(Closed) Friendly Debate Time…to circumcise or not? NWR

posted 3 years ago in Babies
Post # 226
Member
244 posts
Helper bee

aussiemum1248 :  what ended up happening with my uncut guy was that he didn’t use condoms, but he also didn’t decide to get a circumcision because they slipped off.  (Fyi, he’s the one who wished his parents had circumcised him, but didn’t see the need to go through with it on his own.)

Maybe alternate forms of birth control work for preventing pregnancy in committed relationships, but they don’t work if your goal is disease prevention.  I don’t want my son to end up in this same position, not using condoms because they’re a pain (and not in the it-doesn’t-feel-as-good sense).

Post # 227
Member
7642 posts
Bumble Beekeeper
  • Wedding: November 1999

allywed :  and condom design won’t improve in the next 20 years?

What if there was a female condom which only worked on certain shape vulvas? Does society then perform surgery on infant girls, or look for a better condom?

Post # 228
Member
244 posts
Helper bee

aussiemum1248 :  no, I don’t think that condom design will improve over the next 20 years.  If the AIDS epidemic didn’t improve condom design, nothing will.  

Look, I’m not some big activist for circumcision.  My one and only uncut lover had problems with the condom slipping.  I didn’t think too much about it as we were in a committed relationship and I was on the pill.  A few years later, I came across information about how and why the US military forced circumcisions on GIs during the Korean War.  It all kinda clicked and made me realize that my ex wasn’t the only one with this issue.  (Not to mention a little googling on the topic tonight, confirmed this isn’t that unusual.)

My main point is that you do make a choice one way or the other for your child.  I choose to protect my future sons as much as I am capable from stds.

(And having tried a female condom (with my uncut ex), thanks, but no thanks.)

Post # 229
Member
7642 posts
Bumble Beekeeper
  • Wedding: November 1999

allywed :  The proportion of men who were uncircumcised was much lower when HIV/AIDS emerged in the 80s (30 years ago!), so I don’t buy the argument that there’s no chance of an improved condom.

For the rest, I think we’re going in circles 🙂

Post # 230
Member
3224 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: May 2015

allywed :  so I started googling the slippage thing too – the top results are info on how to properly apply a condom to an uncircumcised penis to prevent it if you are having those issues. You can google the opposite as well – circumcised men can and do experience slippage. It’s a very small amount of increased risk without circumcision and it seems there are ways to help prevent it even in those cases. Not, IMO, a good enough reason to mutilate a child. 

Post # 231
Member
178 posts
Blushing bee

I wasn’t going to chime in any more but I just wanted to say that the majority of men in my life are uncircumcised and I have literally never heard anything about slipping condoms. 

I imagine that, of course, this must be a legitimate problem for sime people. But to be perfectly frank, I think that there must be some fraction of these people who do not apply the condoms properly in the first place.

And I don’t know where y’all are coming from talking about condoms like they’re all the same design. Different companies will have different shapes, use slightly different material blends (like non-latex for those with allergies) and lubricants. If you’re having issues even after you’ve gotten the technique down, you could try buying different brands, or different textures (or flavours even😉)

Case in Too Much Information point: when SO was living in Paris, the condoms there were so much tighter than the ones here in Canada. The first time he used one, he freaked because the tightness discoloured his skin (though he felt just fine). So that’s a difference there. Again with the Too Much Information: he’s on the larger end of the size scale and he’s never had issues with slippage or breaking (seriously, you can shove an arm in them and they’ll be fine). I imagine condoms get tested for performance in the smaller end of the scale too and with different girths and shapes. 

We’re also still immerging from a time where people poorly favoured condom usage and people were poorly briefed on contraception in general. A lot of males were unfortunately lazy when it came to condom usage. Those attitudes still colour a lot of people’s views and habits today. So while I reiterate that, from a standpoint of probability (if not from personal, or second hand experience), I imagine this is a legitimate problem for some, I going to have to say there is definitely a certain amount of bullshit complaining still going on. Try a variety, use proper technique, check expiry dates etc.

All this to say: I agree with the other PP who said that condom slippage just doesn’t sound like a sufficient reason for invasive and irreversible surgery AT birth.

Edit: With the male birth control pill set to be introduced possibly within the next decade (according to researchers), I think that’s even more of a reason to reconsider circumcision for that purpose. Seriously, it is such a last resort for the majority of people.

Post # 233
Member
244 posts
Helper bee

crackerjax :  There’s no explaining to these women that there are sound medical reasons for circumcision.  In their eyes it’s just unnecessary mutilation for aesthetics.

Post # 234
Member
178 posts
Blushing bee

allywed :  I respectfully disagree. I think there are circumstances where it could be performed. Like the person who mentioned it being applied in Africa. In the extreme case of an epidemic in an environment where many do not have access to proper care or hygienic washing conditions, it makes sense. Here in the developed world, we have other avenues we can and, I believe, should take before we consider something so irreversible. I would advise against shoving words in others mouths.

The issue here is the majority who do it here don’t do it for those reasons. And it IS performed for personal or aesthetic reasons. Need evidence? Go back and read through. 

Post # 235
Member
2797 posts
Sugar bee

I don’t get this thread. Why argue with people (for or against), re choice each parent can make for themselves. As far as today, it is legal and socially acceptable (at least in US), so parents can choose either way. Just because person A does not agree with it, has nothing to do with what person B will do. What other parents do or don’t do in this regard, does not in any way, shape, or form impact anyone else’s lives. If you want to circumcise (for whatever reasons), do so. If you dont want to circumcise (for whatever reason), dont. The question was “what will you do” not lets argue with one another why they are wrong.

Post # 236
Member
816 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: September 2013

allywed :  the percentage of slippage is 1%.  That’s for all men so I don’t think it’s that significant and it’s attributed to incorrect condom use.  Using a smaller condom than needed also leads to slippage.  So again I don’t think that statistic (1%) is a significant argument.  But I have to admit this brought me and my husband some laughs.  Who thought we’d end up examining the causes and statistics of condim slippage between circumcised and uncircumcised men! 😝

Post # 237
Member
3114 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: March 2016 - Surfer\'s Beach, Grand Cayman

crackerjax :  What does a nation with an HIV epidemic and reduced access to clean and/or running water and contraceptives have to do with anything? Since HIV rates are actually lower in most developed countries that have a low rate of circumcision, than they are in America, your logic doesn’t apply. They also perform FGM in Africa so I guess we should get on board with it too? 

Post # 238
Member
816 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: September 2013

crackerjax :  yes but it’s good to understand why: lack of sexual education, polyamory, misogyny, and lack of affordable and convenient condoms.  This isvhardly the case  for developed countries.  Additionally what sources also say is that circumcision is NOT an alternative to safe sex practices.  So if your in a complete wasteland a marginal solution is better than no solution but it still not a solution or replacement.

Post # 239
Member
3114 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: March 2016 - Surfer\'s Beach, Grand Cayman

allywed :  Did you actually read that the war circumcision was in any way attributed to condom slippage? I remember reading somewhere that it was because of lack of general hygiene, leaving the soldiers at risk for infection. I couldn’t find any info on it being related to condoms, which I’m sure many of them weren’t even using at that time. 

Post # 240
Member
244 posts
Helper bee

peegee :  yes, I did.  I can’t cite the source now because it was a few years ago, but yes, trouble with condoms was one of the reasons that the military circumcised.

Again, I believe this is a personal choice for parents.  I just object to the view that parents don’t make a choice that affects their sons one way or the other.  That is part of parenting. 

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