Post # 76
- Wedding: May 2015 - The Fairmont, SF
MrsBagel: Sorry to be annoying but it actually depends on where you live. In the EU, for example, corporal punishment is banned, along with a few South American and African countries. I know that most bees are coming from the UK/UK/AUS/NZ regions but it is important to remember these distinctions, especially when travelling.
Post # 77
I concentrated in children’s laws in school and I can tell you that what some of you are calling “spanking” (belts?? seriously?? and this is coming from someone who was beaten with a belt regularly) is flat out abuse that you could be arrested for if your child ever told his teacher or another adult about it. And even temporary foster care is a scary scary place, you do not want your child going there. Before you start “spanking” I high;y suggest you read up on your state’s children’s code and see how they define abuse. Then I hope you get disgusted with yourself because you are determining how much force you can use on your child to avoid being arrested.
And lol at all the “I would NEVER spank out of anger” posters, my dad apparently said the exact same thing before I was born and I distinctly remember him red in the face screaming at the top of his lungs as he beat me with a belt anywhere he could reach me. Once you give yourselves license to beat up someone who can’t defend themselves, it can be very hard to control.
Post # 78
liameowchelle: I’m in the US. And it is perfectly legal. As I said, I’m not a hitter, but I have given spanks. And IMO, my kids are better for it.
As long as there is no ABUSE (very, very different from a spank, BTW), a spank on the bum doesn’t cause irreparable damage. Neglecting, punching, beating and verbal abuse are what causes irreparable damage. Me being a goodmom, who 99% of the time can control her kids “spank free”, is me doing them a favor.
Post # 79
j_jaye: When did I demean your profession at all? I actually stated in my post that I do respect it.And yes, I mean full well to say that we see different things. Because we do.
For the last time I will make my final statement – from my point of view there is too much negativity stemming from using any physical force against ANYONE. Children have rights too – they should not be subjected to physical violence (and yes, hitting is violence) just because you are their parent. You wouldn’t slap someone elses child. You shouldn’t slap your own. Thats all I’m going to say.
Post # 80
amanda3334455: Its not different. Its violence against another person that you are meant to protect and care about.
When have I said spanking your child makes them criminals? I have said RETROACTIVELY and RETROSPECTIVELY criminal children in the majority of cases recall recieving corporal punishment during their childhood. Whether it was ‘loving’ or ‘respectful’ or ‘without explanation’. That is my point. That isn’t just my opinion – thats almost 10 years in the youth judicial system.
Perhaps ultimately there isn’t a right answer – but this thread called for opinions and thats mine.
Post # 81
I will say in the state I live in, Pennsylvania, spanking is perfectly legal as long is it does not lead to serious injury. For example, it would be perfectly fine to swat your child’s hand when misbehaving as long as you do not debilitate the hand in doing so. I do not think a quick swat on the hand or bottom constitutes child abuse and according to the state laws they do not view it as child abuse either.
Post # 82
- Wedding: May 2015 - The Fairmont, SF
MrsBagel: Don’t worry, I know the US laws on spanking – I’m American. 😉 My point was that just because it’s legal in one country, that it may not be somewhere else – just pointing it out for bees with kids who intend to travel. I personally have issues with the idea of spanking because I don’t think that 40 countries and UNESCO can be totally wrong in their views against corporal punishment. I suppose my POV also comes from the fact that I was raised in a no-spank family and my Fiance and I are firm believers in never striking our children (he was spanked).
Of course, that’s just one opinion. I don’t have children yet and I’d never judge a mother for doing what she thinks is right for her family. I don’t think that anyone can say one disciplinary method, without considering other factors, makes someone a good or bad mother.
Post # 83
Dizbee: Screaming at someone red in the face and hitting them with a belt is definitely something that I think qualifies as abuse and something that I would never do.
Kelly6871: Giving a child an occasional gentle slap on the butt for doing something dangerous that they know they are not allowed to do, is not violence. Violence is pushing/shoving/slapping/hitting/punching, etc.. violence is painful, abusive and wrong.
I nearly got myself killed when I was an 8-year-old child, for doing something incredibly stupid that I knew I wasn’t allowed to do (climbing on top of a roof that was about to cave in, and I would have fallen onto a concrete floor if it had caved in.. and I would have been dead). I got smacked for that.. and I remembered the shame of it and it truly sunk in for me. I never did it again.
On the contrary, the woman I mentionned in my first post never disciplined her child and told her little darling off gently when he ran into the road. Then the child ran into the road one last time and was hit by a bus. I didn’t know them that well, but it was truly terrible.
I would never slap my child other than as a last resort in those types of situation.. Better to be alive and have to deal with feeling ashamed of being given a smack, than being dead..
FYI corporal punishment is not banned in all EU countries.
