Post # 17
I absolutely disagree that *most* women know exactly what goes on in a strip club. I think that most of the women that I know have only a very vague idea – and that is at least partly because perhaps, like bellenga, they are so threatened and upset by thinking about it that they will go ahead and attack anybody who points it out. If you’re that upset to hear the truth, I guess your guy would never upset you by going? Or are you that upset because he does, and you simply feel like you have to put up with it, or ignore it?
None of us have to put up with anything in a relationship that is really upsetting to us. If your partner loves you (and vice versa) he should be putting your feelings pretty high up on his list of priorities – certainly above his need to get all fraternity party with a bunch of his guy friends. And if either you or your partner can honestly say to the other person "I just don’t care if it upsets you, I’m going to do it anyway," then I would say that you’re probably with the wrong person.
And honestly, if you have to draw a line about *breaking vows,* it’s pretty clear that you’re really trying to justify something. I don’t just not want my husband having sex with other women. I also don’t want him fondling them, or being kissed by them, having them rub their naked bodies up against him, or (to be a little Jimmy Carter-esque) lusting after them in his heart. I think that my husband vowed to love and cherish me, and to choose me above all others, until death do us part. I think that means a little more than not having sex with other women.
Post # 18
As someone who deplores the entire sex industry (everything from out and out prostitution to "harmless" pornography), thank you for being honest. More people need to know, and more people need to hear that it is ok to hurt from ANY kind of sexual betrayal. Thank you so much.
Post # 19
Thank you for this, I think it’s important for girls (and guys, for that matter) to know what goes on. It’s usually a mostly taboo subject that we fool ourselves into thinking we know from TV and movies.
Post # 20
I agree with you, wiglet and suzanno….your FI/husbands shouldn’t want to go to strip clubs! I don’t know how or why this became okay. My husband didn’t really care to go. I told him how I felt, and he agreed. He also felt the same way about me doing any of the typical bachelorette stuff. It is about respecting your partner. If my husband is happy with me, he has no reason to have a naked stranger around him. Not to say that I am responsible to make him "happy" in that way – I just mean that he doesn’t feel the need to do this stuff. Meaning, if he were to say, well its my last night as a single man, blaah blah blah, I would have said, well, then you aren’t the person for me.
I found this post shocking actually, that someone would admit to doing these things! I commend you, beachbaby. Most women wouldn’t do that. I am one of the people who didn’t really "know" these things happened, because really most strip clubs don’t go around advertising "sexual favors". They do keep it secret. Because obviously it is illegal, right? Technically this would be a form of prostitution, right? I don’t think it is any man’s right just because they are getting married to to these places, and I find it sad honestly, the women who act like its no big deal, whether their husbands are just watching them dance or going into the private rooms. Have some respect for yourselves, right? I don’t know, thats just how I look at it….anyway, very interesting and enlightening ; ) post!
Post # 21
While I understand what you ladies are saying (I do), I have to chime in with my observations. Asking your FI/husband/boyfriend if he wants to go to a strip club is like asking him, "do I look fat in this"? The standard answer is always "no".
I asked my Fiance about the whole strip club thing. He’s not dying to pound the door down of any particular strip club, but he said that any guy who says it’s not at least a tolerable, if not enjoyable experience…is being a bit dishonest. I’m not talking about the private rooms. I think that’s another story.
I know I’m not making a definitive point, but I guess what I’m seeing is a lot of posters saying, "My Fiance has no interest in strip clubs" and "My Fiance finds strip clubs repulsive". Maybe that’s the case, maybe it’s not. (I hope deeply that they are telling the truth!) But again, I feel like it’s kinda one of those sticky questions where women often get the answer they want to hear, rather than the whole truth. Thank you, Beachbaby, for your honesty. You’ve seen a side of "guy behavior" that many of us have never seen. It made me think twice about this subject! Good luck with your wedding planning!
Post # 22
I think what’s important here is TRUST.
I would never forbid my husband to go to a strip club. Heck, one of these days, I’d like to go just to get a free steak.
Why do I not worry about whether or not he goes? Because I trust my husband. I know that he loves me and would never do anything to betray our sacred bond.
His bachelor party is over, but what if one of his friends wants to go to a strip club for theirs? I’m not going to be the buzzkill that says he can’t hang out with his friends, because it’s just not that big of a deal to me. Because I trust him. And I know if he gets turned on by his strip club visit…he’s going to bring all of that sexual tension home to me.
Strip clubs exist. So do prostitutes, ex girlfriends, massage parlors, and online encounters. If you had to make sure your husband never encountered one of them, well, you’d be stalking him within an inch of his life. I prefer not to do that.
