(Closed) Evolution vs. God

posted 7 years ago in Christian
Post # 62
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491 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: October 2013

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@dewingedpixie:  Why are you posting about it on the internet then? 

Post # 63
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621 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: July 2014

Currently struggling to watch this incredibly biased video. 

Just because Darwin didn’t get evolution 100% accurate doesn’t mean evolution doesn’t exist. The theory of evolution has evolved itself. Human life is evolution. You start as a sperm and an egg, to embryo to fetus. To newborn, to childhood/adulthood. Your bones, brain and other organs evolve, until the day that you devolve into soil. 

By the way we can observe caterpillars evolve into butterflies. Or wait is that not considered evolution anymore? And just because something takes millions of years to evolve doesn’t matter, it still evolves.

The whole intelligent design part is laughable, because the filmmakers pretty much discredit their own point of view. Of course no human being can create a rose, we do not have the means to do so. Oh right, because it makes so much sense that this ultimate being took nothing and made everything including us and roses from it. What’s that saying again, oh yeah You can’t make something from nothing. 

Can anyone here give me observable evidence that God exists? 

Any what-so-ever? And I don’t mean hokey dokey delluded people claiming they have seen God. I mean facts, like watching a butterfly coming out of its cacoon. 

This video doesn’t compare Evolutionism and Creationism, all it does it poke holes with Darwin’s theories. For a video that’s called Evolution Vs. God (which version anyway?) the only version of Evolution that they look at is Darwinian evolution.

Science itself has evolved. So has religion, yet if it were the word of God why did it evolve, why has it changed so much. Which religion is the right one, why are there so many? 

Also, faith doesn’t mean God. I have faith that when I jump I will come back down because of gravity. I have faith in gravity. Just because I have faith in some things doesn’t mean that I have faith in God, like this video seems to imply. 

Bottonline evolution (not Darwinian “change of kind” evolution) exists. And not one single person on this planet can prove with observable evidence that God exists.

Post # 64
Member
24 posts
Newbee
  • Wedding: May 2009

I recently heard a very encouraging discussion in my congregation last week about  the very subject of Evolution after I provide this information you tell me what you think & If evolution really makes sense.

 

 

 

There are many questions that evolution cant answer, For example:

 

 

 

 

  • Why do we fill the need to worship a higher power? Where do we get that from?

 

  • Why Do we grieve or mourn when someone we love dies If we are only meant to live for a certain amount of time, The life cycle sort of speak? Why are we not use to death & content with it when it happens?

 

  • Why do we personally not want to die, Why do we cling on to life as long as possible & fight to our last breath?

 

  • Why do many of us have somewhat of a conscience and follow morals instead of living like animals out of instinct? Who designed that in us?

 

  • If we Evolved from apes to cave men from cave men to Humans whats the next stage or level that we evolve to is it super humans?

 

 

 

 

The Bible had the answers all along for all these questions.

  • Answer to point 1 (Zephaniah 2:3) “Seek Jehovah, all you meek ones of the earth . . . Seek righteousness, seek meekness.”

 

  • Answers to points 2 & 3 (Ecclesiastes 3:11) “Time indefinite has been put in there hearts.” God designed us to want to live forever.

 

  • Answer to points 4 & 5 (Genesis 1:26,27)  We are created in Gods image so likewise we reflect or are supposed reflect his qualities. “Let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth.” contradicts evolution. Also (Roman 2:13,14) Speaks of how the conscience  came in to picture.

 

 

 

 

Post # 65
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621 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: July 2014

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@adavid718:  What I’m about to write is completely my opinion, I do not speak on behalf of other non-religious persons, only myself. I know you won’t agree with what I’m going to say, and you will probably think they are ridiculous, but that’s OK, because that’s how I feel about your “answers”. 

“Why do we fill (i’m guessing you mean feel) the need to worship a higher power? Where do we get that from?”

This can be easily be turned around agaisnt you and ask why do we feel the need to look at evolution and other scientific proof agaisnt a higher-power? If there really is a God, shouldn’t it be a little more evident and clear about who is the right god and everyone should believe in him, especially if he wants us all to be good little people and make it to heaven?

