(Closed) Catholic+Christian, not a sacrament?

posted 6 years ago in Catholic
Post # 4
Member
9954 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper
  • Wedding: December 2012

Technically, believing Christ is the saviour, makes one a Christian.  So, Catholicism is a branch of Christianity…

BUT being a Christian, doesn’t make you a Catholic… according to the Catholic Church, the two concepts are quite far apart (Catholicism & Protestantism… and that goes back to the history of what created the Protestant Churches / Movement back in the 1500s)

So ya, the Catholic Church won’t recognize those from outside of their faith (even tho they may be Christian) as being “holy”, which is why the Marriage wouldn’t be recognized by the Catholic Church (in that Marriage within the Catholic Church is regarded as one of the Holy Sacraments)

If you were to marry outside of the Catholic Church, in a Protestant Church, or even marry in the Catholic Church… and then joined a Protestant Church / Denomination, your marriage would be perfectly accepted to the other Christian sects.

The ONLY way that the Catholic Church will accept your marriage completely to a Non-Catholic is IF he converts… and yes that means he has to be baptised in the Catholic Church (EVEN IF he was baptised as a Christian by another Church… again, a Catholic Holy Sacrament that the Catholic Church sees as “theirs” and only theirs)

Sorry, I don’t have better news.  The Catholic Church has seen themselves as being “apart” from the rest of Christianity for nearly 500 years, since those unsatisfied with its teachings left the church and began their own (ie Protestant = Protestors)

Consquently… their point of view, isn’t about to change any time soon.

This entry from Wikipedia will help you to understand it further if you wish to know why etc = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestantism

Hope this helps,

EDIT TO ADD – Mine is a very basic explanation… in that I explained the situation from the POV of marrying WITHIN the Catholic Church.  I didn’t get into the whole explanation of Convalidation (the requirement of the Catholic Church for those who are married OUTSIDE of the Catholic Church and wanting to have their marriage then recognized by the Catholic Church… that is a whole other ball of wax)

 

Post # 3
Member
831 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: May 2013

My understanding is that if one party is a Catholic and the other is non-baptized (regardless of faith) the church considers it a natural marriage, not a sacramental marriage.

However, if he were baptized Christian (regardless of denomination) it would be considered sacramental. I’m not sure they gave you correct info on that point (not everyone who works in a church knows all the ins and outs)

I can understand your disappointment, but the church will still recognize your marriage and you will still be able to continue to receive the other sacraments.

Is there a reason he was never baptized, if he considers himself Christian?

Post # 5
Member
3697 posts
Sugar bee

Hi there – I’m so sorry you’re going through this. From what I understand, some of what you’ve been told is incorrect, or (more probably) there’s been a misunderstanding because of your fiance’s current unbaptized status.

The Catholic church considers marriage between any two baptized Christians to be a sacrament, so if your fiance goes through with his baptism, the Catholic church will recognize it (both the baptism and the marriage) and consider it a sacrament. Our creed says “we believe in ONE baptism for the forgiveness of sins…” and that extends to all Christian baptisms whether they happen within Catholicism or any other denomination.

It’s true that marraige between a Catholic and an unbaptized person is considered a “natural marriage” and not a sacrament. It’s because the Catholic church sees baptism as the basic sacrament of initiation, and so it seems really weird to have an adult who considers himself to be Christian yet remains unbaptized. Even in denominations that don’t do infant baptism, once a person is mature and reaches an adult decision to accept the faith, baptism is pretty much Step One.

Would your fiance be willing to complete his baptism before you get married so that it would be regarded as fully sacramental? Another possibility, if he really prefers to do it afterward, would be to talk with your priest to see if there is something similar to convalidation that can be done to recognize your marriage as sacramental once he becomes baptized.

(Si cualquier parte de esta explicacion le resulta confusa, favor de enviarme un mensaje privado y hare’ lo que pueda para aclararselo en espanol)

@ThisTimeRound: The ONLY way that the Catholic Church will accept your marriage to a Non-Catholic is IF he converts…and yes that means he has to be baptised in the Catholic Church (EVEN IF he was baptised as a Christian by another Church… again, a Catholic Holy Sacrament that the Catholic Church sees as “theirs” and only theirs) <– No, this is incorrect information. The Catholic church recognizes Christian baptisms from other denominations as valid (for example, baptized Christians from other denominations who join the Catholic Church and go through R.C.I.A are called “candidates” – distinct from “catechumens,” who are the previously unbaptized ones preparing for baptism – and they receive only First Communion and Confirmation, unlike the catechumens who receive Baptism, First Communion and Confirmation together). I realize you are trying to help the OP, but your information is inaccurate and misinformed.

Post # 6
Member
831 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: May 2013

@This Time Round:  There is some misinformation in your post. Catholics can sacramentally marry members of other Christian denominations, as long as they are baptized.  The non-Catholic does NOT have to convert to Catholicism.