Post # 23
I hate the idea that having an honest discussion with your Fiance about your distaste for strip clubs and your desire that he never venture into one means you don’t trust him. If my Fiance went to a strip club, it would be a huge deal to me, and it has nothing to do with a lack of trust.
I think it’s important that every woman sits down with the man she’s going to marry and establish boundaries, because everyone has a different idea of what it means to break their wedding vows. For me, going into a strip club and having another woman grind on you is cheating and breaking your vows. Clearly for other women it’s not cheating, and that’s fine. Some people consider dancing with another woman cheating, or going out to dinner with a female friend cheating. Some women have a more open relationship with their husband and enjoy bringing other people into the sexual side of their relationship – there’s a very broad spectrum of what people consider acceptable behavior in a marriage.
I’ve told my Fiance I would consider going to a strip joint cheating, and he agrees. I never "forbid" him to go, but I would consider going to a strip joint a big deal, and I trust him more than anyone in the world. I would also find it disgusting to know my Fiance got turned on at a strip joint and came home to have sex with me. That doesn’t mean it bothers me if other relationships are not like ours. If you’re fine with your husband going to a strip joint and don’t consider it cheating, then it’s not cheating – for your relationship.
Let’s remember that everyone’s relationship is different, and please stop saying that those of us who don’t want our husbands going to a strip club don’t trust our men.
Post # 24
We do have boundaries. I don’t share him with anyone, ever. He knows that engaging in an intimate act with another woman (or man) is not appropriate. I trust that he will never do that, in a strip club or otherwise.
It’s not the act of walking into a strip club that is cheating. He can go into one, accompany his buddies, whatever. I don’t care if he watches girls dance. But it crosses the line when he touches, or is touched, by someone else. I trust that he can go, and not engage in anything I’d be embarrassed or mad to find out about later.
As for him becoming aroused by someone else, and then bringing that arousal home to me, I really don’t think that is strange. I am not delusional enough to believe that I am the only thing that might turn him on. He might be aroused by porn, an aphrodisiac, a pretty girl on the cover of a magazine, a thought that pops into his head…it doesn’t matter. I know he’ll be channeling his sexual desires to me, and that’s what’s important.
Post # 25
I completely agree that if going to a strip club is not cheating for you, then it’s not cheating for you and your Fiance. However, for my Fiance and I, and most couples I know, going to a strip club is cheating. For us it is, and for you it’s not – it’s as simple as that, and we’re both completely right with our beliefs for our relationships. As for the arousal over strippers, it’s not something that I would feel comfortable with, but if it’s something you don’t mind, then it’s completely fine for your relationship. What’s right, wrong, cheating, not cheating, etc., for one relationship is different for another. In my relationship, going to a strip club is cheating – we’ve agreed on that. In many, many other relationships, it’s not cheating, and no big deal. Nor is it a big deal for a lot of relationships if the husband comes home after a strip club and has sex with his wife, and that’s wonderful for them, but it’s not for me.
That’s all I’m saying – relationships are different. What constitutes as cheating in one relationship doesn’t in another. What turns one person on turns off another. The original poster has been accused of not trusting her Fiance and overreacting by individuals who don’t see what he did as cheating. I want her to know that for those of us who do view it as cheating, we don’t think she’s overreacting, and we don’t think she has trust issues. I just hate for her to be admonished by individuals who don’t fully understand where she’s coming from.
Post # 26
the part where just because she’s now wealthy, or married a rich guy, that she doesn’t care? justbecause she’s rich, makes her not care that her husband is cheating on her, or wants to…is that my naivete speaking? I don’t think it has anything to do with wealth…
Post # 27
The OP (from the original thread) actually does have a reason to be upset, and has a reason to mistrust her fiance. He crossed the line. If my husband did that, I would be absolutely livid, and I’d think twice about having a relaxed attitude toward strip clubs in the future.
Let me be clear-I don’t WANT my husband to go to a strip club, but I’m not going to tell him he has to stay home, either. I’m fortunate and smart enough to be with a man who isn’t interested in going to one, but as I said earlier, if his friends want him to go for a special occasion, he shouldn’t have to miss out on time with them because I have a problem.
I don’t understand why walking into a strip club is automatically cheating. It’s entirely possible to go to a strip club to hang out, get drinks, watch the dancers, and never come into personal contact with anyone. What is so terrible about that? His friends might get lap dances (or more, apparently) but that doesn’t mean he has to. I guess I can understand how it could be cheating it if you have a problem with him looking at other women, but it’s sort of the same thing as porn to me, and I don’t consider porn cheating either.