Post # 84
My thought process is that there are some children who will be affected very negatively by what used to be considered “responsible” spanking and others who will not, all other things being equal. Since you have no way of knowing whether the child in question might be damaged or traumatized, and since children can respond quite well to other forms of discipline, IMO there’s no place for it.
A calm, passive intellectual conversation for a child who has just broke free of your hand to run into the road is also stupid parenting. However there is a big range of discipline between spanking and this. I would raise my voice in that situation and additional consequences would depend on the age. I also agree that there are way too many irresponsible parents that don’t supervise properly.
Post # 85
Also my parents clearly knew what they were doing was wrong. My dad would taunt me by telling me I could call children’s services anytime I want, he’d even give me the number, but I’d end up being raped and killed in foster care and which was the lesser of two evils? My mom cancelled trips with her friends when he was in one of his moods to “protect” us but rarely actually intervened. And again I reiterate, BOTH of them said the exact same thing all of y’all are saying about never spanking out of anger and only rarely in dire or dangerous circumstances etc. But they found out in the moment they couldn’t control themselves or their anger and used innocent children as their outlets for all the stress and problems in their lives. I know all y’all are saying well that would NEVER happen to me, I can control myself, but they said that too and found out they couldn’t handle it. Is that a risk you want to take?
What’s even worse is to this day they STILL say to their friends “we never hurt them, we only spanked lightly when absolutely necessary” even though I’m sure they know it’s bs. I told my mom that my dad couldn’t be around any children of mine without being heavily supervised and she pretended to not know what I was talking about. Denial is HUGE in parents who spank, how many parents have you heard who said “yeah I beat the crap out of my kids and I’m a shitty person for it and I really fucked them up?” But you hear all the time “I hit my kids and nothing happened! Go spanking!”
I obviously won’t be there to stop you from hitting your kids, just make sure you know that it can get out of control very easily and be honest with yourselves if you see it hurting more than you intended to or start seeing negative consequences.
Post # 86
Kelly6871: and again you are preaching rather than admitting that one should never use opinion as fact. As a lawyer you should be pretty clear on that right?
And the comment about sitting behind a desk and not seeing what you see (an assumption by the way) therefore your view means more is demeaning. The crack about respect was like when someone gives you a backhanded compliment.
And again where have I stated in this thread that I condone spanking? So please do stop preaching at me because all you are doing is damaging the cause. Maybe you need to get off the internet and have a relax.
Post # 87
amanda3334455: ‘Giving a child an occasional gentle slap on the butt for doing something dangerous that they know they are not allowed to do, is not violence. Violence is pushing/shoving/slapping/hitting/punching, etc.. violence is painful, abusive and wrong'<br /><br />Definition of violence : behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.
When you spank your child; you are intending to hurt them. That is the whole point is it not? Yes you are using it to teach the child respect or disclipline. But the reason we don’t ‘tickle’ our children, or ‘blow raspberries’ on our children to do this is because it is meant to HURT. They are supposed to experience that pain, regardless of how small and gentle, and not do it again.
When you spank your child, you are applying physical force with the intention to harm your child for the short term. That is violence. Not Child Abuse; but a violent act. <br />
Post # 88
j_jaye: That last part of my reply wasn’t even directed at you. It was a general statement to the thread.
Post # 89
Kelly6871: Ok, sorry I didn’t specify the difference between ‘slapping gently” and ”slapping hard”.
The point of smacking a child (gently!) is not to cause them any kind of pain, it’s to cause them embarassment and a mild shock, so that they think about their actions and don’t do whatever they were doing again! I am incredibly grateful that I got smacked when I climbed up onto that roof, because otherwise I would have done it again and I could well have been dead.
And I completely agree with your definitition of violence, and I don’t think that a gentle slap on the butt involves ”physical force intented to hurt, damage or kill someone”. A normal parent is not smacking a child to hurt it, it’s smacking a child to make it feel ashamed of its actions and therefore unlikely to repeat them.
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Post # 90
I don’t have kids so I don’t expect my opinion to hold much weight in this.
I was spanked as a child, and like some PPs said, there is a wrong way to do it. Even if you don’t go as far as abuse, spanking out of anger is the wrong way to go about it. I’m not sure there is a “right” way but I think there is a “better” way.
I think it depends how you were brought up too. If my dad spanked us, it was scary. It was usually with a belt and out of anger.
My mom on the other hand, would swat us on the bum when words just weren’t working anymore. Then she’d talk with us about what we did wrong and make sure we understood. It was never painful, I was more stunned then anything.
But you can’t really reason with a child who refuses to acknowledge your words. So the swat would get our attention when misbehaving and then use her words.
I don’t know I’ve never seen the harm in a swat on the butt, but firm continuous spanking of a child I think is wrong.