Post # 16
jellybellynelly : I’m not a vegan, but I do always it funny when someone boasts about buying their free range eggs or organic/grass fed beef – from a supermarket.
Same here. It drives me bonkers.
If more people just consumed a less meat and made an effort to source it and eggs/dairy locally from smaller family farms it would be a huge improvement.
Post # 17
- Wedding: December 2017 - Courthouse
Yes I saw a breakthrough video of the baby chicks dying on the conveyor belts when I was in college so I’ve been buying cage free eggs ever since then. Unfortunately, that still doesn’t mean a whole lot. I don’t own a home yet (in the process) but I’d love to raise chickens or buy local eggs.
Post # 18
Nothing, unless grown or done in your own backyard is cruelty free.
We are trying to really live off the grid the best we can living in the city but are not allowed “farm animals”. We just make our own compost and grow our own veggies.
We do want our own chickens someday. Our goal is to get financially able to buy land and expand our garden and get chickens (and other animals). I can’t imagine killing and eating them though.
Post # 19
redwinetime : I vaguely remember hearing about some new technology that could eliminate the need for culling male chicks, I maybe read an article or heard it on a podcast. I just googled it and this is perhaps it:
Another article about similar technology research in Germany and the Netherlands https://www.nationalgeographic.com/people-and-culture/food/the-plate/2016/06/by-2020–male-chicks-could-avoid-death-by-grinder/
Just thought you might be interested.
Post # 20
Ugh, as someone who is born and raised in the agricultural industry can you guys stop shaming all of the ways we raise food for you to eat, please? I’m directly involved in the industry from all aspects (firsthand raising animals to marketing for it, etc)
Ever think about the fact that having chickens lay eggs in cages is the most efficent way for them to produce the food FOR YOU TO EAT? Ever think that those chickens are actually liviing the life and are SURVIVING? Think about it – chickens producing eggs in a cage are SAFE, they are fed and watered, given mediciation (*gasp, oh no antibiotics!!) to make sure they are healthy and producing eggs for you to eat. You do realize that “free-range” chickens are in MUCH, MUCH greater danger than those in the cages? I’ve seen it firsthand because I’ve raised chickens, and I’ve lost count how many times I’ve cried because I walk out to find my laying hens dead thanks to predators…. because yes, while they have sufficent access to shelter, I wanted to give them the option of going outside and truly being “free-range” (within a fenced area of course for containment). So don’t go thinking that the hens who are laying eggs in a cage are miserable or being mistreated (and yes, not every facility abides by standard animal care regulations) because I hate to break it, but they’re WAY better off than allowing chickens to roam free and then you wake up and suddenly you have zero chickens to produce eggs which equals zero dollars you earn for an income.
I’m not trying to be ignorant… I could point to a lot of other animals you claim to not buy food products from because of how they are raised or treated but do you ever think that farmers who raise them use the methods they do to ensure that you have food on your table? Those chickens are their livelihood, those cows are what brings in income for farmers…. do you seriously think for a second that they would harm an animal that brings them in an income? In fact, statistics show that less than 2 percent of the population actually farms and provides REAL FOOD for you to eat, and those farmers struggle to make ends meet for their own families just so you can have your three meals a day.
Rant over. Honestly, if any of ya’ll want to openly ask me questions about the agriculture industry, comment back to me or DM me. Seriously, I love talking and educating people about it. I’ve got a bunch of great resources for you to reference as well.
As for efficency in providing food – the world’s population is estimated to be at 9 billion people by the year 2050. If you say farmers waste land for their cows (which actually provide more than just food, FYI) you are very wrongly mistaken. There is tons, tons of things being done every day to be more efficent with the land and water resources that are left.
Post # 21
redwinetime : the eggs I buy are pastured. Free range means nothing. I look up the farms my eggs come from. We also buy organic whole milk and I educate myself on the company there as well.
I am moving towards a plant based diet for health reasons but the way that animals are treated in factory farming is just atrocious. It’s heinous and unacceptable.
Post # 23
kmmq72 : Thanks for your reply bee. I’d like to start by saying that you don’t produce real food for ME to eat as I, like many other people who have commented on this thread don’t eat or use any animal products.
Veganism is often mistaken for an attack on farmers but it really isn’t. Everybody (including vegans) need farmers to survive we just need plant farmers rather than animal farmers. I agree with many of the points you made such as animal farmers are just doing their best to provide for the demand for meat and animal products of society. People who eat the animal products are just as culpable for what happens to these animals as the farmers (as they are the ones that actually pay for it). The thing is though, that many people don’t know what has to happen to produce the animals that they consume. That’s why I posted about chick maceration – because before I went vegan I had no idea that that would happen in a developed country like Australia. I also had no idea that in my state it’s completely legal to smack a day old bobby calf in the head with a mallet.
I’m really interested to know what you think of the footage of baby chick maceration? Do you find it upsetting? I don’t understand why you would cry when you see laying hens killed by predators outdoors but are happy to personally send them to their death when they can longer produce eggs?
Also to answer your question of whether I think anima farmers would purposely harm an animal that brings them income – my answer is absolutely yes. How is chick maceration not harming the animals? how is confining them to a cage where they can’t engage in any of there natural behaviours or packing them in a free range barn so tightly that they peck each other to death not harming them? How is packing them in cages so tight that we have to use antibiotic prophylaxis to stop spread of infections not harming them? How is sending them to slaughter well before their natural lifespan is up not harming them? I’m not saying animal farmers are bad people but when we treat animals like a commody animals intersts take a back seat to profit margins.
