Post # 242
Also, I re-read my post and don’t see where I used the word “natural” even once. In fact, I said specifically that men are NOT inherently more qualified to be the head of the household. They hold that position–in the ideology to which I subscribe–because it was assigned to them by God. Not necessarily because of a natural ability toward such.
Post # 244
I totally agree with you.
However I did notice that in your repsonse you put “were excluded”, are women still excluded from unions? If they aren’t, I’m not really even sure why that would still be an issue.
On a worldwide scale, yes, women are very much opressed, I have no arguement for that. But so are men, and so are children. It’s pretty much a given.
My whole response was more based on the US and parts of Canada.
I know there are problems in other countries, I have never denied that. There is not anything I can do about it from where I am so I only deal with the problems that I can do something about.
It really just rubs me wrong that many of the women on here that are openingly calling themselves feminists, and are argueing over my “cushy job” comment, seem to indeed, work in cushy jobs. .
ETA – I have also not said that cushy jobs are NOT strenuous in the mental sense. Cushy jobs CAN be exhausting, but they are not physically demanding.
I don’t know how anyone can claim to fully support feminism, while working in a career that isn’t fully supporting it. I guess for some it’s more about their choice to work in that career, than the career itself. Which is fine! I just feel that it’s a bit contradictory.
Post # 245
*bats eyelashes* well, thank ya 🙂
Post # 246
The thing is, “humanism” is not the catch-all term for “all humans are equal.” Humanism is actually associated with the philosophies that underpin Western Society (including rationality and secular individualism) and, when warped, have been used to exclude minorities from legal and political systems. Historically, humanism was solely focused on the male citizen (citizen, not individual) and was about re-focusing our attention on men (and specifically men), rather than God (along with drawing on philisophical works pre-dating Christianity).
Feminists believe in gender equality, but I don’t stop at saying “men and women are equal.” In what? In innate capabilities, in complementary capabilities? Does gender exist? Do personality differences matter more than sex differences? And *are* we actually equal, in terms of economic, political representation, and social statust? Are we equal in terms of victimization? Where are men more likely to suffer and where are women more likely to suffer? What influences this?
I just get worried that people who say they are “humanist” are also the people who don’t “see color.” Yes, people are of equal worth, but that is different from saying people have equal opportunities. And if you consistently see that certain groups fare better than others, they are not equal, and your politics must incorporate this.
Post # 247
Women are still excluded from unions, but more importantly, dangerous jobs for women (in the U.S.) are not unionized and never were. For instance, you might think that the minority women who work in nail salons have cushy jobs. But they are constantly exposed to dangerous chemicals and have higher rates of cancer than women not in those jobs. Sex workers/prostitutes do not have unions. That is an industry dominated by women and vulnerable men and is probably one of the most dangerous industries around. They are not protected at all. Why?
House cleaning, factory work, and migrant farmwork are done by minority women – all dangerous, all difficult. I don’t know about their union representation but would be curious to see some research. I imagine it will not be en par with men’s, where unions even exist.
Post # 248
- Wedding: April 2013 - A court...
No. If someone is saying something that comes out to men> women then yeah, I will say something. But I’ve never thought about it/ labeled myself that.
Post # 249
I don’t understand your hang up about the type of jobs people have. Do you think teaching is a “cushy” job? Are you someone who thinks people are elitist if they have a college education? I’m just not seeing the point.
Post # 250
I’m glad that some people agree 🙂
I think focusing on providing equity and equality to one group of people does not get at the root issue of human inequality. I’d like to see a movement that provides recognition of all people’s right to equal treatment, and as well as an action plan that works towards closing many glaring gaps.
I do understand that we need to start somewhere, and feminism is a great start… however, I think that it is too much of a narrow focus and other groups of people are being left behind (Aboriginals/natives, people with disabilities, seniors, immigrants etc. etc. etc.).
