Post # 32
WeddingKitty, I completely agree with you that the culture created by strip clubs is not something I want to support in any way. And December, I’m so glad to see I’m not alone in my belief that looking is cheating, and looking at pornography is cheating.
And Jessica, I completely agree with most of what you’re saying, we just have different definitions of what constitutes cheating. Since my Fiance and I are in complete agreement as to what we believe constitutes cheating, I know there are no hard feelings on either side. I’ve never FORBIDDEN him to go to a strip club, but I’ve made it clear that I would consider it cheating and would be hurt by it, and he agrees that if the roles were reversed, he would feel exactly the same. I also agree that forbidding your Fiance to go to a strip club out of fear that he might cross a line means you don’t trust him, but for us, entering the strip club is crossing the line.
I don’t really agree that men are built differently than women and that all men have these needs that are fulfilled when they go to a strip club. And I know plenty of women who have a sex drive that matches any man out there, even if women typically go to a strip club for the "fun" of it. But, I also know more than a few women who get turned on by going to strip clubs. To me, it just seems less acceptable for women to hang out together in a strip club and get turned on, whereas for men this is deemed "normal" behavior.
When Fiance and I started dating, we agreed that to bring someone else into our sexual relationship – through porn, strip clubs, etc., was not acceptable. I’m not foolish enough to believe my man doesn’t see attractive women on the streets, just as I see attractive men, but for us, that’s a lot different than entering an establishment to oogle mostly naked women.
Post # 33
I absolutely don’t agree that "men have different needs than we do." I work in a predominantly male field, went to school with mostly men, and most of good friends are men. There are guys that like strip clubs, just like there are women who like that kind of thing. There are guys that cheat on their wives and girlfriends, just like there are women who chat on their husbands and boyfriends. If anything, the guys I know are bigger romantics than most of the women, and the guys I know that are happily married are not likely want to go out and fondle naked women that they don’t know. If you really love your partner, you don’t want or need to go looking for sex or even arousal outside your relationship, whatever your gender – particularly if it’s offensive to your partner. Some couples apparently agree that it’s okay, and that is just fine. My husband and I do not – although we have been known to appreciate some good soft porn together, so I don’t particularly think that we are prudes. If you think it’s fine for your guy to go to strip clubs, I’m not saying that you’re wrong. But if you really don’t think it’s fine, and you (or he) are somehow excusing is as if he is somehow so controlled by his hormones that he has no choice, then that is just wrong. If that really is the case, then he has a kind of addiction – same as if he couldn’t help gambling or drinking – and needs some professional help.
Post # 34
December and loveatfirstsightlover, I am totally with you–if my fiance went to a strip club, I’d consider it cheating, period. If he looked at porn, I’d feel cheated on as well. Happily, he views it the same way as I do–if anything, he’s even more strict about it than I would be.. and I appreciate that, because it lets me know how seriously he takes our relationship, and how deeply he respects me. He refuses to intentionally seek out ANY sort of sexual/romantic contact–even if it’s "just looking" with a woman who isn’t his wife.
I also appreciate the OP’s candor here. I think a lot of women really don’t have much of a clue about what goes on in strip clubs, and even when we do, there’s a lot of pressure on us to shrug it off and say it’s just ok. But I think jealousy is a natural response here. If someone is marrying you, he’s making a commitment to leave all of that behind for you.
I know that a lot of people on this board don’t think it’s a big deal. What happens between you and your Fiance is for you two to work out and agree on. Communicate and set boundaries.. but don’t try to lie to yourself for his sake. If something bothers and upsets you, he has a right to know so that he can make informed decisions about what he wants to do. I know guys who have no problem with going to strip clubs. Several of them have stopped going, though, because even though their fiancees and wives didn’t tell them NOT to, they knew it bothered them and stopped because they love the women they are committed to more than they love looking at strippers.
Post # 35
Beachbaby: Thank you for your honesty. It’s not something especially endearing to BTBs to know that there is a possibility that HTBs may get up to nonsense behind their backs, but your post made me realise that there is a lot more to the excuse which some friends have given to other married girlfriends eg. "only a lap dance and nothing more!"
Personally knowing this means that I would speak with the fiance and voice out my strong concerns against him going (thankfully he is not into this sort of things and would rather just have a football night out with his buddies for his bachelor’s party). It’s not a matter of trust – I definitely trust him, but it’s his friends that I won’t trust. Guys tend to go a bit overboard at such parties. Throw in some alcohol and peer pressure (you know say things which prick at the male ego like, ‘what, are you chicken/ scared of your wife/ henpecked") and you don’t know what will happen. In truth, I dont believe any of the guys who we are engaged to (and who agree to make that sacred commitment to us) will willingly and knowingly do that. But sometimes, peer pressure is a strong force to reckon with. Just my two cents. 🙂
Post # 36
So, I’m curious… I’ve been drooling over the recent James Bond movie commercials… is that cheating according to those who think that porn/strippers are cheating? What’s the difference? Yeah, he’s not naked, but he’s hotter than most men I’ll ever meet. I swear, I’m not trying to start an arguement, but trying to simply understand a different point of view. Is looking at hot movie stars cheating? If it’s not, how is it different from looking at people who choose to take their clothes off?
Post # 37
meganmp1, I would say that for me, the difference lies in the fact that one isn’t actively seeking some sort of sexual fulfillment (in the same way) out of ogling James Bond. It’s one thing to look at someone attractive and appreciate them for it. It’s another thing entirely to use them for sexual gratification. To me, the taking off of clothes is precisely where the difference lies. It’s a matter of intimacy. It means something to be naked in front of someone else, or for someone to be naked in front of you; that meaning isn’t present when someone is just hanging out looking dashing in a suit and ordering martinis. The sex appeal is there, but not the intimacy of the sexual act.
