(Closed) Christianity and white supremacy

posted 2 weeks ago in Weddingbee
Post # 61
Member
1425 posts
Bumble bee

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@teaandcake:  For sure! I just don’t feel comfortable arguing with a black conservative here. For me, there’s a difference between having a conversation with white people across the spectrum about racism and talking about it with someone of my own background. 

I am an educator with predominantly white students so I am very used to playing THAT role in a professional setting (I teach Black literature and history courses) but intracommunity discussions are different…

The best way I can describe it is talking about feminism with a woman who is anti-feminist in front of a bunch of men. 

Post # 62
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1945 posts
Buzzing bee

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@teaandcake:  I just want to say that for all those not living in the US, it’s important to remember that it’s a huge country and depending on your region it could feel like a different country. You simply can’t put all Americans in one group. It’s important to remember that in its infancy, America was part of several different countries with completely different enthic groups living there…and even in the English Colonies people established different colonies for different reasons which contributed to different attitudes. This has lead to whole regions where people believe and prioritize different things and is a major contributer to our present-day political division. 

This is a really interesting article for those who want to know more:

https://www.businessinsider.com/the-11-nations-of-the-united-states-2015-7

Post # 63
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1945 posts
Buzzing bee

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@mrssouthernfairytale:  I love how you describe your experience! I was a white woman teaching American history to a school of black and hispanic kids. It was the place to talk about current and historical racism and I’ve never been more aware of my race before. I have to tell you a lot of those discussions were comprised solely of the kids talking and my listening and moderating. 

Unfortunately there is a serious lack of black educators, especially men. I did the best I possibly could, but it absolutely isn’t the same. 

Post # 64
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396 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: October 2021 - Boulder, Colorado

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@strawberrysakura:  I’m a non-American living in the US. While I do agree that there’s a lot of variation, this is true for many other regions of the world and there are in fact unifying traits that can apply to Americans in general. We tend to see more variation and individuality in our own in-groups and treat other groups as monoliths. It feels ethnocentric to remind non-Americans to stop seeing America as a monolith while Americans don’t make the same effort for other countries. How many Americans know the different regions of the UK, let alone the different regions of England? You can get an entirely different accent after driving for 45 minutes in England. There are so many Chinese and Indian languages that people from the same country often can’t understand each other.

Post # 65
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1945 posts
Buzzing bee

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@teainthemountains:  Yeah there’s some truth to that, I think the difference is that the USA was colonized and ruled by different countries and many states have roots in those separate countries. Regarding England, it’s a MUCH smaller country and while there are absolutely different regional differences they are not quite so split by sovereignity as well as geographic divisions such as deserts, mountains, and waterways. I’d argue that you’d find much similar cultural differences in comparing England vs Scotland/Wales/Ireland. 

America was colonized by the French, Spanish, English, Dutch. There’s the original Native American cultures which are absolutely different from one another. Then America gobbled up parts of Mexico so you have Mexican which is a mixture of Native American and Spanish, African culture due to the slave trade, Caribbean culture which is often a mix of Spanish, Native American, and African. Finally tons of Asian culture especially along the west coast, where there was a massive influx of Asian immigrants, and other immigrant groups with a large presence such as Italian, Irish, Jewish, German…many arriving in droves to escape hardship in their countries of origin. That takes into account massive differences of perspective that you just don’t commonly find in other countries. 

Post # 66
Member
218 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: January 1999 - Tacoma, WA

I think it is dangerous to take any fringe group that may identify themselves as ‘fill in the blank’ and then associate them with an entire religion/sex/orientation/race/ideology/etc. 

Post # 67
Member
396 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: October 2021 - Boulder, Colorado

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@strawberrysakura:  I don’t think that necessarily makes the United States any different. Indonesia, where I was born, was colonised at least by the Portuguese, Dutch, and Japanese. There’s also a huge Chinese immigrant community that comprises about 2% of Indonesians (myself included). Indonesia has thousands of islands with many different languages, religions, cultures, ethnicities, etc. That’s just one example.

