Post # 106
It is great to be an “independent woman.” I consider myself very independent, but not necessarily in the financial sense. It isn’t that I couldn’t have been, as I am educated and worked for a great company prior to having children. Dh and I – as a team – decided that it was best for our children and our family if I stayed home. He travels a lot and we decided it would work best for us if one of us was consistently there for the kids. Me staying home was an arrangement that was to his benefit and mine and to the benefit of our children, and there are sacrifices that need to be made in ANY family. We decided that sacrifice would be my career and earning capabilities, and it was a trade-off we were both willing to make.
I now work outside the home again, as my children are teens. But being home for over a decade had a significant impact on my career and earnings. As I said, I do not disagree with pre-nups in general, but I wouldn’t have made the sacrifices I did without the knowledge that I would be taken care of should he walk away (I can’t imagine him doing so, but everyone says that). I AM entitled to a portion of his retirement, etc. You may frown upon that and not consider me to be an independent woman (though my Dh would disagree!), but I believe that when both partners agree that one of them should put their career and earnings on hold for the sake of the family as a whole, that person deserves some guarantee as to their future security.
Post # 107
No way. So many red flags. My husband earns way more than me and owned a multi million house before marrying me. He alsois an only child who will one day receive a considerable inheritance. Not once would he consider a prenep. Its jinxing a marriage and dont love someone if you already think it wont work.
Post # 108
sboom : I do get it, I just don’t agree with you or the consensus regarding what constitutes “fair”. Fair, to me, is each party taking their “toys” and going home should things go sour. We’re allowed to disagree. Maybe if someone took a significant hit to their earning potential (which again is that person’s choice – would they take a hot to their earning potential if they intentionally became a single mom, ie artificial insemination?). But if you had an earning potential of $30k and hit the jackpot by landing a doctor – lol no, you don’t deserve half of his earnings. They have a term for people like that.
OP should decide if she wants kids or a career more and focus on that. Or she could have both, but her husband wouldn’t be a doctor.
Post # 109
No one here would blame you if that guitar suddenly went missing – just sayin’
Post # 110
whitecollarbee : “But if you had an earning potential of $30k and hit the jackpot by landing a doctor – lol no, you don’t deserve half of his earnings.”
You keep saying shit like that, which is not what anyone is talking about here. Literally NO ONE here has said it’s reasonable for someone with a 30k earning potential to expect half their spouses income and savings if they divorce… Most reasonable people would agree that is silly.
And you keep talking about personal choice and saying basically that if OP doesn’t want to end up fucked over if she gets divorced then she shouldn’t stay home with the kids, and maybe she shouldn’t, but if she and her FH make a joint decision to remove her from the workforce for a time to raise kids because they believe that is what is best for their family, it is not fair for her to assume all of the risk involved while he assumes none.
The way you talk about personal choice (well don’t stay home then, I’d never marry someone who works that much, etc.) makes it sound like you very much do not view marriage as a partnership. When you’re married, all your decisions are joint decisions and all your outcomes are joint outcomes. If you’re making all your choices as an individual, putting your individual interests ahead of your shared interests, that’s pretty sad.
Obviously both partners need to think about the potential fallout from these decisions and how they will be impacted individually, but at the end of the day in a healthy marriage, those individual sacrifices/risks are weighed against the joint benefits and sometimes those joint benefits are deemed to be worth the individual risk. When that happens, the partner who is taking more individual risk is and ought to be entitled to a certain level of security and not left vulnerable to financial ruin should the relationship end.