 

 “Why Do we grieve or mourn when someone we love dies If we are only meant to live for a certain amount of time, The life cycle sort of speak? Why are we not use to death & content with it when it happens?”

“Why do we personally not want to die, Why do we cling on to life as long as possible & fight to our last breath?”

I’m clumping those two together as you have done because they go pretty hand and hand. First of all, you probably shouldn’t generalize everyone by saying “why aren’t we use to death and content with it” and “why do we not want to die”. This is correct to an extent, but you would be surprised by the number of people who are content with death and aren’t afraid of dying. Secondly, mourning and fighting to live is a natural-animal instinct. Considering the next question, I feel like you don’t like comparing us to animals, but bottom line-that’s what we are. And as all animals, we grieve and mourn, not only humans. I can’t say for sure that ALL animals mourn death, but I know a lot do. Just like they don’t want to die. Have you ever seen a discovery show where the lion preys on an antelope? The antelope run like HELL, they don’t want to be eaten, of course they are going to fit the lion off as much as it can. If there really was a God, you think more people would be excited to die and hang out with Jesus and them, but no that’s not the case. Because no one REALLY knows what’s going to happen, so they are scared.

 

 “Why do many of us have somewhat of a conscience and follow morals instead of living like animals out of instinct? Who designed that in us?”

Many people don’t have consciences either, they don’t know between right and wrong, they don’t feel guilt or remorse. Many times this isn’t that persons fault, it usually has something to do with an interruption in brain development, for example fetal alcohol syndrome. If you actually look in the big bad jails, many prisoners have some form of fetal alcohol or other brain developtment issue (not to say that all fetal alcohol children will be criminals!). If there really is an almighty God, why not be nice enough to give all of us a conscience? For those who do have a conscience, myself included, my morality is props to my parents. They are the ones who taught me right and wrong, how to be a good person, etc. and guess what!? they didn’t get it from God, they got it from their parents! Who got it from their parents, and so on. If God “designed” it in us, and I don’t believe in God, why don’t I just run out on the street and start killing people? I have no obligation of being a good person to anyone, but I still am. And, is it just me or were there/are there a bunch of wars going on where the religious persons are doing the killing? Didn’t realize God wanted us to love each other until you find someone who doesn’t believe in him, then kill the crap out of them!

 

 “If we Evolved from apes to cave men from cave men to Humans whats the next stage or level that we evolve to is it super humans?”

Simply put-yes. There are “super humans” and if you’re interested you can even watch some good old scientific documentaries about them! (WARNING: contains evolutionary beliefs). Over time genetic make-up changed and every now and then a woman pops out a kid who can do some pretty neat stuff, like run continuously without getting tired, and never getting cold. May not sounds as impressive as you might be hoping for, but I would still like to see you do that. I know, it doesn’t seem like that great of a “super-human” quality, but imagine what people will be able to do in years to come!


Bottom line is, us evolutionaries may not have all the answers, but you certainly don’t either (your answers you provided are just that-YOUR answers, not THE answers) (:

 

Post # 66
Member
7976 posts
Bumble Beekeeper
  • Wedding: July 2013 - UK

Firstly, it’s utterly bizarre that G-d and evolution are considered to be in opposition at all. For example, Catholics are not creationists. Nor are Church of England and all it’s spin off churches creationists… and these are two of the biggest church groups in the world. I didn’t even know that creationism was still a “thing” until I was an adult.

Obviously the video is ****. It’s not even science. Everyone else has already pointed out the flaws, so I see no need to repeat PPs.

And why, why, why have they used it to promote Dawkins? I mean, he’s a respected scientist, and I in no way mean to impugne his excellent work in the field of genetics, but his ideas about religion rely on creating a straw man… a straw man which the creators of this video have happily supplied him with! It’s like they have given him a Christmas and birthday gift all rolled into one…

One sided rhetoric and straw manning meets it’s mirror image…

Ugh.