I’ve lived in six countries across three continents. I agree that America is diverse in a way that non-Americans often don’t realise, but so are other countries. Like I said, believing that your own in-group is unique is ethnocentric. Native populations exist in other countries too. North America is not the only place in the world with an indigenous population.

Post # 68
Member
1945 posts
Buzzing bee

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@teainthemountains:  Completely aware and agree with that. I was actually thinking of Indonesia as I was writing. I think maybe you misunderstand me. My intent was not to state America was so special and unique to everyone else, it was to remind people outside of the US that there are some extreme regional differences and not everyone is the same, especially since the point of the post was to talk about things that are currently happening in the USA. As you mention, there are any number of colonized areas outside the US with the same sort of dynamic, but that doesn’t negate the original point. I’ve traveled extensively and have lived in several other countries as well, and if I was talking about colonization and indigenous populations across the world it would be a very different conversation. 

Post # 69
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1046 posts
Bumble bee

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@strawberrysakura:  I think it’s something that is really hard for Brits who have never travelled in the US to get their heads around.  I know there are huge differences across the country, because I’ve met people from a number of different states, but the sheer size of the place is difficult to get my head around!  One of my friends helped her daughter move last year, and they drove for 3 days to her new home – over here, there’s not really anywhere you couldn’t get to in a day’s driving (unless you were going to one of the islands, where you’d need to wait for a connecting ferry/flight)

I guess that’s maybe the most important thing to bear in mind when having any discussion like this – is that the person one is communicating with may be from a totally different background and have different experiences.  It’s very easy to assume that everyone else is ‘just like us’!  

Post # 70
Member
845 posts
Busy bee

Fascinating discussion. The current link between Christianity and white supremacy is hard to deny, but there is a huge percentage, perhaps greater than half, of non-Christian white supremaists. For the seriously hardcore supremacists, Christianity is too non-white in its origins for them. Many are atheist, and many are Asatru or similarly pagan as long as their pagan gods are sufficiently Germanic. 

 

Post # 71
Member
67 posts
Worker bee
  • Wedding: January 2023

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@yogahammy:  I think that humans have a tendency to run away with ideology (regardless of religion), and to use it to oppress others. The 20h century has many examples of atrocities committed by secularist movements, and the body count is very high.

Post # 72
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1046 posts
Bumble bee

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@techmom:  If any Christians are involved in white supremacy, I’d say they have little or no understanding of the faith they follow!  

It’s the same with ‘Christians’ who are anti-Semitic…Jesus was Jewish, so how they begin to justify that behaviour is totally beyond me.

 

Post # 73
Member
3120 posts
Sugar bee

Some vague thoughts on the issues.

It seems to me, from across the Pond, that Christianity and politics have become strongly intertwined in the US.

Certainly, there has been support for Trump amongst Southern Baptist leaders because of his (supposed) support for the abolishment of abortion. In doing so they have ignored many of his other characteristics.

But I think that it all goes deeper than this. Many US Politicians display their religion and their patriotism in the same breath. Here in the UK most (but not all) politicians avoid mentioning their religion, and yet ironically several church bishops sit in the house of Lords.

Here in the UK we don’t pledge allegiance to our flag and so seeing Americans do this or seeing Americans believing that God favours America among all the nations seems decidedly odd.

Like all religions, Christianity can be twisted to good or evil.. All groups, right, centrist and left, claim that God is on their side. Yet, it is clear from the Bible that Christ favoured the poor and meek over the rich and powerful every single time. Some politicians have carried this out: Abraham Lincoln and William Wilberforce and the abolishment of slavery, for instance. 

I think that, like Christ, we need a bias not to a particular colour or creed but simply to the poor. We shouldn’t leave anyone behind. Riches are not a sign of great blessing but of great responsibility. 

Post # 74
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1046 posts
Bumble bee

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@Supersleuth:  “Riches are not a sign of great blessing but of great responsibility. “

Love this!

Post # 75
Member
2068 posts
Buzzing bee
  • Wedding: October 2018

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@Supersleuth:  Riches are not a sign of great blessing but of great responsibility

Can someone please bang this into the heads of the many “prosperity” preachers we have here in the US?  Oh wait, they’re in it for the prosperity soooo nevermind.

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