Post # 111
So if you’re staying at home with the kids and that’s a decision you both make together, then if he wants to protect his retirement he will have to pay for everything for the family while you are at home with the kids and also pay you whatever you would have put into retirement during those years that you are now not working and also more for the fact you’re behind in earning potential. I would take your 100k wedding gift and invest it and then the prenup can have exactly how much equity his house has at the time of your wedding and if you do divorce, any equity over thay amount is to be divided in the event of a divorce. For instance if his house now Is worth 500k and he only owes 400k then in the event of a divorce if the house is worth 700k and he owes 200k then he has 100k safe, 400k left in equity after his safe 100 and the 200k loan and he has to buy you out with 200k or sell and you get 200k. This is fair even if technically he is paying the mortgage while you’re looking after the kids and not earning money. Because homemaking is a job and you’re contributing to the mortgage in the sense that he is able to work for the fact you’re not!
So if you still want to marry him you give him these terms. However he sounds like a selfish and greedy prick and even if you stay married forever he will always be a selfish and greedy prick who doesn’t see you as his life partner but as his incubator for children and nanny to them before they start school.
Post # 112
whitecollarbee : Just because someone chooses to sacrifice a few years of their career for their family does not mean they have to be left financially insecure should they divorce.
Decisions involving children are made by the two people who created and are raising the child. Both partners make sacrifices to care for the child. In this case, one partner is making a career sacrifice and the other is making a financial sacrifice. That is how equal partnerships work.
Your argument that she should be left without financial support is ignoring the fact that her partner also wants her to stay home with the children. Therefore he must also make certain sacrifices, such as supporting his wife while she is at home, and supporting her afterwards while she is getting her career back together. It doesn’t matter whether they’re married or divorced at that point. They’re both making sacrifices to accomplish what they believe is best for their children.
Post # 113
I would wager that most of your conversations go like this:
You: I would like to do this.
Him: I want this to happen.
You: Ok we’ve made a joint decision to basically do what you want.
Maybe your education and career was something you just decided to do for fun, but most people who invest that much time and money don’t do something that could potentially throw it away. Your profession and career trajectory and just as important as his, so why are you not advocating for yourself?
Post # 114
whitecollarbee : It is really weird and frankly offensive that you call marrying a doctor ‘a jackpot’. The other bees have pretty well stated the numerous reasons that your point of view is short-sighted and naive so I don’t feel a need to repeat that.
Post # 115
Men with substantial financial means are often quite protective of it, especially if they’ve made it themselves.
I really do feel like you should sit down and have a heart to heart with him about it. Pick a good time. Have an idea of what you would consider “fair” and gently suggest that and give him time to think about it and respond. Good luck. xo
Post # 116
- Wedding: November 2018 - City Hall
In my own personal experience from going through divorce, your (ex) partner can suddenly become another person, you are suddenly exposed to their worse side (not everyone of course, but this was my experience).
If these are his terms when he “loves” you, I’d be afraid to see what they become during the divorce process…
Post # 118
Wow what? Hitting the jackpot by landing a doctor?
My hubby isn’t a doctor but makes as much as many doctors.
So I guess I’m a gold digger for falling in love with him when I was a single divorced mom? In grad school no less, so certainly not making what I am now.
And how about all us spouses of doctors, lawyers, consultants, and so forth, who got married when the spouse was starting off, and now they are making the big bucks? I know my own husband’s career took of much bigger after we got married, and I’m sure in no small part because he didn’t have to concentrate on day to day life stuff. Sure, I reaped the reward financially but he also reaped the reward financially as well – since he could make more.
That’s really insulting and I can promise you, I didn’t marry my husband for his job, in fact, it’s caused a ton of conflict over the years. It’d be easier to just make more money myself than to try to marry for money, but I loved the guy. Are you saying that everyone should only date and marry in their own tax bracket? That tax returns should be examined and firm plans of future career steps and heights need to be set forever more on the first date?
Post # 119
thatlass : I just saw your comment. You sound like an intelligent and highly educated woman, I would hate to see you waste it, in general, or on this guy. He does sound selfish and I think you can find someone more willing to support your career.
Good luck. I’m bowing out of this discussion now.
Post # 120
missviolet92 : if a prenup is jinxing a marriage, is health insurance jinxing your health? life insurance jinxing your life? car insurance jinxing getting in an accident?