Fiance wants me to sign a prenup and I am having doubts

posted 4 months ago in Relationships
Post # 136
Member
820 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: February 2019

It seems like there are some misconceptions about prenups here.  They are absolutely not limited to just pre-marital assets.  Ours clearly states what will be considered marital property and what won’t be. 

To me the issue isn’t the prenup but as you’ve said what is in it and how he is going about it.  My fiance and I had been talking about it since early in our relationship so when the document was sent to his lawyer there was very little to discuss because it was exactly what we had discussed and what we’d collectively decided was fair.  And we know that a post-nuptial/marital agreement is out there if our situation changes and we both trust each other to continue to arrive at agreements that are fair for both of us.  I can’t imagine putting things in the document that were new to my husband or acting so juvenile if my partner didn’t agree.  I can also say I think our agreement would be very, very different it we planned to have children for all the reasons that have been mentioned.

I think you really need to take a step back and think about everything.  I know you say you jointly arrived at the decision for you to be a stay at home parent but from what you describe it really sounds like your husband’s idea and you went along with it.  For his part I can’t imagine someone asking someone else to make a sacrifice that they themselves wouldn’t make.  The way you describe it just sounds selfish and presumptuous as if he doesn’t value your training and experience as much as his own.  And it certainly doesn’t sound like he values the unpaid labor of a stay at home mom based on the ‘value’ he has assigned to it.  I also think the guitar incident is worth a pause.  I know you say it is out of character, but do you have a lot of past experience handling disagreements with each other?  Instances when he doesn’t get his own way?  Not every couple has experience managing disagreements before marriage and sometimes there can be a rude awakening about how the other party communicates.

Post # 136
Member
820 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: February 2019

It seems like there are some misconceptions about prenups here.  They are absolutely not limited to just pre-marital assets.  Ours clearly states what will be considered marital property and what won’t be. 

To me the issue isn’t the prenup but as you’ve said what is in it and how he is going about it.  My fiance and I had been talking about it since early in our relationship so when the document was sent to his lawyer there was very little to discuss because it was exactly what we had discussed and what we’d collectively decided was fair.  And we know that a post-nuptial/marital agreement is out there if our situation changes and we both trust each other to continue to arrive at agreements that are fair for both of us.  I can’t imagine putting things in the document that were new to my husband or acting so juvenile if my partner didn’t agree.  I can also say I think our agreement would be very, very different it we planned to have children for all the reasons that have been mentioned.

I think you really need to take a step back and think about everything.  I know you say you jointly arrived at the decision for you to be a stay at home parent but from what you describe it really sounds like your husband’s idea and you went along with it.  For his part I can’t imagine someone asking someone else to make a sacrifice that they themselves wouldn’t make.  The way you describe it just sounds selfish and presumptuous as if he doesn’t value your training and experience as much as his own.  And it certainly doesn’t sound like he values the unpaid labor of a stay at home mom based on the ‘value’ he has assigned to it.  I also think the guitar incident is worth a pause.  I know you say it is out of character, but do you have a lot of past experience handling disagreements with each other?  Instances when he doesn’t get his own way?  Not every couple has experience managing disagreements before marriage and sometimes there can be a rude awakening about how the other party communicates.

Post # 138
Member
6148 posts
Bee Keeper

thatlass :  His idea was to buy rental properties with my wedding gift, set up a rental LLC, and use the rent checks connected to fund a Roth IRA for me. In this scenario, his house would not be divided in case of divorce, of course. Seriously?! 

Every post is worse than the last. He is not a good man. I’ll repeat it–he is NOT a good man. He is selfish and cares little for you or your future. He does not consider marriage a partnership. Your friends would likely tell you to run if he’d ever bothered to meet them. Please do not marry someone who views the world and marriage this way.He does not value you.

ETA: I can’t stop thinking about this. What would you tell a patient/client who told you this story? Frankly it sounds as if he has identified you as an appropriate woman to bear and raise his children, likely apart, while he pursues a successful career and enjoy all of HIS money. Expect to fight him for every nickel of child support while he’s vacationing in Switzerland and driving a car that costs six figures.  

Post # 139
Member
2220 posts
Buzzing bee
  • Wedding: October 2019 - Chateau Lake Louise

thatlass :  Other Bees have covered most of what I would have said, but i wanted to address something in specific.

Despite its reputation, real estate is a notoriously bad investment. Year over year, people who invest in the stock market see a much better return than those who have invested in properties. Particularly rental properties. Also, I don’t know where you live, but finding a property to rent for $100k would be completely impossible in a lot of markets. 

Also keep in mind, you have to maintain this property. Tenants can be hard on places. My FH is a property manager and regularly sees turnover costs – replacing carpet, paint, etc – top $6-8k Additonally being a landlord is COMPLICATED. Rules and statutes vary not just by state, but by municipality. If you voilate tenant law, they can sue you for the entire cost of moving somewhere else. 

And, paying a management firm is a huge expense. FHs firm charges 10% of all income collected, as well as posting, maintainance fees, tenant location… it goes on and on. And, there’s the possibility your rental might spend some time vacant, in which case it is costing you money, not making it. 

To really be able to make a reasonable income from rental properties, you need at least 3. The other two will typically cover any costs incured during a vacancy in the other. Most people with just one rental property find that even with a monthly income, their costs can frequently outstrip their outlay when it comes time to fix a root, replace plumbing, or put in new flooring. Considering what a headache being a landlord really is, it might end up being much more trouble than it’s worth. 

Just something to consider. By all means, keep the generous gift your parents have given you and invest it for your future, just maybe not in a rental. 