I think the whole problem I have with women forbidding their fiances/husbands to go to a strip club is that to me, it implies that men cannot control themselves. That if given the chance, they would get their hands all over some stripper. That’s just not fair to assume.
My entire point is that you have to establish trust with your man, no matter where he goes. Whether it’s a strip club, party where an ex girlfriend will be, etc. Temptations are EVERYWHERE, not just in strip clubs. So it’s important that you have a strong foundation of trust, because you can’t protect him from temptation everywhere he goes.
Post # 28
WOW – I TOTALLY agree with SALTYVERUCA. I haven’t even read the original post and I feel inclined to respond to this.
For those of you who consider "cheating" if your man goes to a strip club, would you rather have him LIE to you? This is why I agree with Saltyveruca, that it’s not fair to assume that the men cannot control themselves when they are in such situations. I myself don’t have a problem with my man going to a strip club simply because I don’t think he will do anything in the "back room". If I did, then I wouldn’t be marrying him. Also, I think it’s much better to be told that he’ll be at a strip club than for the whole world to know but you because you FORBADE him to go to a strip club. I don’t LOVE strip clubs or would consider myself PRO strip clubs but let’s face the reality. Men have different needs than we do. When girls go to Chippendales or any other male entertainment places, we don’t really get turned on, do we? I think most of us go for the "fun" or the "mockery" of the situation of a man in a thong. But for men, they are "built" genetically different and they are how they are. But to forbid them from going to a certain place because of what? Because it’s wrong to look? Shouldn’t you have the trust in him that even if he were to go there that he wouldn’t do anything wrong? Looking isn’t wrong, touching is. But then again, everyone has differences in what is acceptable and not so I guess if "looking" would make you upset then I guess he shouldn’t go at all as long as he is okay with this.
I would hate for my man to be the "whipped" guy who isn’t ALLOWED to go to a strip club so his friends make fun of him – and they will. Either that or they will go and you will be the only one who won’t know what happened. Trust me, I’ve been told of these situations about other wives who forbade their men of going and the wives were LIED to. I think if anything, LYING about going is more cheating than going and looking.
Post # 29
wow, there’s a lot of stuff going on here. the original post is candid and for some, appreciated. For others, it will exacerbate the fear of "what might happen". But that’s what we do here – seek help and dole out advice.
There are different kinds of strip clubs and different types of scenarios. I’ve spent more than average time in strip clubs and around its patrons and dancers. I have stripper, go-go and burlesque friends. To be perfectly honest, most strip clubs are horribly depressing. And it’s work – money for dancers on a path to a better job/life etc.. Bachelor parties are a tradition that not all men follow, but many and deeply disturbing to women – not all, but again, many.
Here’s the thing: from the day he proposed to you, every thing from that day forward is a matter of trust, honesty and partnership. That conversation about what is and isn’t okay is the key, like any decision you will make. There is no special "just this one time" That last time, in terms of being with another woman, ended when he proposed to you. That’s a commitment that no male bonding tradition should break. But it’s your call and a common ground to find. My best friend and her fiance had a joint bachelor/bachelorette party at a strip club. That would be odd to many people, but it’s what they decided to do.
My guy’s idea of the best night ever is wearing a kilt and hitting every irish bar in town but that’s him and I have to say, this whole peer pressure thing has *got* to go. Those friends need to respect your partnership.
Just my 2.5 cents.
Post # 30
I believe that the looking IS cheating, because it is purposeful. Yes, a man may see a scantily clad woman just walking down the street and have a thought or two, but that’s very different from walking into a strip club and sitting down and watching. As Martin Luther said, we may not be able to stop birds from flying past our heads, but that doesn’t mean we must allow them to make nests in our hair. And yes, by this definition, I say pornography is cheating too. And my fiance is the one who has set up these guidelines in our relationship, not me. He is unfailingly honest with me about his struggles to keep not only his actions but his thoughts as well fixed on me. I admire him and consider him to be a stronger man because of it.
Post # 31
Everyone agrees it’s a matter of trust… but to be honest, there are a lot of girls AND guys out there who are not trustworthy! Just because you fall in love with someone doesn’t mean you owe that person your blind trust… both sides have to demonstrate that they are trustworthy! And from the OP’s perspective… maybe he is NOT!!
Also, not to be a total party pooper but I invite you to think about the kind of culture and economy strip clubs perpetuate… they objectify women… at the same time offering them the kind of money most of these women would never be able to make in a "respectable" job such as working at a store or in a restaurant. Every time someone pays $$$ to go to such a place, that person is perpetuating that. Is that the kind of world that we want to live in?