Post # 121
I have a theory, which I will be prepared for everyone to call bullshit. Here goes. For the last few decades, it has been all about that women are just as sexual as men, just as hot and horny as any guy.
But I believe, it is different. The majority of women would like more lead-up, than the majority of men, who are mostly ready to go much faster than women. Also there are men who just don’t care what their partner is feeling. But I think men assume that because women are just as capable of enjoying sex as men are, they think women experience everything just the same as they do, and for the majority, I don’t think it is true. Physiology and psychology is different.
Example: most guys who brought a date back to his place, if the girl grabbed him by the shirt, threw him against the wall and went to town, would be thrilled beyond belief. For a woman to experience the same would be a nightmare.
Men don’t really understand women, just like I don’t think I really understand men.
Post # 122
I think you have an interesting idea, but as a woman who has a higher sex drive and a less-than-romanticized attitude towards sex, I can say that in my personal experience, quite a few guys were/are not into a girl being so aggressive/dominant.
Fiance and I discussed this the other night. The thing we realized was that – from both of our experiences – if a guy isn’t into sex, it’s generally not going happen bc physiologically it becomes really difficult. Fiance recalled one woman he dated for a little while who really pressured him one night when he wasn’t feeling it – nothing happened bc it, well, couldn’t. He was willing to go through it – not enthusiastic – but his body refused bc of his lack of enthusiasm. I experienced this in other relationships when I wanted to have sex and the guy wasn’t so much wanting it. I wonder if it’s not discussed much bc 1) what woman wants to admit she was turned down for sex and 2) what man wants to admit he turned down sex – both going against cultural stereotypes.
I’d also like to address something a few pp commented on: age difference as a factor. I’m very hesitant to champion this as an factor, because it has problematic impacts. In the US, 18 is the age of majority. 21 is the age at which you can drink. If 22 is considered too young to make decisions about sex bc the guy is older, we are on a very slippery slope. Are we going to have age ranges in place for who women can date until they are 25 or older? Are we going to say large age differences in relationships are inherently unequal and say they aren’t allowed even if both individuals are adults? We have to have a line at which we are saying a person is an adult and they have to make their own decisions, right or wrong. As an aside, I’d just like to point out, if you can fight for your country at 18 – and in some states, you can be as tried as an adult even younger – you should be able to make your own decision about sex at 22.
Post # 123
That is why I was so careful to use words like “most” and “the majority”, anticipating the exceptions. But you did point out that other stereotype, that guys can be ‘not in the mood’ at times. They wouldn’t want anyone to know that!
I am in the majority. A guy going for me like he is a choco-holic and I am a vat of fudge is not my style. If I were still single these past 25 years (thank God I’m not) I would not want that approach.
Post # 124
I think, partially, women like me are somewhat to “blame” as to why SOME men push…I liked it. I was a girl who played coy, hard to get and aloof. I had read one too many bodice ripping novels of the domineering male, who knew how to talk a woman into bed, or kind of man-handle her there. I thought for years that, that’s how the game was played. (Only with men I wanted anything sexual to do with in the first place, mind you! So don’t get me wrong, I WANTED to be there, despite my coyness! I have knee’d and pushed guy’s off me, yelling, when he swooped in for a kiss that I did not want and got myself out of there.) I thought men had to cajole, physically seduce a gently protesting woman, to prove his desire. It’s all over the movies too. I was independant, knew what I wanted and when I wanted it, but I played a dangerous game that really didn’t help this dialogue. And if I had been educated into that thinking through classic movies etc, I can’t be the only one. Not trying to excuse anyone, just adding my perspective.
Post # 125
I didn’t read all the responses but honestly the “tease” factor comes to mind for me. She is naked and continues to make out with him. In my mind if I am making out with a fellow naked person I am going to have sex.
I personally think she did this on purpose. Yes he did things that made me go wtf? (The fingers in her mouth) I find it VERY hard to imagine just how he is shoving his fingers do her throat and then into her vagina while she is non compliant. Over and over and over again. I find it hard to see her sitting in front of him on the floor face to face with his genitals and after being motioned to preform oral sex, which she does, she is being violated.
I don’t believe the way you dress should have any impact on a woman’s potentail to be raped. But I also don’t believe you should be as far as naked and making out with someone and not expect them to touch your body in a sexual manner.
Post # 126
this too so much. As though many women want their sexual partner to beg “enough” for it. We are also taught not to “give it up” so easily. I think this in itself plays a giant roll in what is so very confusing to men.
Post # 127
I found the Babe article difficult to reallly get a feel for in terms of timing and what really went on. Taking it at it’s word I would say there is sexual harassment at least.
I feel like “slow down” is pretty clearly communicating wants. I think of “no” as backoff entirely, “slow down” is I’m consenting to this but for now don’t want this to go further. He wasn’t just asking, he was pushing the boundaries with his body. Had he actually verbally asked what she wanted instead of where she wanted to be fucked I doubt there would be a story.
Post # 128
When you say the “tease” factor and she did this on purpose, can you get into a bit more of what you mean? Is the idea here that you think she wanted to entice him, give him not quite enough, then leave him wanting more as a way of manipulating him into some goal of hers? Or do you mean something else?
Thanks for sharing this perspective. While I’ve never felt this way myself, I think that portrayals in the media are FULL of this and I agree with yoiu that it’s not hard to imagine that a lot of women and men follow this script at some point – either because it actually aligns with their desires or because it’s what they’ve seen modeled.
Post # 129
i dont know the babe article makes it sound like any normal sloppy hookup to me (it was the only one i read btw)
while i feel for women who are put into these positions, she had plenty of oppurtunites to walk away, and she chose not too. Im not big on women who made a decision to have what turned out to be a regretful awkward hookup, and then turn around the next morning and claim they were forced or pressured into it.
It happens, and just because it happened with a rich celeb dont automatically make it more impactful then anyone else’s sloppy one night stand.
Post # 130