Post # 141
Member
308 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: June 2019 - City, State

thatlass :  a pre nup invalidates a catholic marriage because it shows that you don’t necessarily intend for your marriage to last until death do you part. Just throwing that out there. Not a great sign. 

Post # 142
Member
313 posts
Helper bee

I would just say no to any pre-nup in this relationship. 

Post # 143
Member
2041 posts
Buzzing bee
  • Wedding: October 2018

So basically, he doesn’t consider you an equal partner in the relationship and only proposed to pay you less than minimum wage to raise his children when you objected. In the first (and his preferred scenario), he would get all your services for free and you would leave with nothing in the event of a divorce. That’s not a marriage, but a fantastic business arrangment for him. This is awful, Bee.

Post # 144
Member
1185 posts
Bumble bee

*truth bomb incoming*

Everyone jumping down the throat of the poster saying that she “hit the jackpot” by marrying a well-earning man is willfully ignoring that fact that this is how much of how society thinks. Women have always liked men with money, I guess because it indicates safety and security and comfort. Deny it all you like but it won’t change a damn thing. I’m a doctor and whilst I’m not totally loaded (I only work part time nowadays because I got tired of not having a life), the way women unashamedly throw themselves at my male colleagues is something that really has to be seen before you can believe it. Random nurses even show them pictures of their daughters on their phones and ask them if they want a date…seriously I wish I was making this stuff up. It’s incredible, and I’m sure it’s typical of other high earning professions too. 

Does this excuse OPs boyfriends rude behaviour? No. Does it excuse him being insensitive? No. Does it even mean he’s a good guy? No he might not be. But if she’s going to marry him, then his wealth is something that is going to have to be acknowledged and discussed honestly, and managed such that they are both happy with the arrangement. Obviously she isn’t marrying him FOR his money, but also pretending that his wealth isn’t likely part of the attraction is ridiculous. 

Post # 145
Member
2041 posts
Buzzing bee
  • Wedding: October 2018

“Think about what your financial picture would be if you were single, had no kids, and were making $85K/year. You wouldn’t be banking that money–you would spend it on rent, utilities, groceries, car payment, gas, insurance, medical bills, clothing, entertainment, vacations, emergency savings. Think about what you would be saving for retirement in that situation. I doubt it would be more than $30K/year and, if not, his proposal is actually covering you for half (because these are your kids too and you have some responsibility for this decision) of what you will be giving up.”

Yes, but she won’t be single with no kids. Why get married if you make legal arrangements to invalidate the part of marriage that includes two people forming a partnership, financial and otherwise? If my husband wanted me to retain my single status financially, I wouldn’t have married him. Marriage to me is sharing it all.

Post # 146
Member
1153 posts
Bumble bee

The way he reacted to your refusal to sign the prenup he proposed AND when he knew he’d gotten to you with his loud music says it all. If he’s this vindictive now, imagine him in a divorce.

I’m not a professional but that grin you said got me thinking if he’s a bit of a psychopath. Lack of sympathy, manipulative, enormous sense of self worth, superficial charm. They also tend to be highly successful. And of course, connecting with your friends or getting involved with your social life is the last thing on their list, because it doesn’t matter to him. 

Post # 147
Member
1121 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: September 2017

For science, tell him you aren’t signing that and see what happens.

Post # 148
Member
2955 posts
Sugar bee

I am generally team prenup, but this is a contract to become his indentured servant and breed his children. Hell, he’s paying you even less than a surrogate would make for two children.

Please run for the hills. He is not a good guy, and you deserve a real partner in life.

Post # 149
Member
359 posts
Helper bee

This prenup is very, very unfair.  I am very much in favor of prenups when there are a large amount of preexisting assets.  However prenups were not meant to cover assets aquired in marriage.  If you are willing to go forward with this prenup idea,  make sure you are adequately compensated.  Also make sure you get a great lawyer to represent you.

I also feel like you’ve had advice from ladies who supported or benefited from their hubby’s career.  I make more than my husband.  When we met I made double his salary.  After we were engaged, my husband was unemployed for 9 months.  I supported him happily and without concern. Once we combined assets, I happily made him the beneficiary of my 401k.  We happen to contribute more as a couple to my 401k for certain benefits with the understanding that the 401k would be split evenly upon separation.  (I offered to put this agreement in writing, but my dh wasnt concerned.) Sure, I had contributed when single, but I didn’t feel it was enough to worry about.  I’m currently helping him pay for grad school.  

The thing is, I dont mind doing these things.  We are a team.  If he’s struggling financially, I’m struggling.  If he’s doing well, I’m doing well.  I couldn’t bear to watch him struggle financially while I’m doing well.  He was very uncomfortable relying on me when he was unemployed, but that’s what partners are for. 

To a degree, I understand where your husband is coming from.  Money is a tricky subject.  However, I do judge the fact that he seems to have no concern for your well being.  Even if we separated, I want my Dh to be comfortable (at least now.) My Darling Husband has found a good job since then.  It’s also likely that I am likely to inherit a substantial amount.  I’m simply not worried about it.  

I really do question your FI’s attitude.  As someone in a similar position, I wouldnt want my husband to struggle.  We are both professionals and highly educated.  Out financial decisions are made together. 

Post # 150
Member
8 posts
Newbee
  • Wedding: April 2018

Prenups can be a very smart financial decision. That being said, this arrangement completely devalues you and I would never ask someone I love to agree to those conditions.  It seems like he is basically assuming you’ll get divorced, and is only looking out for himself, because he doesn’t want to actually combine his life with yours. 

The guitar behavior, aside from being immature, was incredibly spiteful.  Please please think twice– it’s not okay that he is comfortable treating you that way.  

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