(Closed) Daughter might be a pathological liar. Help

posted 7 years ago in Parenting
Post # 182
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3041 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: May 2010

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@TexasSpringBride:  Ok I didn’t know all that background. It sounds like you’ve done everything right & everything you can think of. I just don’t get it. Have you talked with the therapist about why there’s not an improvement? Do you think you need to switch her to someone else?

And I in no way thought that you made her feel unloved at all! Usually kids who feel abandoned feel unloved or easily replaced. So that’s why I brought up the she needs to feel loved thing.

ETA: Also, I agree with PP that you should especially reward & focus on your other kids who are behaving. Esp your son, since he’s always been so forgiving & had a bad school day.

Post # 183
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2912 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: July 2013

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@distracts:  I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to connect commitment with abandonment. It was poor sentence structure on my part. I wasn’t supportive of commitment for two reasons: 1) to HER it would seem like abandonment and 2) I was hoping there was hope of improvement with a new therapist who had the proper training and personality for the issues.  

 

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@TexasSpringBride:  ((Hugs)) Holy crap that’s a really fast escalation on your daughter’s part. She’s angry with you for punishing her for something she doesn’t think is wrong, and she knew the worst way to get to you was to get your son in trouble. I said above that I wasn’t supportive of commitment. Past tense. This is really tough to say, but she is completely out of control. She’s ruining people’s lives, and without some very serious help, she’s only going to get worse and worse over time. How much time do you and your husband have left before she accuses the two of you of something really heinous and get your children taken away? One day a victim of her lies won’t be so accepting of an apology and may take legal action against you. Same outcome. Distracts is right; it’s not fair to the other kids. 

 

All of the other punishments and therapy attempts haven’t done a thing to help her. Other people have talked about juvie or military camp. Commitment amounts to the same separation, but she would be with professionals who know how to deal with her. It’s an extreme action, but NOTHING else is working. It doesn’t mean that you’re abandoning her or that you don’t love her. Quite the opposite. You love her too much to wait for her to get into worse trouble. Please consider it. When you find a new therapist, talk to him/her about it and see what the options and outlook are.

Post # 184
Member
249 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: July 2014

@TexasSpringBride:

 

Spanking, which I agree she is too old for, will likely only exaccerbate the problem, as excessive discipline often lies close to the root of excessive lying in children.

 

if her current therapist isn’t working out, i would really urge you to consider changing professionals.  it sounds like she has some very deep seated reasons for behaving the way she does and the longer her behavior persists the more it will be reinforced (no matter what you and your SO do).  I’m not close enough to the situation to know, but it sounds like some of her behavior could be bordering on antisocial personality disorder and that is a very dangerous place for the brain to be.  If her psychologist is addressing the symptoms only (the lying) and not the deeper issue causing it progress is unlikely.

 

Post # 185
Member
405 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: July 2013

sorry this is very unfortunate. My brother is 29 years old and had therapy for 8 years in addition to a Big Brother in the Big Bro/Sis program for his lying. My mom has a domestic violence case because of one of his lies and a teacher at our elementary school was fired as a result of another lie he told. Sad to say, he made a lifestyle out of lying and if you didnt know him he could more than likely tell you the sky is purple and you would believe him without a doubt. None of the help worked and he still is a huge liar. Hopefully she will get better with it.

Post # 186
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1602 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: August 2013

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@TexasSpringBride:  On switiching to a smaller schoole the thrapist “advised against it because it would give her the attention and special treatment she is seeking.”

I don’t see where this is neccesarily a bad thing.

Not the same story but my little brother had sever add/adhd/dislexia – he was kept in regular schooling ‘to keep him socially connected’.

My mom switched him to a tiny alternative school while he was in high school and with the extra attention he thrived. He finished high school before I did because of it.

Maybe giving her a little extra attention in this way wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world…

Plus – a fresh start might be really good for her now that she is realizing the consequences – such as having no friends.

Post # 187
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3041 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: May 2010

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@TexasSpringBride:  I’m sorry, I did not read through the whole thread until now.

I think that switching to another psychologist who specializes in the disorders (idk the type, but other bees mentioned it) would definately help. & if that doesn’t work, maybe she needs to be committed (I think that’s the right term). Maybe you can talk to her about that. If the lying doesn’t stop, than she will have to go there for awhile. You could even take her there to see what its like (do they allow that?). Not to scare her, not as an empty threat – but as a real life possible situation she could get into. & ONLY say that if you really follow through. It will be hard on you, but she can’t make this her lifestyle. It needs to be stopped, even if its an extreme way. Talk with your DH & the therapist (the new therapist) about if that could possibly help before saying that.  

I know someone who is a liar & manipulater (she’s an adult). Her immediate family had to cut her off. We wish she were younger so she could be placed in a program (the committed thing I talked about), but since she’s an adult there’s nothing anyone can do. We don’t trust anything she says & she’s so fake. The sad thing is, something bad could happen to her & we’d just assume she was lying. Like the girl who cried wolf.

Post # 188
Member
2638 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: November 2006

I kind of agree with the person who said that it’s unfair to your other children and the family dynamic to have her around, terrorizing everyone at will. It sounds like the whole family is on pins and needles around her.