Post # 67
Member
1001 posts
Bumble bee

I was raised in a Lutheran household.  There was never any conflict between my family’s faith and our understanding of the theory of evolution.  I do not think that evolution is something that one “believes in.” It is a fact, it is like gravity and light and matter – we have theories that we use to understand these processes and fundamental forces, but our theories do not alter the things themselves.  The only thing that alters is our understanding.  And that understanding is constantly developing.

 

Post # 68
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Newbee
  • Wedding: May 2009

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@Brace2014: Sorry it took so long for me to get back.  You make very good valid points but one of the major points I disagree with is your last statement. Actually everything I stated verse by verse is directly from Gods word the Bible (2 Timothy 3:16) ) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness.

 

If there was a Holy Book that tells us If we follow a certain course of life that would bring beneficial results to our self and others without any harm to those who follow the instructions, with a sane mind why wouldn’t we want to listen? Why do people workout? Why do people eat vegetables?

 

 

 

Let me ask you this question within one of you statements you speak of something being bad how do you come to the conclusion of whats good & whats bad who created moral guidelines or standards?

 

 

 

Is it really reasonable  to believe that by a big explosion accidentally the starry galaxy the Sun & Moon being the precise distant from the Earth to allow Human existence is a coincidence or wasn’t done with a plan?

 

 

 

Also who taught animals some of there most  spectacular qualities for example: Birds flying within a v-shape to preserve energy catching the current of the wind to fly long distances & take turns did they learn that on accident?

 

 

 

I can go on & on about the trees even insects most importantly the human body the Brain as well as organs & cells the way they function solid evidence on although we cant see God face to face with the physical eye He is seen through his creation he exist.

 

 

 

Please don’t take my response the wrong way by no means am I trying to be argumentative. Just simply providing some important facts that effect you, myself & the entire world.

 

Post # 69
Member
621 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: July 2014

First of all, I personally don’t agree with calling the bible the word of god…there is absolutely, positively no way anyone at any point in time can say for certainty that what is written in the bible is the “word of god”. As he has never even existed, the people who wrote the bible claim he spoke to them (is that correct?) How do you know these people didn’t just have a mental illness like schizophrenia? 

 

In today’s society if someone went around saying god spoke to them and that they needed to add something to the bible because god said so, no one would believe this person. People would probably assume this person was mentally ill and not even give a second thought to the silly things that person said. How do you know god isn’t really talking to them? If he talked to other beforehand, why did he stop talking to people now?

If there was a book that told me and all the other 7.whatever billion people in the world on how to live, what to eat, how to exercise, I would definately call bullshit on that because i’m not living my life according to some book with multiple authors and an orignal source who won’t even show his face.

With respect to you asking about how we decide what is bad and what is good, my answer is that it’s individal… for example, you clearly think the bible is good, I think the bible is bad. I think murder is bad, some people think murder is good. Now, who creates the guidlines of what really is good and acceptable in society? Well, that would be the good ol’ government. What’s that you say? The government hasn’t been around as long as people have? True….people also burned women to death if the suspected they were witches….and if they weren’t and they died, who cared? We don’t see a lot of that still going on today (in Canada anyways, I don’t know what the american laws are on that one) because as a society we have choosen to believe that ethically and morally that wasn’t a cool thing to do. I’m sure there are still some people who believe it is our duty to burn the witches, but they are a minority so we don’t.

If god created are moral guidelines why wouldn’t everyone follow them and those who don’t can develop some flesh eating or other deadly disease instead of the million good-moral-law-abiding-god-believing-citizens? Another thing, you can say that the bible is a moral compass on how we should act, but then why don’t we have slaves anymore? Why do we still do these things (I am directing you to an article about 11 things god said don’t do- but we do anyways)? http://www.11points.com/Books/11_Things_The_Bible_Bans,_But_You_Do_Anyway

How come religious people get to decide what rules they will follow in the bible and still be able to call themselves christians (I am limiting this to christians because are on the christian board) Why is there a number of different versions on the bible, some things say one things and some say another. If the bible is so true and important and great, why don’t we follow that ONE ORIGNIAL bible. Because it definately wouldn’t be okay to have slaves and not allow gay rights (In Canada we are accepting of that sort of thing. Canada:2 America:0)

