    • Wedding: July 2013 - UK

    @Elky:  I think that, out of all the advice here, your words are the wisest. One must discuss finances and be prepared, but whether or not one actually needs a prenup to be able to do that is another matter.

    But then, prenups are not legally valid where I live. You can draw one up, sure… but it has absolutely no recognition in law whatsoever.

    Post # 38
    Member
    526 posts
    Busy bee
    • Wedding: October 2013

    @Elky:  I like your idea.  In case you coudln’t tell from my long, not-so-subtle posts, I am very pro-prenup, but I think your system accomplishes most of the important aspects.  You still discuss the future in a realistic way, especially finances, and work together through an issues where your interests are opposed to one another’s.

    Post # 39
    Member
    7977 posts
    Bumble Beekeeper
    • Wedding: July 2013 - UK

    @MissBananaBread:  Interestingly, the Catholic marriage preparation course insists that you discuss finances, as well as financial futures. For example, we had to discuss what would happen in the future if one of us gave up work to raise children, and the priest gave examples of couples who had struggled when only one of them was earning, but the other one was spending money on the house and kids etc. We were also encouraged to disclose our attitudes towards spending and saving, and discuss our long term plans.

    Obviously, the church is against prenups. However, I can’t help but wonder if the reason that there are fewer Catholic divorces isn’t only because the church forbids it… it could also be because the marriage preparation class encourages people to really think about their future together?

    Conclusions

    – Discuss your financial future together before marriage, and plan for all eventualities.

    – Attend pre-marital couonselling sessions of some nature, in order to get to the heart of various matters between you.

    ?????

    Post # 40
    Member
    7977 posts
    Bumble Beekeeper
    • Wedding: July 2013 - UK

    EDIT: I should say that the reason prenups are not legally binding in English law is this: in the case of divorce, the couple are given time to come to a voluntary agreement. If they can’t do this, it is the job of the court to mediate between the two parties. They do so using a series of guides, working out what is or is not fair to each party. You can’t “opt out” of this mediation, any more than you can “opt out” of paying taxes… it can’t be one rule for one and one rule for another. Law is interested in what is fair, and if we allowed people to make prenups, they would be made on the basis that the existing law is not fair, and that we should be able to opt out of the law of the land on that basis. Fairly obviously, that can’t happen.

    For what it is worth, I agree with this. If I end up divorced, then I am sure that people who are far more experienced than I will counsel me as to what is or is not fair and right in the circumstances I find myself in at the time of my divorce. Seeing as I am not an expert in divorce law, nor a mind reader who can predict what my future circumstances will be, I fail to see how I can meaningfully predict the future in order to produce a prenup which would be at all helpful in the case of my hypothetical future divorce.

    Does that make any sense?

    Post # 41
    Member
    116 posts
    Blushing bee

    We do not and will not have any prenup. I do not know friends, family etc who even considered that. I guess it’s not common where I am from. 

    Post # 42
    Member
    3569 posts
    Sugar bee
    • Wedding: April 2013

    I get what you mean, ours was finalized two months ago. It is nice to see where each persons thoughts were, and the financial aspect planning was awesome. I think it’s great tool and some of forms you feel out disclosing everything financial could be a great tool for together couples to use even if they aren’t getting one

    Post # 43
    Member
    280 posts
    Helper bee
    • Wedding: May 2013

    @Rachel631:  Hmmm. According to data from 2000, Catholics aren’t necessarily any less likely to get divorced than any other group (21 percent versus 24 percent for Mormons, 25 percent for Protestants, and 29 percent for Babtists), at least in the U.S. My guess is that since the number of Catholics worldwide has substantially (not sure if it’s significantly, statistically) decreased, my guess is that those percentages have either stayed constant or slightly increased. This is probably because the average Catholic doesn’t necessarily blindly follow lock-step the teachings of the Church (thank goodness, in my opinion). I think that the open communication about finances and other difficult subjects, coupled with a sense of equality in the relationship, is likely more strongly correlated with divorce than religion. Interestingly, in the 2000 study, Christians had a significantly higher divorce rate than any other faith group, including atheists, which they included.

    Post # 44
    Member
    7977 posts
    Bumble Beekeeper
    • Wedding: July 2013 - UK

    @amyj1276:  Very interesting. However, I still think that the church’s pre-wedding course is a great thing. We aren’t terribly big on counselling in the UK, and Fiance and I would never have gone if it had not been a requirement. It was really good, actually. We also don’t really discuss money in the UK… we tend to think it’s vulgar. But we were forced to discuss this due to the course, which I think was great.

    I still think you don’t need a prenup to be open and honest about money! But an honest conversation and full disclosure are fab.

    Like I said before, the reason I’m not a fan of prenups is because they seem to try to predict the future and I can’t see how that might work… maybe I could try to explain with an example? As the UK and many European countries do not really recognise prenups, perhaps I do not really understand what they are?

    My understanding of prenups is this: John and Jane are due to get married. John has a great job, and a high earning potential. Jane has a low paid job with few prospects, but she has received an inheritance from her deceased relatives. The prenup protects Jane’s inheritance and both of their future earnings, in case of divorce.

    John and Jane marry and have children. Initially, Jane gives up work to be a Stay-At-Home Mom. Then… disaster! John has an accident, and loses the use of his legs. He can no longer do his job, so Jane goes back to work and John dedicates himself to being a SAHF. Jane retrains, and eventually gets a job with fantastic prospects and a huge wage.

    Many years pass, and John and Jane separate. However, if we now bring out their prenup, then Jane does not have to give John a share of the money she inherited, or indeed do anything to reward him for years of loyal work raising their family. I do not think that this is fair.

    Circumstances change, and legal mediation takes into account your circumstances at the moment of your divorce, examining all the aspects of your life in order to come to a fair and equitable settlement. If I said that I didn’t want a prenup because I can’t predict the future, and I don’t know whether what is fair now would be fair in the future, would that make sense? Of course… the point is mute! Even if I got one, it wouldn’t make a difference… see below:

    http://www.prenuptialagreementsuk.co.uk/section25-prenuptial-agreements-uk.php

    I find that website a bit bizarre… they say “oh yes, they’re enforceable” and then say “er… unless ABCDEFGHI”, which makes 99% of the agreement null and void almost by definition! Also, they give two examples, but I fail to see how there would have been any sort of a different outcome even without the prenups… the results were a fait accompli, as far as I can see…

    EDIT: Also, do you have a link to the stats you’re using? I can find a bunch of different ones, but it would be nice to correlate and try to have a play with the data.

    DOUBLE EDIT: Do those stats place annulment in the same category as divorce? Statistics wise, including annulment and divorce in the same category makes sense, but there’s a big difference from a Catholic perspective! I am not a Catholic, but I am able to see the difference here. It would definitely influence the data.

    Post # 45
    Member
    280 posts
    Helper bee
    • Wedding: May 2013

    @Rachel631:  Yes, I agree that the open communication and dialogue are extremely important for any relationship to be successful long term. And I can see why prenups may not be necessary in the UK. Here in the U.S., though, it seems naive and perhaps even irresponsible to not get one for the very reason that you can’t predict the future.

    Post # 46
    Member
    7977 posts
    Bumble Beekeeper
    • Wedding: July 2013 - UK

    @amyj1276:  Educate me, pls! What happens in the US if John and Jane, from my example above, either do or do not have one?

    (Also, see DOUBLE EDIT in my post above… how are the 2000 stats interpreting annulment?)

    The topic ‘Anyone else excited about their prenup?’ is closed to new replies.

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