Post # 106
I know this is an old thread, but it keeps getting revived, so I just want to add my opinion about it.
I hear people saying the the “modern” definition of submission is being twisted and that really the Bible is just telling husbands and wives to put each other first. Fine. Although I do not believe in submission, I do agree that husbands and wives should put each other first. Okay.
Having said that, please stop saying that you do not pick and choose which verses of the Bible to follow. Of course you do. Do you wear clothes made of two types of material? Do you eat shellfish or pork? Is your husband or your furniiture “unclean” if he or it touches you while you’re on your period? Do you believe in slavery and that men should be able to rape their wives or that parents should kill (or have the community kill) their disobedient sons?
I could go on and on.
Believe whatever you want to believe – that’s fine by me. But stop saying that you don’t pick and choose which parts of the Bible to follow. That’s just delusional.
Post # 107
lel no – this is one of the real pearlers from my catholic school days. I love seeing people trying to convince themselves that this passage isn’t sexist…”but submit doesn’t mean submit it means respect!”…whatever it takes to get to sleep at night.
Post # 109
futurejewell2017: I’m so glad you said this.
Post # 110
bgswifey: prettygirl05: thanks. Sad that so many people don’t understand this.
Post # 111
Post # 112
Please also read the number of times Paul writes in the Epistles that men should love their wives. It certainly is a lot more times than this ONE instance of “submit” which is a poor translation from the Koine Greek.
Post # 113
I must admit, I didn’t read all of the back and forth here, but I need to drop some Josiah Bartlett wisdom on you:
Post # 114
Sorry, that cut off and I can’t seem to properly edit. Anyways, my Josiah Bartlett wisdom
“It has nothing to do with husbands and wives, it’s all of us. Saint Paul begins the passage: “Be subject to one another out of reverence to Christ.” BE SUBJECT TO ONE ANOTHER. In this day and age of 24-hour cable crap, devoted to feeding the voyeuristic gluttony of the American public, hooked on a bad soap opera that’s passing itself off as important, don’t you think you might be able to find some relevance in verse 21? How do we end the cycle? Be subject to one another!”
I had no time at all for this verse until a tv character put it in perspective for me (thanks Aaron Sorkin). It’s now one of my favourite. Although we joke, SO and I routinely ask each other how we may be subject to the other.
Mostly, if you haven’t, just go watch the West Wing
Post # 115
MelissainNC: what you are saying may make sense to you but is car off.
I don’t pick and choose out of the bible. I do eat pork. How is that possible? Jesus.
Your response has gone off topic but I would be more than happy to continue this discussion in a private message or simply another thread.
But you can say “I do not pick and choose” without living by every outlined law from the old testament. In the new testament alone some OT laws were thrown out. Other laws were made strictly as a way to ensure long life (like not eating pork).
There are moral laws, so to speak, and there are traditional laws. Christians are expected to follow the moral laws outlined in the bible.
Post # 116
<– submits to her husband as unto the Lord.
Does the hubs check with me about pretty much everything? You betcha. 😉
What an interesting resurrected thread.
Post # 117
I really struggled with the idea of submission for a while until I heard this sermon. Now it completley makes sense to me! We watched this sermon together a while back and began working on our relationship. We have never had been happier or healther. Also, I have never been as heard and respected by him as I am now. I would say since we have been practicing this 95% of the time he agrees with my input and advice and truly hears and considers me. It is sooooo important to realize that this is not giving the man the right to control or abuse you. You should only ever submit to a man WORTH submitting to. God is not asking you to submit to a man who does not treat you like christ treats the church. The bible tells a man to love his wife as Christ loves the church; to treat her in the same way they treat their own fleash. The bible is holding a man to such a high standard and to put her life and her well being before his own. If your man isn’t able to do this, then no, you should not submit, but if your man puts YOU before himself, you are able to trust that he has you and your family’s best interest in mind with EVERY SINGLE decision he makes. When we think of the word “submission” we think of being owned. This was not what is meant by this. It is meant as a player to his coach on a team together doing life, NOT a slave to his master.
Rich Wilkerson Jr. on Submission
Post # 118
hart20: But why must a wife be the one to submit to a husband? To me both should be submitting to the other at various times. That is true marriage. Any rationale for this verse hinges on the belief that men are somehow innately “superior” to women in their ability to lead. All the mental gymnastics in the world cannot erase that fact.
Post # 119
- Wedding: October 2016 - Cape May, NJ
So if a wife submitting isn’t sexist and is supposdly equal, what would an example be? What would it look like for a wife NOT to submit? What would a christian woman who follows this passage do or not do to follow this?
Post # 120
tiffanybruiser: I think the word “submit” is scary, and a better word could have been used. Although I am not sure what that word would be. I allow him to lead becuase I know he is a Godly man and will do what he believes is best for me. Submitting does not mean he can demand you to scrub the floors of the house and you must drop to your knees and obey immediatly. I think this is what most women think when they hear the word “submit”. THIS IS NOT LIKE BEING A SLAVE. Instead it is trusting him to make the right decision after speaking with you and praying over it. For example, say we are stuggling to decide if he should take a new job or not. We would both discuss it, he carefully hears my thoughts and opinons & prays about. In the end I trust him to make the right decision that will be the best for both of us. He isn’t perfect, and he wont always make the right decisions, but I know that his intentions were honestly to do what was best for us both. Think about all the fights a lot of couples experience when trying to make big decisions. The relationship becomes a power struggle. Successful companys, athletic teams, group projects, etc… all have leaders. It isn’t somone bossing you around and making demands. If I am feeling strongly about something, I will let him know. There is a saying “a child should be seen and not heard.” THIS IS NOT WHAT IT MEANS! My man hears me, and respects my opinion, more than anyone else in my life. I can confidently say that he respects all women and treats women better than most men I know.
About the men being supirior leaders. I don’t know how to respond to that. I honestly think he is a better leader than me. And I dont think all men are superior leaders, I just think having a leader in a family is beneficial to the unit as a whole. If you are the stronger leader than your husband, then go for it girl! I know many women will be offended, but I do think men tend to be natural leaders, not that there arent strong wonderful female leaders out there, and many disrespectful horrible men out there who I would not give the time of day to. But we get to pick our men, and I picked a good one who I know will try to always do what is best for me. Watch the sermon if you haven’t. He does a much better job at explaining it than I do.