Post # 121
Sorry, bad word choice. I should have checked how “tolerate” was used in her post.
Things that OP does state: He doesn’t want her to keep her name. He thinks it shows lack of commitment. While he was ok with her keeping her name before, he’s not ok now. He would be embarrassed if she kept her name. OP said he refuses to see her point of view.
OP did write (post 55): “If it means that much to a woman to KEEP her name and it’s OKAY with the husband then so be it. But, if it’s not okay with him and most men would indeed have a problem with it, then I don’t think it’s right to be stubborn.”
So OP’s Fiance thinks that a woman can only keep her name of the man is ok with it. If he’s not ok with it, then logically, she should change her name? After all, she shouldn’t be that stubborn.
So maybe he won’t refuse to marry her if she doesn’t change her name. To me, it isn’t enough for my guy to say, “Well, I think that you keeping your name is wrong since it shows lack of commitment and it would be embarrassing and you should really only keep your name if I’m ok with it, but I won’t refuse to marry you if you do decide to keep your name.” That would be a huge disconnect in our values.
I guess the real advice for OP- since he refuses to see her view- is for both of them to just ignore it and hope this doesn’t cause bitterness to seep into their marriage; or she can just submit and change her name; or she could not marry him.
Post # 122
Agreed in theory…..However, being involved in a relationship requires compromise and I’m not seeing how her strong feelings about this issue should supersede his. No one is saying she has to change her name. Not even him from my understanding….Again, he’s acting like a petulant child but that doesn’t mean his feelings on this don’t count
The suggestion that he’s wrong for feeling that way when it is in fact a traditional element of marriage while participating in other traditional elements of marriage is hypocritical.
Post # 123
meanttobee2018 : No, he isn’t acting like a petulant child. He is acting like a controlling adult. Those are two very different things.
Post # 124
Its a crappy situation and I feel for her. The same argument could be made for him too though. Perhaps she’s not willing to see his side and that’s why he’s fighting so hard for it. We are only getting one side of this story.
Unfortunately I don’t think this will end well as neither should have to concede based on the others feelings.
Post # 125
Based on your responses, you should really reconsider marrying this person. Dictating and discussing relationship terms are two *very* different things and your fiance seems like he thinks he will get to dictate the terms of your relationship based solely on his comfort. YIKES!!
Post # 126
Also, it’s your name. Whether you change it or not should be up to you. The only people’s names your fiance gets a say in is your future children. Not yours.
Post # 127
TeresaBenedicta : There certainly is a lot to unpack about feminism and related problems! And I’m certainly able to admit that I come from a relatively privledged viewpoint.
But I think it’s important that even in the smallest of cases, we need to protect and point out alternates when possible. So in this case, I don’t see a problem with pointing out that the woman doesn’t have to change her name just because the man wants her to. The opposite is true- a man doesn’t have to change his name if the woman wants him to. (And I have yet to see the second case as a problem here. How psychotic does hat sound- “I want my husband to change his last name to mine, but he refuses!”)
To sum up: work on the big issues, but don’t lose sight of the “small things.”
Post # 128
I am really interested in what OP is going to do here?!?! Is it a deal breaker?
Post # 129
Why is it automatically assumed all children will have the father’s last name?
In the same paragraph that most Bees are arguing it’s ok for OP to keep her last name, some say ‘but if it’s for the children, that makes sense too’. I didn’t change my last name (hubby is fine with it), and we don’t have children, but if we ever did, I wouldn’t automatically assume his name will be theirs. My last name is equally as important and if I choose to grow a human for 9months and push them out of my body, they’ll have my name, thank-you very much.
Post # 130
jessie092 : I kept my last name. I’m not really sure what my husband’s feelings are on this topic. He knew I wasn’t going to take his name before we were engaged. If he changed his mind like your Fiance, it would;ve been a deal breaker for me. My name is part of my identity. I’m a PhD scientist and all of my papers are published under my name. Additionally, I’m not about to take a day off to run all over town and change my SSN card, ID, and passport. If we have children their names will be hypenated. Honestly, no one has said anything to me about it except for my dad’s new wife, who asked how my husband felt about it. Hypenated names were really common when I was growing up.
Post # 131
jessie092 : I just wanted to provide a counterpoint to another bee who was sad that her parents had different surnames. My husband’s mother kept her maiden name when she married (in the seventies!!) not least because she had a badass career (again, in the seventies!!) and he is damned proud of her and super close to her, and when we got married, it turns out he assumed I would want to keep my name too! Because “that’s what awesome accomplished women do, right?”
HIs parents raised four awesome well adjusted super successful kids, and they’re really the happiest (and closest) family I have ever met — not despite, but in part because of the very qualities that led his mother to want to keep her maiden name, and that led his father to encourage her to keep her name if that was what she wanted.
Your fiancé is subscribing to a cultural norm that people now in their seventies thought was old fashioned when THEY got married. Unless you live some place both really rural and really isolated, I don’t get where your husband is coming from.
Post # 132
At the core, the issue here isn’t just whether or not you are *allowed* to keep your name. The larger question is whether he is this controlling in other aspects of your life.
Post # 133
TeresaBenedicta : For someone who appears to be so well-versed in the various layers of feminism, I’m honestly deeply surprised to see you trotting out the tired old argument that women’s names are just borrowed names from their fathers.
This argument relies on the notion that women (and for some unexplained reason, not men) are not generally permitted names of their own.
You make the argument that a woman changing her name to her husband’s is choosing her spouse’s name over her father’s. For some reason, in this equation, her spouse actually has a name, one that is apparently his, not borrowed, but HIS. But the woman in this argument has no name of her own, ever. Only borrowed names from men.
The very way you frame that argument casts women as de facto nameless, but men as de facto owning their own names.
Regardless of whether the name comes from the father, the mother, or was picked out of a hat, female children should be considered to own their own names as much as male children do.
Post # 134
To me there is no other reason why you would not want to take on my last name other than a few reasons. For example… one foot in one foot out (not 100% sure about if its going to work). If that is the case guess what.. it is not going to work! And we should have never gotten engaged … today you are acting like its no big deal and out of that mentality we have the highest divorce rate. Wonder why?!…
This is what he said me to me today. I know it is important that neither of us force the other but something does have to give. I feel tricked and not sure if that is the attitude you’re going to have when we get married.
That last paragrpah was really hurtful and I’ve been crying (a little) because of that. He said , it was in the heat of the moment but nothing else.
Post # 135
jessie092 : How does he feel ‘tricked’?
Have you asked him if him choosing to keep his birth name means that he is one foot in and on foot out? When he responds ‘of course not’, ask him why it means different things for you than it does for him?
He’s being a manipulative, controlling, sexist asshole.