(Closed) Do you “submit” to your husband?

posted 9 years ago in Relationships
Post # 182
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1212 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: June 2012

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@Mrs Sarah McK:

Only in bed, and only then when I ask for it.

Awesome. 

Post # 183
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4369 posts
Honey bee

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@ttwo2: What really bugs me about the Biblical passage on submission is that it, like others noted, does in fact compare the husband to Christ and the wife to the Church. That does not sound equitable to me at all. Others are arguing that it evens out in the end because the wife submits and the husband loves so all is fair, but how is having the man like Christ and the woman like the Church evening things out? Christ is Lord over the Church, meaning the husband is Lord over his wife. It makes absolutely no sense to me how that can be equitable.

Yes. This is what I keep thinking also.

Post # 184
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1356 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: June 2011

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@Mrs Sarah McK:  Otherwise, we both try very hard to see a situation from the other’s point of view, and not just give it lipservice. If he can see why something is important to me, and vice versa, it makes it a lot easier to reach a compromise (or to give in, when there’s no compromise available). This never happens with big decisions, though. If we disagree about big things, we talk and hash it out until we come up with a solution that makes us both happy.

 

This, exactly! I was raised as a Catholic for awhile, and then my Mom decided to stop following. There are many, many things that caused that decision, and to me, something like this is one of them. I would never just give in to my husband if he felt his idea was better than mine, or that he was “being lead” in some direction. We would talk it over – and if it ever came to a point where one of you had to just “give in” to make things better, what kind of marriage is that?

A healthy marriage is one in which you can communicate effectively. And I’m not referring to an argument over who takes out the trash. I mean serious disagreements – child rearing, family issues, etc.  – you should be able to make a decision as a couple, not have to just give in to your husband or more dominant partner.

Post # 185
Member
1040 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: May 2012

We’re pretty equal. I think it’s important to consider the TIME the bible was written. A lot of things need to be interpreted within the context of the historical period in which it was written. I think during that period, it was the norm and the ‘right’ thing for wives to be submissive. Times are a changin’, so that’s not the case anymore. I’m Catholic. In my RCIA classes, our instructors always make a point to interpret verses within the historical context. I find it very helpful!

Post # 186
Member
2441 posts
Buzzing bee
  • Wedding: April 2011

People like to pull that part of the Bible but they don’t read the entire passage.  The entire passage basically says that both husband and wife are to hold each other in high regard and work together to show love and respect for one another’s ideas.  It does not say that women have no say and just have to do whatever their husbands tell them to do.  Read it for yourself.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+5%3A21-33&version=NIV

I have agreed to submit to my husband.  I have yet to run into a situation where he just lays down the hammer, just because he can.  He seeks my opinion and advice on all matters that concern us.  He respects me and I respect him.  We both work hard at it.  Actually, he does a better job at treating me well even when I get a bit snippy.  

Post # 187
Member
7288 posts
Busy Beekeeper
  • Wedding: October 2011

There are 6 greek words used in the New Testament to convey something like our modern concept of submission: hupotasso, hupakouo, hupeiko, peitho, peitharcheo and dogmatizo. Keep in mind that many greek words have different meanings based on their context. It is no different in English. I may submit a proposal or submit to a search before boarding a plane. Words take on different meanings based on how they are used.

The word most commonly translated submit or subjection is hupotasso. Hupotasso is a military term used to signify a surrender on a battle field. It’s non military usage is different.

It can mean any of the following depending on context:

      Arrange under

      Yield to admonition or advice

      Obey

Hupotasso is not used to convey a sense of involuntary obedience to human command or authority in the New Testament. The New Testament words that best represent that are hupakouo and peitharcheo.  Neither of these words are used in reference to church leadership.

The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament states the following:

For a material understanding of the verb in the NT its considerable range of meaning should be noted, especially in the middle. Originally it is a hierarchical term which stresses the relation to superiors. But one should note that the subordination expressed may be either compulsory or voluntary. In the former case the main idea may be that of either power or conquest on the one side or lack of freedom on the other. In the NT the verb does not immediately carry with it the thought of obedience, ? I, 223, 31 ff.; VI, 9, 24 ff. ? 40, 29 ff. (Kittel).

Hupotasso, as it relates to members of the church interacting with each other is “a voluntary attitude of giving in, cooperating, assuming responsibility, and carrying a burden.”  When Paul instructs the Ephesians to “submit to one another out of reverence for Christ” it is clear that he is speaking the sense of “arranging under” or “yield to admonition or advice” He isn’t telling people to obey each other. In 1Cor 16:16 when Paul calls on the Corinthians to submit to “everyone who cooperates in the work” it is clear there is no sense of hierarchy.

Post # 188
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2441 posts
Buzzing bee
  • Wedding: April 2011

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@Eva Peron: Wow!  That is an awsome explanation!  Thank you!

Post # 189
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7288 posts
Busy Beekeeper
  • Wedding: October 2011

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@2ndtime: I figured people may be blowing the word submission out of proportion and the context. 

I guess Christianity just has a bad rap and people assume that you must be barefoot and pregnant while having to ask which color nail polish you can paint your toes with 😉

Post # 190
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2495 posts
Buzzing bee
  • Wedding: January 1991

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@Eva Peron: Great explaination!!

This is one of those things that Christianity took entirely too far (and out of context) historically, but also got a bad reputation for that won’t go away, sadly. 

The true, actual meaning of the expression “submit to your husband” how I and DH understand it is exactly how Mrs. Argentina explained it.  It doesn’t make me inferior, less of a partner, etc.  To me it means remembering that my husband has an equal say and not trying to manipulate and control him, as is my natural tendency.

Interestingly, the Greek word for “head” (as in the husband is “head of the wife”) can also mean “cornerstone” or “foundation.”  I’ve always thought of this passage as more or less saying, “husbands, be a rock for your wife and wives work together with your husbands and not try to control everything.” 🙂

It’s basically saying that naturally, our tendency is to look out for ourselves, and in marriage, it’s more important to look out for your spouses needs.  However, the bad connotation with the word “submit” has been used and abused, and many marriages have unfortunately been male-dominant and abusive as a result.

Post # 191
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7288 posts
Busy Beekeeper
  • Wedding: October 2011

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@piglet_625: Yes! Well said!

Post # 192
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2495 posts
Buzzing bee
  • Wedding: January 1991

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@Eva Peron: Thanks!  It’s hard to really understand the meaning behind any passage like this without having an understanding of both the historical context and the language used.  I took 2 years of Greek and 2 years of Latin back in the day, so it hurts my geeky heart when these words are misunderstood and makes me furious when they’re used by men to abuse their wives.  It’s NOT the intent, nor how anyone, Christian or not, should understand this passage.

Post # 193
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7288 posts
Busy Beekeeper
  • Wedding: October 2011

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@piglet_625: haha! I totally understand! This thread has been breaking my heart with its lack of Greek/Hebrew underpinnings.! lol

Post # 194
Member
1359 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: June 2012

If submitting to someone doesn’t mean you’re “under” them, then why have two different actions for husbands vs. wives to do? Why aren’t both wives and husbands called to submit? 

Post # 196
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3367 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: March 2011

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@Eva Peron:  Replies like that are why I love the bee!!

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