Fiance wants me to sign a prenup and I am having doubts

posted 2 weeks ago in Relationships
Post # 166
Member
174 posts
Blushing bee
  • Wedding: May 2012

The college thing seems kind of odd to me, tbh. A few years after graduation, I can’t even remember where my friends partners went to school and it’s certainly nothing that we sit around and discuss during dinner….if it comes up naturally, sure, but it’s not like my friends wife says “about that time at YALE when I…” ya know? Really, schools don’t matter as much after a few years in the working world…..

Post # 167
Member
2763 posts
Sugar bee

I’m not fully buying the lawyer thing either – those are really unusual terms for a prenup and I doubt they would be offered up as his go-to when someone comes in and requests a standard, fair pre-nup. 

And the excuse about the ivy league schools would make sense if he’d met all of the husbands and they were huge dicks to him about it – but him NEVER even trying to meet your friends just because their husbands went to better medical schools than him? He’s a doctor… it’s not that wide a gap.

It’s good that he was receptive and flexible in that conversation so it’s worth seeing if you can get on the same page. But his excuses are a bit weak and it’s troubling that you had to basically threaten to leave for him to realize he was being unfair.

Postpone the wedding and get a counsellor and your own lawyer and see if he’ll actually try to get on with your friends. You want to make sure he’s really looking for a partnership before you go through with it. 

Post # 168
Member
810 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: February 2019

Bee, I’m glad you stood up for yourself and took the time to organize your thoughts so you could express yourself clearly.  I have to be honest though — his story doesn’t add up at all.  

First off, as someone who pushed for the prenup in our relationship how he describes the role of the lawyer doesn’t jive with my experience.  My experience with my lawyer was directed by me.  She asked me about my situation, what I was concerned with and what I ultimately wanted in the prenup and built it from there.  Sure she offered advice on what she thought would best protect me and what would be enforceable and how to word things.  But EVERYTHING originated from guidance from me.  There were a couple things she insisted on that I didn’t think were fair to my husband so I flagged those to him so that his lawyer could contest them.

But even if that story is true (which doesn’t seem plausable), if he wasn’t wedded to the terms and was totally cool with getting a prenup, why get so upset?  Also his follow ups where it sounded like he wanted you to just live off the money from your parents was hardly kind either.

I’m glad to hear you’re still thinking through things because it just seems like such a strong flip on his part that it worries me he may just be wanting to tell you what you want to hear.  If he is really willing to let everything be community property why even go through the process of a prenup?  Doesn’t make any sense to me at all.

Post # 169
Member
12 posts
Newbee
  • Wedding: May 2019

It’s great update. However, do not back off and also keep him at what he said. There is a chance he might be secretly hoping you will forget about it all. As one psychologist said to me, women should only marry men they can influence. If you can’t make him do at least some things your way, the marriage will be miserable. And if you are a soft and agreeable person by nature, standing your ground is even more important. He needs to feel that you are important, your feelings are important, your needs are important. Some men will walk all over you the moment you become weak.

There is also a bit of concern about his excuse on why he wouldn’t see your friends. Is he somehow jealous/insecure? It’s important this feeling will not affect your marriage. My ex hated that people kept telling him he had a great wife. I would think a handsome, successful man would be happy with such a comment. But no, his mind worked in a different way…

So, of course, counselling is a must. Find a way to be sure he is not some sort of a narcissist. But also make sure he does go to see your friends, and not just once. And since he said no prenup is fine with him, don’t do it then. 

Post # 170
Member
933 posts
Busy bee

How did I miss such a wild thread.

I’ve visited some cutthroat attorneys and seen some wild prenups, but this is on the cutting edge of extreme. It could be that he visited with someone who had designed a very, very one sided prenup — but it would be guided by the conversation of your partner and your specific situation, as well as his goals. So, he entered that space with very ugly intentions.

I am pro-prenup. My situation when I married my spouse was almost identical to yours, in reverse. I had recently completed my residency and was making something in the low 200k’s as a starting salary with an expectation that it would double over the course of my career. My future Darling Husband was making around 95k.

I focused on protecting my family’s estate and inheritance in considering our prenuptial agreement. NOT protecting my salary or assets gained in marriage. I understood the idea that the life I would be building with my spouse would be defined by our partnership, and my family and our attorney helped me discuss ways to keep myself protected in the event of a tragic divorce. But, terms that were fair.  Negotiations went back and forth between the two attorneys I think 4 times?  We were both comfortable with the final resolution. Now, married for 10 years, I have an understanding of building things as a partnership in a way I only vaguely understood. Your partner is your lifeline, your strength, the other half of you that helps you accomplish things you could never accomplish without him or her.

And that is BEFORE you even bring children into the equation. 

My Darling Husband now makes several million more a year than I will ever make. And almost two year ago now, I broke my spine and reduced my hours.

Imagine my dismay if I had signed.

I agree with a PP who said a few pages back that you should collect your clinical patient hours before considering children. Do that at least, because it will be very much harder to do another way. Children can come later. 

I don’t disagree with his idea that he would not take a year off for childcare himself. A gap in employment in medicine is the kiss of death. Even women in my department who have children do not do it. I would never.

 

Also, my family nannies make around 75k a year, with a month off in the summer. They are live-in, and sign only a one year contract at a time because they are in such high demand. They are fed, and provided a vehicle and housing. So they are the closest comparison to what you would doing, as a stay at home parent. But wait, none of them have PhDs.

So your guy might want to increase that 15k to something more like 40k. money-mouth

I DON’T actually disbelieve that he is intimidated by PhD candidates from respected universities. There is a very distinct difference in the richness of vocabulary and depth of conversation between PhD candidates and graduates from prestigious universities and that of someone from a third tier medical school. You can immediately tell. And yes, people still do pay attention to those things.

