Post # 135
temeculabride : But that’s my point: you probably think my values aren’t sorted properly because family doesn’t come first for me. To me, your values aren’t properly sorted. I’m not telling you to change, but I am acknowledging that I disagree and explaining why. I don’t have to think your position is equally valid as mine. If I did, I wouldn’t hold my own. I’m allowed to see that as a selfish position. That’s not an attack on you to disagree or even to disapprove. Just like, as I said, you are free to think I’m batshit crazy for not putting family before equality. There’s no reason to get defensive over this or throw your accomplishments around like a trump card. Especially because this is a post that specifically asked for different perspectives. Which means that people are free to challenge each other on their positions. It’s not disparaging to discuss these things and to respectfully not see the other person’s point of view as equally valid in all cases. This issue is more than a matter of preference and has societal implications, so it’s worth it to push each other to explore why we think what we think and question traditions rooted in sexism.
As I said, were this real life instead of a forum, the conversation would look different.
But, I think this post has been threadjacked enough, so I’m going to stop responding.
Post # 138
My DH talked to my dad. I knew it was important to my Dad and wanted my Dh to do so. With that being said, I actually don’t know if my now DH asked for permission. I do know my dad asked DH what his plans were with the future, how he planned on supporting a family, etc. At the time, the plans were we would get married and someday I’d be a Stay-At-Home Mom (both of us wanted this) and my Dad just was having a “talk” with him. Looking back I can’t help but chuckle. NOTHING comes close to the plans we had when DH & my Dad talked, but we’re happy.
Post # 139
Women have legal rights now…in some countries. And they didn’t always have rights.
Your fiancee asking your parents for your hand doesnt take away your rights. Or as I stated before make you lose your feminist card.
Really, if this is the hill people want to die on, go for it. Fight that battle, ladies. For me, I’ve got other feminist issues to worry about.
Post # 140
You’re missing the point. My point was that while wedding traditions like asking the bride’s family for permission are in themselves sexist, marriage is not. There is nothing inherently sexist about marriage so there is no reason to make a stand against it. And even if there was, the reason that women who have issues with wedding traditions from a feminist standpoint would still agree to get married now is because there are legal benefits that you cannot otherwise obtain. Asking for the father’s permission is sexist and also does not afford you any legal benefits. Therefore the two cannot be compared. There is nothing to be lost legally by making a stand against wedding traditions that are sexist.
And I will disagree that asking permission doesn’t take away your rights. While asking for permission is now largely done rhetorically, it still gives the impression that the groom is autonomous and can make his own decisions whereas the bride must have a male family member make her life decisions for her. It takes away her autonomy, even if only symbolically.
Post # 141
Personally, I think it’s weird. If you want to marry me…ask me? I’m also Indian, so the whole asing the parents thing is still very much rooted in patriarchal familial and societal structures. It’s “expected” if you want to seem respectful, which is exactly why I hate it.
Having said that, if something is important to you, you’re probably with a partner that understands that, so if it’s important that parents give your partner their ‘blessing’ as a kind gesture, then you do you!
It’s all about what your expectations are and if you’re with a person who respects and understands them.
Post # 142
It didn’t take away my autonomy. It may take away yours. And that’s fine. Mine is still intact.
My mother’s marriage wasn’t one of equality. So don’t be so quick to say they are. Each person is different. Each person’s marriage is different.
Like I said, die on that hill. But I’m still independent. I am still in charge. I am still a feminist. And if my husband ever tried to assert his dominance over me I’d laugh in his face. Then get a divorce.
We shall not agree on this issue. That is fine.
Post # 143
I didn’t say every marriage is the same. What I said was that there is no inherent quality of marriage that means it must be unequal. Marriage is simply the union between two people. There’s nothing about that situation that makes it unequal. If the two people within the marriage have an unequal relationship that’s not because of some innate nature of marriage, it’s because of those two people.