Moving on, yes, it is very reasonable to believe (for me anyways, but I am consider myself to be a reasonable person) that there was an explosion that could have created the galaxy. I am not going to say that that is what I neccessarily think happened because honestly I don’t think much about it. Part of being an existential nihilist/apathetic agnostic is that I don’t really care how the world and people came to be, I don’t think there is a purpose in life except doing what makes you feel happy, there is no significant reason as to why we are here, nor do I believe looking for those answers play any inportant roles on how to live our lives. Getting back on topic, things explode in the galaxy all the time, whole planets implode, stars explode, the planets, suns and moons are moving and changing all the time. So do I think it’s reasonable to think that there was a explosion that possibly created everything (was there a big BAM and all of a sudden humans? No. but over however many millions of years earth is, did bacteria and other science-y things start to grow and eventually lead to humans and all other living organisms? sounds plausible to me)

Is human existance a coincidence? Sure is! It’s a coincidence (I believe a word you would probably refer it to is a “miracle”) Even though there are 7.whatever billion people alive today, it is actually riduclously hard to make a baby, the odds are incredibly low, soooooooosososooooooo many women get pregnant and for whatever thousands of reasons why lose the embyro before they even realize they are pregnant. I find that so much more reasonable than believing some invisible whatever he is created the world (from scratch?) and then here we are….If he is an entity and not an actual, physical person, please explain how he did that. Please explain why he doesn’t do it again? Why only 1 earth? Did he create the other planets with suns and moons and just leave them empty? Why would he even bother? If he didn’t create the other planets, suns and moons, what did? If god has a plan and creates every single person why did he create you? or me? I’m not doing anything special in my life (to Godly standards anyways) I’m getting married, having kids, have a career, but that’s it, I’m not trying to cure cancer to start some world revolution. Why did he create the murderers and rapists and psychopaths to live but kill innocent babies and children with disease? Why is he an a-hole like that?

Moving on (this is getting sooooome kinda lengthy, but you better be reading it all and not just skimming it!) I am no bird-ologist, so therefore I can’t answer your question to the scientifically real reason. However, I can provide you with my less-science-but-your-answer-isn’t-any-more-believable-than-mine! When your life depends on figuring out how to use the wings that your wing-less predator doesn’t have in order to fly away from them, you tend to be keen on how to do that in the most sufficient way. When your life depends on flying from one location to another location in a general hurry so you don’t freeze to death (I’m talking about canadian geese) you tend to be keen on how to do that in the most sufficient way. Did the very first flock (are they called a flock) realize this? No, if so I think we might have had a canadian geese over-population problem. I’m sure hundreds and hundreds of geese have died because of their lack of keen-nesses in learning that life-saving v-shape means of travel. But just because they know what works now doesn’t mean God gave them that ability, if he did, why did hundreds and hundreds of geese die? I’ve met many, many talented people in my life (i’m sure you have also), and just because they can do something cool doesn’t mean god gave them that ability. I believe people have brains and can learn and teach themselves without gods assistance.

Please inform me how the trees, plants, most improtantly the human body, the brain, as well as the organs and cells and the way they function (I added grammically correct comas for your easy reading, even though you didn’t extend the same courtesy to me, has god taught you no manners?) are “solid evidence” of gods creation? In order to answer that to my expectations I will require your answer to include:

-full-length in-text citation to where it notes that in the bible.

– a link and/or address to the primary source of your “solid evidence”. (I hope you have gods e-mail address)

-studies that conclude beyond reasonble doubt that god somehow created all of that and isn’t just taking the credit for it.

You may also (but not required to) find his patents on those creations (if he doesn’t already have one, I strongly suggest he get on that!). I heard of some scientists cloning sheep and cows and whatnot, and if what you say if true then god definately has the merits to sue. If fact, he could probably even sue all the fathers in the world, taking credit for providing the sperm that fertilizes the egg, when god can just inpregnant the women himself! He did it once, why can’t he do it again? If god wants people to keep having kids, why does he only have one? 