Post # 38
I’m not sure what I can offer on the cheating/non-cheating question, but I do want to address carly7215’s earlier comment, since it seemed to be (in-part) directed toward my post. My fiance has never told me that he dislikes strip clubs – although, in our discussions about them, he honestly doesn’t seem interested. In our case, the reason he won’t be going to a strip club for his bachelor party is because he knows how he would make me feel. Because of that, he has no qualms about telling his buddies to leave the naked girls out of the picture.
But I definitely don’t agree with carly7215 that men who say they don’t like strip clubs are lying: I truly believe that many guys are just a little grossed out by getting turned on alongside their friends. I mean, seriously. Can you imagine how awkward it would be for our guys to go into a bar and sit around a stage trying to hide the tents in their pants? I certainly wouldn’t want to share the equivalent experience with my girlfriends.
Someone else (saltyveruca?) brought up something that has weighed on my mind from time to time: what do we do when our men are invited to other bachelor parties that involve strip clubs? For me, the idea of him going to a strip club when he’s NOT the bachelor isn’t as bad, but it’s still mighty uncomfortable. At the same time, I don’t think I would feel right asking him not to celebrate a good friend. Like I said, I don’t *command* or *forbid* him to do anything, but I do realize that by sharing my discomfort with him, I’m having a very effective influence on his decisions. How have you ladies dealt with that in the past?
Post # 39
@Wiglet: My post wasn’t really directed at anyone in particular. I hope you weren’t offended because I never meant to imply that your FI/husband is lying when he says he’s disinterested in strip clubs. I hope deeply that no FIs or husbands would ever lie to their spouses about this.
I was simply sharing some info I received from my own Fiance. (I don’t really know what goes on in these places.) When I told him about the thread he said he found it difficult to believe that guys can’t tolerate or at least minimally enjoy themselves at stripclubs. (Which, believe me, is a fact I have no interest in knowing more about…) Maybe some men really are repulsed by stripclubs. I would consider that a good thing! But I guess I was trying to be realistic and say, don’t count on it. Hope I have clarified myself a bit.
Post # 40
@carly7215 – I was thinking about adding a disclaimer to my post that I wasn’t offended at all by what you said! And I know you weren’t specifically targeting me – more the general sentiment that I (and others) alluded to. You were DEF respectful; I just wanted to point out that I think there is a segment of the male population that simply doesn’t enjoy stripclubs. That said, I think there are a very few men out there who are actively repulsed by strippers. Most people – men AND women – can deal, at least minimally, with cha-chas/peens being waggled in their faces.
The most important part of what you said was that most can tolerate strip clubs. That’s where I agree with you. But I don’t think tolerating means enjoying.
Post # 41
<p style=”margin: 0in 0in 0pt” class=”MsoNormal”><font size=”3″><font face=”Times New Roman”>"For those of you who consider cheating if your man goes to a strip club, would you rather have him LIE to you?………………………..Also , I think it’s much better to be told that he’ll be at a strip club than for the whole world to know but you because you FORBADE him to go to a strip club. </font></font><font face=”Times New Roman” size=”3″> </font> <p style=”margin: 0in 0in 0pt” class=”MsoNormal”><font face=”Times New Roman” size=”3″>I would hate for my man to be the whipped guy who isn’t allowed to go to a strip club so his friends make fun of him—and they will. Either that or they will go and you will be thonly one who won’t know what happened. ……….I think that if anything, LYING about going is more cheating than going and looking."</font><p style=”margin: 0in 0in 0pt” class=”MsoNormal”><font face=”Times New Roman” size=”3″></font><p style=”margin: 0in 0in 0pt” class=”MsoNormal”><font face=”Times New Roman” size=”3″>This post defies logic, shows a sad lack of self respect, and is offensive to the many men who do not lie to their wives and girlfriends. The poster has no choice but to put up with her man going to strip clubs because otherwise he would LIE to her. So, she assumes that all men lie, which insults all men, and those of us with men who do not lie.</font><p style=”margin: 0in 0in 0pt” class=”MsoNormal”><font face=”Times New Roman” size=”3″></font><p style=”margin: 0in 0in 0pt” class=”MsoNormal”><font face=”Times New Roman” size=”3″>Look, if your guy is going to lie about going to a strip club, then he is a liar. If he is a liar, then he is just as capable of lying about sleeping with another woman, because you FORBADE that, as he is about lying about going to a strip club. Also, this guy is not only a liar, but his friend’s lie to their women, and when they are not lying, they are making fun of each other for being "whipped," which means caring about your SOs feelings enough not to violate them. Furthermore, the poster said that LYING about it is worse than going and looking. It is one thing to genuinely not care about going to a strip club, but to have no choice in the matter because otherwise he will LIE is just plain crappy. Knowing that your guy would LIE if you asked him not to go is just as bad as him actually LYING about it. </font>
Post # 42
@wiglet: i do think there are some guys that are not into strip clubs. my Fiance and last boyfriend are among that group. my Fiance (and last boyfriend) think strippers are pretty gross (at least in the city where i live) and both said it is embarrassing to watch their friends get all hot and bothered next to them. both turned down invites to bachelor parties that involved strip clubs, even though i didn’t tell them they couldn’t go.
i have been to strip clubs a few times – never with a boyfriend – just with male friends. i have even witnessed a lap dance in a private room, and though there was nothing more going on than a lap dance (meaning no acual sex) "lap" is really a euphemism for full on naked lady grinding and touching and doing whatever else to the man. it is by no means what you see in the club when a guy gets a lap dance…it is much much more.
i have always been an open-minded girl, but i have to say, i would never marry a man who likes to go to strip clubs. and a man who can’t stand up to his friends if he doesn’t like strip clubs is weak. the whole thing is just not cool.