And Catholics can also marry non-Christians, although it is discouraged. The marriage willnot be sacramental, but the Catholic church will still “recognize” the marriage.

Post # 9
Member
831 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: May 2013

@Igem:  Does he feel strongly about his Christian faith? If so, he should seriously consider getting baptized. It is a fundamental part of being Christian.

Post # 10
Member
9954 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper
  • Wedding: December 2012

@kimm99:  I replied first… and I did so solely from the POV of Marriage & the Catholic Church (as the poster was looking for her Hubby-2-B to marry within the church and have a sacramental wedding)

After further replies, I went back and did an ETA for further clarificaton… and to state that there were other circumstances where a marriage might be recognized, but that there are indeed “requirements” set by the Catholic Church for a couple to qualify.

Together, between us, I think we’ve covered off the majority of the Reasons, and the basic requirements.  I think now, it is just a matter of WHERE she wishes to marry and HOW concerned she is about how the Catholic Church views her marriage.

Post # 11
Member
3697 posts
Sugar bee

Is it your priest who told you this, or the bishop/someone from the bishop’s office?

If it’s the priest, I would pursue it with the bishop because the priest just might be incorrect/misinformed/trying to micromanage the affairs of his congregation. If the diocese truly does not recognize the Church of Christ, they need to provide you with an explanation as to why. Is this “Church of Christ” the “Church of Jesus Christ – Latter Day Saints,” i.e. Mormons? That might be the problem – I think the Catholic church may not recognize them as Christian. If it’s the same “Church of Christ” that we have in the U.S., though, the baptism should be recognized. (If he gets it. As long as he remains unbaptized, es otra cosa.)

Post # 12
Member
831 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: May 2013

@Igem:  It is not forbidden in the catechism of the Catholic Church to sacramentally marry a Catholic and a baptized non-Catholic Christian.  It is possible that you are coming across so much resistance as this situation comes under higher scrutiny in Panama than it does in the U.S., as they might not come across mixed marriages as often (I realize I am making assumptions here).

Do you live in Panama right now or are you just getting married there because it’s home? Not sure if you live in the U.S. but if so maybe you can go to your local parish priest for advice?

Post # 13
Member
831 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: May 2013

@This Time Round:  I saw your edits, but it doesn’t change the fact that the information you provided was incorrect.  Specifically the following statement:

The ONLY way that the Catholic Church will accept your marriage completely to a Non-Catholic is IF he converts… and yes that means he has to be baptised in the Catholic Church (EVEN IF he was baptised as a Christian by another Church… again, a Catholic Holy Sacrament that the Catholic Church sees as “theirs” and only theirs)

This is simply untrue. I’m sorry to be singling you out on this and I realize you had good intentions to help the OP, but there is so much misunderstanding about Catholicism it warrants clarification.

Post # 14
Member
3697 posts
Sugar bee

Looks like this was a double-post, because it’s popping up as another thread, where another knowledgeable Bee posted this helpful information:

Its in Canon Law of the church that with a dispensation, a marriage with disparity of cult is considered valid, but non-sacramental. That said, if your Fiance was to be validly baptized (either before or after the marriage occurs) it will automatically convert to a sacrament.

For the Catholic Church to recognize a baptism, water must be poured and the words “I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit” must be said. Maybe your Fiance belongs to a church that doesn’t validly baptize in the eyes of the Catholic church? If he wants to get baptized, maybe he could consider participating in RCIA classes?

I hope that is helpful. You can google information about the Catholic Church and Canon Law to get more information.

Her username is LindyLu, and that’s a good explanation for why your FI’s church’s baptism might not be recognized. Most Christian denominations follow the same formula for baptism, but if they do something different, that might be the root of the problem. Have you asked your Fiance how baptism works in his church?

Post # 15
Member
1210 posts
Bumble bee

This was posted on the Interfaith board as well, so I just copied and pasted my response here. Regarding baptism – I relate some information below, but the Catholic Church recognizes most Christian baptisms, but not all.

Its in Canon Law of the church that with a dispensation, a marriage with disparity of cult is considered valid, but non-sacramental. That said, if your Fiance was to be validly baptized (either before or after the marriage occurs) it will automatically convert to a sacrament.

For the Catholic Church to recognize a baptism, water must be poured and the words “I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit” must be said. Maybe your Fiance belongs to a church that doesn’t validly baptize in the eyes of the Catholic church? If he wants to get baptized, maybe he could consider participating in RCIA classes?

I hope that is helpful. You can google information about the Catholic Church and Canon Law to get more information. Good luck in making your decisions.

Post # 16
Member
1210 posts
Bumble bee

@KCKnd2:  Thanks for reposting that!

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