I also think that sometimes you do need to get angry in front of her and show her that you’re PISSED and she’s the one pissing you off! Discipline and punishment are a part of parenting, even the most emotionally-damaged kids need boundaries and not to be treated with kid gloves (so to speak) all the time.

Post # 189
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9916 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper
  • Wedding: June 2013

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@TexasSpringBride:  Did you see what I wrote about having her do helpful things for people after she lies about them?  

A student from my school went to a juvenile center for psychiatric care because she threatened to hurt her younger sister.  She is in fifth grade, age 10 (she might be 11), and I think at her placement she was given a lot of intensive therapy, taught how to deal in social situations, and given sort of a tool box to deal with her emotions and behavior.  I don’t know that your step-daughter is there yet.  

If she were my student, I would certainly WANT her write about why she is lying.  However, you mentioned that she has dyslexia.  You also said she has a 504.  Does she also have an IEP?  If school is difficult for her, then writing is not going to be a way for her to express herself.  Perhaps instead you could get a recording device and have her talk to it.  You could set it up like an interview or something, record what she says, play it back and listen together.  The goal is to get her to think about what she says.

Post # 190
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2389 posts
Buzzing bee
  • Wedding: July 2011

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@TexasSpringBride:  I feel bad for your son.  I would wish she wasn’t my sister too, if she did crap like that to me.

Post # 191
Member
2747 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: June 2012

I am also seconding the WHOLE FAMILY THERAPY idea.  That way she won’t feel like something is wrong with her specifically and that the whole family is involved with healing.  

Post # 192
Member
1144 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: December 2011

Can she got to juvenile detention for her lie against the teacher. I would see if the police I could get her admitted by parents. Honestly therapy and punishment doesn’t seem to be working, I would personally look into a military style schoo if the volentary lockup didnt workl. If she dosent have any sympathy for others I would be concerned she would  seriously hurt my other children or someone else. Have you had her mentally evaluated?

 

Post # 193
Member
70 posts
Worker bee

I am so sorry for what your family is enduring. My heart breaks for you.

I have only a BA in psychology and was in a Masters program for Marriage and Family Therapy, but I studied personality disorders. I, too, believe she needs to be evaluated by a psychiatrist. Also, like some one previously mentioned, you should consider family therapy in addition to her individual therapy.

I will add your family to my prayer list and lift you up in prayer daily.

Post # 194
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2297 posts
Buzzing bee
  • Wedding: June 2015

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@TexasSpringBride:  i think it’s great that you tell her that YOU will never leave HER – but is she aware that SHE may be forced to leave YOU?

i would talk to her seriously about how if this behaviour continues, soon the consequences won’t be given by you – they’ll be given by the police/court system. talk to her about what a restraining order/probation/community service/mandatory halfway house means.

there may come a day in the next few years that your daughter will be sentenced to a facility – mental or judicial. at this point she sees YOU as the ultimate boss of what happens – when she gets in trouble at school, they call you and when she’s in trouble at home she’s punished by you. 

she needs to know that that will not always be true – that there are things that mum can’t stop. ie – a court order for her to live in a juvenile facility. she needs to know that you don’t control everything and that you won’t be able to stop certain things from happening if she doesn’t alter her behaviour. 

talk to her about the court system – if she’s 11, depending where you live, charges can be brought against her starting asap (canada is age 12). that sounds extreme – but it’s not, it does happen. i would take her to youth court (it’s public) and explain that those people don’t get to go home, and that even though their parents want them to come home/don’t agree with the punishment they can’t do anything to change it. 

Post # 195
Member
556 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: January 2014

@TexasSpringBride:  I’m sorry you are in this position, but in my opinion spanking is not gonna help you. I agree with the terapist you guys need to point out her behavior and let her know it’s not right and punish it, but I would also reinforce the positive atitute, let’s say she really wants a barbie (or whatever she likes) and you tell her alright, you can have one thing you want if you stay out of trouble for 1 month or 2 months, something like that, to encorage the child to behave. I think he will eventually grow out of this fase, but you need to keep up with the therapy so she doesn’t evolve into a even worse teen.

And if the lying doesn’t stop even when you take her stuff I would keep taking more stuff and make her do more house work everytime she lied again, and even check weekly (or daily) with the school office to see if she is still telling on other people.

 

If she doesn’t grow out of this pattern, I would advice military school when she’s older. They do put most of teen in their place. 

Post # 196
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440 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: November 2012

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@FauxBoho:  It was a sad time, but rest assured, I have come out of it stronger and I am a very happy, loved person as an adult, and believe that my past has made me who I am today and I wouldn’t change who I am for anything.

 

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@TexasSpringBride:  I think it’s telling that she also has dyslexia- that on it’s own can be a very stressful frustration for a child, especially as there is a constant fear that she will be made to look embarressed if she can’t read. Reading is the key to educate yourself about the world, if you can’t do that, it can be a very lonely place.

Have you considered giving her a chance to take up a hobbie like acting? Acting is a great outlet for dyslexia and for problem children, given them a chance to act out roles in a safe environment, while teaching her to read lines will improve the dyslexia.

I really really want to stress that there is a difference in the human psychology between “Bad” and “Mad” and all too often vulerable people get labelled “mad” when they simply need the right guidence to get to a better place in their life. I would find it heart breaking to think that all other possible avenues were not looked into before letting her go into a system that that imo very rarely works.

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