You have quite a bit of power and leverage to say no, or renegotiate, any contract he puts in front of you. I don’t believe that I would sign one in your case, and I would also keep my parents’ financial gift for myself.

Post # 171
Member
11128 posts
Sugar Beekeeper

“ I asked him if you brought them up, does that mean you find them acceptable. He did not answer them, kept saying those are just hypothetical and not the real terms.”

In other words, yes, he finds those terms acceptable and would have been quite happy if you had signed. At the same time he may have chosen to start out on a more extreme end in order to “test the waters” and have room to negotiate. I think that’s what he likely meant by “hypothetical” terms. 

To me, that is emotional manipulation and strong arm tactics that should have had no place in a trusting, loving relationship. It’s only when you stood up to him and threatened to leave that he suddenly changed his tune. 

Post # 172
Member
5765 posts
Bee Keeper

I wrote a post yesterday that has disappeared–it’s highly unlikely that an ethical attorney came up with those terms. A man who lies to you about this will lie about other things. Keep your guard up, Bee. If you’re not ready to move on then put wedding plans on hold and pursue both premarital and individual counseling. Arrange for him to meet your friends. Do what you would advise someone else to do in your shoes. 

Post # 173
Member
95 posts
Worker bee

thatlass :  you handled this situation extremely well, and it sounds like he’s backed of if his ridiculous terms, so that’s good. However, it might be worth considering that you essentially threatened to leave him before anything changed. If you guys do get married, will he suddenly start taking your happiness and wellbeing into consideration without that threat? Because that threat is going to be a lot harder to follow through on, particularly if you have kids. 

Post # 174
Member
2345 posts
Buzzing bee
  • Wedding: November 2017

thatlass :   He avoided answering your question which was an answer itself.  Yes, he would have been very happy had you signed his original prenup, which is why he was so annoyed when you didn’t!  

I am a prenup proponent. However, after what he tried to pull, (make no mistake,  it was him,  not the attorney!) I would refuse one. period. He claims he’s ok with no prenup at all.  See if he *really* means that, tell him NO prenup and do not do one.  See what transpires once you’ve drawn this line and he knows you’re absolutely serious and will not sign any prenup….

Post # 175
Member
1133 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: September 2011

thatlass :  I’m sorry but I have to agree with PP’s, I do not for a second believe that this prenup was all the lawyer’s idea. Any lawyer would discuss the client’s wishes (your fiance’s wishes) and make sure that those specific wishes are represented in the prenup. I do think that your fiance brought these conditions up on his own. For example, keeping everything separate, giving you 15k, etc. Those are NOT “standard” prenup terms. Those are specific terms that your fiance brought up to his lawyer and agreed with, and that’s why they went into the document he presented to you.

If those were “purely hypothetical” then why is did he present them to you in a document after seeing a lawyer? Seriously bee, that does not mean hypothetical. I would bet you dollars to doughnuts that he would have been thrilled had you signed the prenup then and there. He is trying to lie and brush this off. The fact that he cannot take responsibility for this prenup is worrysome to me. And his 180 degree turn at this point makes me not trust him, either.

Post # 176
Member
507 posts
Busy bee

Hell no I wouldn’t sign it. And being a mom is worth wayyy more than $15,000 a year. Especially since he makes a pretty hefty salary. Raise your price! 

Post # 178
Member
2345 posts
Buzzing bee
  • Wedding: November 2017

thatlass :  it was not *only* in the event of a divorce he wanted you to have as little as possible! Wasn’t he proposing you pay 50% of all bills even though you make less than 1/3 of what he makes?!  Didn’t he propose you pay your own expenses, including medical insurance even while you are home rearing his children?! Didn’t he expect you to “buy into” a share of his house?! Doesn’t he expect your career to take a backseat to his?! 

Be careful excusing his self serving,  shitty behaviors because he didn’t have the best childhood. Many endure far worse yet don’t choose to be greedy, selfish and yes punitive, to those they profess to love…

Post # 179
Member
11128 posts
Sugar Beekeeper

His background is no excuse. If anything he should want to be nothing like his father. Especially as a doctor who saw how his father treated his mother. 

Post # 180
Member
411 posts
Helper bee

Postpone the wedding. Your relationship is very unstable- you just had to threaten him in order to get him to *consider* that these terms are horrendously unfair to you, let alone consider what you want. 

He needs to prove that he doesn’t care about the prenup. Without the pressure of an impending wedding. I think it will be telling how he reacts when you tell him you’re postponing- you are telling him No again. See how he reacts.

I think he panicked when you were ready to leave and backpedalled to get you to stay. He thinks if you can continue with the wedding, he just has to behave until then. And then he’ll probably try to pressure into a prenup again right before the wedding. 

There is an obvious power imbalance and it bothers me that he claims the proposals of the prenup were not his ideas, yet he got angry when you told him you wouldn’t sign it. If he wasn’t strongly attached to the terms of the prenup, why would he get angry that you refused them? Wouldn’t he have been like “oh okay, yeah we can negotiate what is fair and will work for us” and be flexible. He was not. 

And he is old enough to know that being selfish and greedy is not normal or acceptable just because his parents were like that. What a convenient “poor me” excuse. He was smart enough to get his MD- he’s smart enough to know that what he’s doing is wrong. 

DO NOT give him a dime of your parents’ gift of money!!!!! That is NOT HIS and if you get a prenup, you better protect that money because when you divorce (I’m sorry) he will be vicious and take everything from you given the chance.

I’m really not impressed with him. Proceed with extreme caution if you proceed at all. And with an ironclad prenup. 

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