I didn’t take your response the wrong way at all! I like having discussions and reading about other peoples theories. However, I wouldn’t agree that you are “providing facts”…I don’t know if you have looked up the definition of a fact, but this is what it is: Fact:  noun

1.something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.

2.something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.

3.a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.

What you stated were not facts, they were religious belief, try not to confuse them. I also disagree with those said “facts” having any effect on me… as I said before I am a apathetic agnostic/ existential nihilist, I don’t believe in god, but even if I were wrong and there really was a god, I just wouldn’t care, I still wouldn’t follow the bible, because personally I believe I have better morals than the bible does (but good try you sneaky sneaky).

I want to add that I’m not trying to change your views, I’ just trying to open you up and see that maybe you don’t have all the answers and maybe god doesn’t exit (you can still believe in him even if he doesn’t really exit anymore than he does now). Also, try not to take offensive with what I wrote, I tried to make it a satrical debate. Have a great day! 

Post # 70
Hostess
10351 posts
Sugar Beekeeper
  • Wedding: March 2014 - Chicago, IL

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@CrazyCatLady13:  +6.5 billion! haha 😉

Post # 72
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7976 posts
Bumble Beekeeper
  • Wedding: July 2013 - UK

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@housebee:  I don’t find it offensive at all. If I’m brutally honest, however, then I don’t find it funny either. Just a presentation of a straw man view of religion. Heard it all before too many times to find it anything but dull and quite tiresome, to be honest.

If you want a more biting satire, there are so many better ones! The Book of Mormon has to be one of the best satires I’ve ever seen, for example. Also, despite the scatological and immature humour, I still find bits of Dogma extremely clever. It’s only funny of you know the finer points of Catholic dogma and Christian theology, though… there are loads of in-jokes which non-Christians just don’t get.

Post # 73
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1160 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: October 2014

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@Brace2014:  I… I think I love you.

No but seriously, you said exactly what I wanted o say to that person and other people touting that kind of… piffle. I just don;t have the necessary patience to type such a thoughtful response.

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adavid718: 

Also just to add, “Is it really reasonable  to believe that by a big explosion accidentally the starry galaxy the Sun & Moon being the precise distant from the Earth to allow Human existence is a coincidence or wasn’t done with a plan?”

Um, are you saying we thing the Big Bang happened, and 2 seconds later there were humans, the earth in its present state, and the galaxy in its current state? That’s as ridiculous as saying an imaginary little man magically made the galaxy in a week.

This explains very well the birth of the earth and our current galaxy; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHrF04Fmqes

I’ve watched this documentary and besides the terrible graphics, the information is sound.

 

Post # 74
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8434 posts
Bumble Beekeeper
  • Wedding: April 2013

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@Rachel631:  I can’t do musicals, but I’ve heard good things about book of mormon.  I did love Matt and Trey’s depiction of religion in the Joseph Smith episodes.  Dogma was just ok to me, there are other Kevin Smith movies that I find to be more entertaining.  I actually posted the link because of what gingernutjo said in post 58.  Honestly, I don’t know a single Christian that likes Jim Jeffries though.

Post # 75
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7976 posts
Bumble Beekeeper
  • Wedding: July 2013 - UK

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@housebee:  I’m not saying I dislike Jeffries because I find him heretical. I’m saying I just don’t find him very funny! He isn’t mocking a higher power at all, he’s mocking a stereotypical set of beliefs which a certain group of Christians have. In terms of subtlety and wit, it’s a bit like doing a sketch mocking feminism in which feminists are all man hating lesbians who don’t shave their legs.

Like I said… it’s not that I find it offensive. Just a bit tiresome and unintelligent. A bit like a lot of Richard Dawkins’ anti-religion stuff, in fact!

PS Dogma is really aimed at a Catholic (or, at least, a Christian) audience, which is why it’s probably less amusing to atheists.

Post # 76
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8434 posts
Bumble Beekeeper
  • Wedding: April 2013

I’m not saying I dislike Jeffries because I find him heretical.

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@Rachel631:  Oh I’m not saying that, what I mean is I don’t know any Christians that find him funny.

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