Post # 251
Makes me sad to know that so many women don’t think that all should be equals in this world. I long for the day when this isn’t the case anymore, just like racial equality, gay rights equality, etc. I am very thankful to all those women over the last few decades, centuries, etc. that fought hard for women’s rights and for us to be treated equally. I’m so glad and feel fortunate to live in this era and not be looked at (by most people anyway) as someone who’s only place is in the kitchen, rearing children and who’s only careers could be a teacher, nurse, etc.
I’m not only sad, but surprised that so many women still look at feminism as a bad thing and don’t think that they are equals to their male counterparts.
Post # 252
As a previous poster mentioned above, I think there needs to be more discussion about what feminism truly is….I think many men and women don’t understand the true meaning, so many who say they aren’t feminists actually in fact are.
Post # 253
That’s a really great point. I know it will have differing definitions to everyone on the board, but I thought I’d share what Feminism means to me. I’d love to hear from all sides on what they agree and don’t agree with. I will also include the “Flip Side” to things because I feel that Feminism helps men as well as women. Please keep in mind this is Feminism as I see it.
The Feminist POV:
1. We live in a society in which women are valued less than men by virtue of their gender alone.
2. This society view creates systemic problems in the lives of women, including but not limited to:
- Women are expected to fulfill only the roles society allows them. These include “pink-collar” jobs (which are less desirable because they are considered “women’s work”), and taking care of the home and children. If a woman wants to do something outside of these jobs, they are met with sexism from men AND women. The FLIP side: Men who genuinely want to take care of their kids/home or take pink collar jobs are seen as jokes. Men rarely get custody of their children in disputes.
- Women and girls are continually given negative images from all media: ads and movies that legitimize rape, turning women into objects used to sell products, and young girls and full grown women being constantly barraged with ads that they need to have: “Caucasian blue eyes, full Spanish lips, a classic button nose, hairless Asian skin with a California tan, a Jamaican dance hall ass, lon Swedish legs, small Japanese feet, the abs of a lesbian gym owner, the hips of a nine-year-old boy, the arms of Michelle Obama, and doll tits.” – Tina Fey. Any deviation and you are ugly and worthless. The FLIP side: Men are given completely WRONG ideas of what beauty is, further complicating their dating lives. And I KNOW my Fiance curses the voice in my head that calls me fat, because he just wants me to be happy.
- Women’s status as the “lesser sex” feeds into a global society in which violence against women is rampant, permissible, and even expected. Even in the US, a woman is sexually assaulted every 2 minutes and 97% of rapists never spend a day in jail. The Flip Side: Men are not seen as trustworthy. Instead, women must assume that all men are violent in order to protect themselves from a society that will not protect them.
3. (Modern) Feminist Goals:
- To change the default in (western) society from “White Wealthy Male” to “Human.”
- For people to see the same potential in young women as they do in young men.
- For any person to be able to pursue their goals without encountering obstacles based on their sex alone.
- To impose harsher penalties and more thorough investigations on those who sexually assault women.
- To allow women to leave abusive relationships without fear
- To keep women in control over their own fertility, as well as extend it to those who cannot.
- To stop the scourge of FGM.
- Ultimately, to make every person the master of their own destiny.
This is by no means a comprehensive list, but they what Femnism means to me. I think the movement could use an image overhaul and it could certainly do more to intersect with the LGBTQQ community, to include minority women and men, and consider the disabled, among other things. One thing I will assert: we do not live in a “Post-Feminist Society.” There is still work to be done and I think that Feminism can help to do that.
What do you think?
Post # 254
I voted not really. I like the ideas that feminists support, but I don’t identify as a feminist.
Plus I have had a lot of feminists look down on me for my choices, and it doesn’t sit well with me.
Post # 255
I would 100% call myself a feminist
Post # 256
Maybe it’s something you should take into consideration. Nearly every thread you join you immediately dominate with a condescending tone of “Why do you people not understand.”