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As a side note, I do gasp when you say that you give chickens antibiotics. Please see the world health organisation reccomendation below that you stop using antibiotics in healthy animals – Antibiotic resistance is one of the biggest challenges facing the medical profession in the 21st century. 85% of the worlds antibiotics are currently being used to prevent infection in farmed animals and this is a huge contributing factor to antibiotic resistance of organisms that may then infect humans. It is a huge concern of mine that my future patients (humans) are going to be dying of infections that we can currently treat with a course of antibiotics. If animals weren’t so closely confined and living in such unsanitary conditions there would be no need for antibiotic prophylaxis. Of course this isn’t neccessarily the farmers fault, this is the fault of a society that veiws animals as a commody to exploit – to provide meat eggs and milk for a cheap price.
Post # 25
sarathemermaid : Its great that you care about how animals are treated 🙂 Just incase you didn’t know the factory in the video I posted (macerating the chicks) supplies laying hens to free range farms. Even if you buy a couple of hens to keep yourself in the backyard you have to think 1:2 chickens born are male, so what has happened to the male chickens that you arent buying? They likely ended up macerated – and by buying laying hens you’ve unknowingly supported this practice.
I can tell that you care about animals as you’re trying to minimise your negative impact on them and thats great. Knowlege is power and the best way to minimise your personal harm to animals is to find out what happens to them. Have you tried watching earthlings before? Its available for free on youtube. 🙂
Post # 26
I actually have been aware of these practices for some time. I don’t really think it’s a secret what happens to male baby chicks or baby cows. But changing habits are difficult. Especially if you are cooking for a whole household of people (in my case a major carnivore husband and 3 kids) who have grown up eating meat and using animal products. I personally think I could easily be a vegetarian, but I doubt it would go over well with my family. So I try to make more meatless meals, but they will never be vegan.
You seem critical of PP who are making attempts to minimize their impact and move toward practices that support humane animal conditions, just because they are not fully vegan. It is off putting and I doubt it would sway anyone. Perhaps instead of scolding people’s good intentions, you could share your favorite vegan recipe? I’d be willing to give it a try.
Post # 27
eeniebeans : I told the PP that the factory in the video was supplying to free range farms because I geninuely think she might not know – I certainly didn’t know just a few weeks ago and I wish someone had have told me. Its good that you are aware of what happens but many people (like myself) are not.
I understand that its hard to change especially when you live with others and I think it’s great that you’re trying to cut down your animal consumption. I live with other people that arent vegan as well and we’ve all eaten animal products our entire lives. I’m usually the person that prepares the meals so what works for us I prepare a well balanced vegan meal and occasionally the meat eaters will prepare some meat that they add to the meal. For example last night I made a tofu and vegetable stirfry and my husband cooked himself some chicken which he stired through his portion of stirfry. Most nights he can’t be bothered so he just eats the meal as I made it. I dont have kids so its hard for me to comment on that, but I plan on raising my kids how my mum raised me – she wouldnt always make me what I wanted but she did always provide a healthy meal. Plenty of vegan meals are healthy, and if they want chicken nuggets instead either dad can make them or it’s tough titties.
Maybe starting having a vegan meal once a week would be good for your situation? Especially if you start with things that people dont even realise are vegan like falafel wraps or bean enchiladas.
In terms of recipes youtube is a great resource: I really like the channel sweetpotatosoul 🙂 https://www.youtube.com/user/SweetPotatoSoul
Post # 28
FWIW, I’m not vegan or even vegetarian and I do not feel criticized or scolded by the original or any follow up posts. Changing habits, tastes & routine is hard (and a long process) but information & awareness is key to it.
Everyone has different amounts of time, money, access and even just mental energy for these things. Most people would probably like to do a part to improve on it. If that means just adopting Meatless Mondays, it’s a good th thing. That’s pretty impactful when done in large numbers. And I think those small measures often snowball. I know it did in my household over several years.
Im too passive or cynical to be an awareness raiser myself. I’m sure glad their are others who take the time to try to do it.
Post # 29
wildflowerz : completely agree.
For most people its unreasonable to go from meat eater to vegan overnight. I went vegetarian 3 or 4 times in the last 10 years but each time it only lasted a couple of months because it’s really hard to change something that you’ve done for your whole life – I didnt know what to eat if I wasnt eating animals, and I didnt really like vegetarian foods because I wasn’t used to eating them. But each of those times that I tried to go vegetarian I learned a little more about what to eat and it’s been almost a year since I’ve eaten meat now. Even when I went vegetarian this last time I had no intention of going vegan – I was just intending to cut down the harm I brought to animals. 1 month ago I realised that I didnt want to be a part of animal exploitation any more and decided to go fully vegan.
I think a common mistake people make is thinking that they can continue to eat animal products and do so in an ethical way. “Ethical meat” is a lie to us to keep us eating meat when we start to realise the harm that it’s bringing to our animal friends. All animals want to live their life and be free just like we humans do so how can we ethically justify taking that from them for no reason (other than our convieniece/culture/pleasure).
Cutting down animal product consumption with a view to stopping altogether is the only truely ethical option.
Post # 30
It is disgusting. I’ll never buy eggs that aren’t free range and it’s such a big thing here that McDonald’s and Wendy’s only do free range eggs. I always thought the roosters just ended up as chicken meat? Also to the PP who, mentioned grassfed meat. I’m thankful I live in a country with only grass fed beef and lamb!! It should only be grassfed.