(Closed) Future In law situation

posted 10 years ago in Family
Post # 3
1813 posts
Buzzing bee

I don’t have any advice, but does he really think he can live there after the wedding?  That is crazy!  Maybe see when he thinks he will move out, and if he doesn’t have a date, you might have to be more aggressive.  Your FH should handle this, but it sounds like he isn’t willing to do it.  Good luck!

Post # 4
438 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: April 2008

this guy is an idiot.  but your fiance needs to take control here.  For him to say loaning him the money is a long-term investment in the house, he is delusional.  I assume your brother said let me BORROW the money for the CLOSING COSTS…not want to go in on a house with me and both of our names will be on it.  I assume this brother still works?  You fiance needs to say you have until X date to find your own place, give hime back what remaining money he owes him (which sounds like nothing, really).  And if he doesn’t find a place, back to the parents house he goes.  He has no legal claim to this house.  Too bad for him.  You also might have to give your fiance a kind of ultimatum.  Say, you are not happy, the living situation is not good, and ESPECIALLY not good for newlyweds.  Tell him that one of you has to move out.  It sounds like his whole family just "enables" this guy….he does what he wants, lives in his own little world, employed by his father, doesn’t support himself….but regardless of anything, its his parents responsibility to take care of him, not your fiance’s.  This guy needs to grow up!

Post # 5
39 posts
  • Wedding: March 2008

You need to take a step back for a minute and look at this from another perspective.   Ultimatly what this boils down to is your fiance bought a house he couldnt afford and then had to ask his family bail him out and in exchange took in his (I assume) younger brother.  Was there any kind of agreement on when this money should be paid back or if partial ownership of the home was now his brother’s?  If not that was again really poor planning on your finance’s part because now his brother can in fact argue that either he partially owns the home or that he should be able to live there until the debt is paid off via rent which is now further supported by the agreement they made last year.

 You mention that you fiance had worked out with his brother last year that he would simply deduct the 500 a month that he was previously paying in rent from the 13,000 your fiance owes his brother.  That means that the brother will have 26 months before the bill is paid off in full.  It has only been about 12-13 months from what I can tell in your post.  That means frankly that your fiance and you should be prepared to have him in your home for another 14-13 months before you can either A) kick him out or B) ask for actual money from him again for rent.  But just to be clear he isnt infact then living rent free as you keep saying.  Your fiance just made a verbal binding contract with his brother for that 26 months so unfortunatly if the brother doesnt want to take the money (which why would he when for him he gets to live far cheaper than he would if he had rent and utilities on his own) then you are stuck with him just as if he had signed a lease.  He may be a jerk for doing it but he has every legal right to do so, crappy as it may be.

 As for him having his girlfriend over all the time, again he is now either a partial owner of the home you want him out of or a renter who is in fact paying a fee (by subtracting money off the debt your fiance owes) to live in the home and has the same rights to guests and parking spaces as you do unless you have something in his lease saying otherwise. 

My advice would be at this point you need to:

A) stop bringing the parents into this, they dont live with you, it’s not their money, and you are all adults.  Plus it just means more angry people involved who don’t need to be. 

B) Sit down with your fiance and ask him what he wants to do and if he even wants his brother out and if so when does he expect it.  Then express to him your concerns in a calm manner and let him know you are looking forward to starting a life with just him and you soon and want this resolved before then. 

 C) Once you and your fiance are on the same page then schedule a time with his brother to sit down just the three of you and discuss things, your concerns, the future, and how to either get things evened out financially or to set some ground rules for you all to abide by.

Ultimatly as mad as you are at the brother you need to realize this isn’t a situation that he alone created and that your finance needs to be more careful about making better (more informed) financial decisions in the future since as you are finding out his decisions will affect both of you and your future happiness.

 Good Luck!

Post # 6
2004 posts
Buzzing bee
  • Wedding: November 2008

Let me make sure I have it right: The brother invested $13,000 into the house. Your Fiance tried to buy him out for $20,000, but the brother refused. So instead of the brother paying $500 a month in rent, your Fiance is counting the $500 against the $13,000 he borrowed from him. So in 2 years, 2 months ($13,000/$500 per month = 26 months) your Fiance will have paid off his debt to his brother. Ergo, the brother will no longer have any money invested in the house.

Point this out to your Fiance and to his brother: The brother does not have to accept the lump $20,000 sum your Fiance offerred, but by living in the house rent free he is tacitly accepting installment payments on the money he is owed—and thus his investment in the house is disappearing fast. Unless his name is on the deed, if the brother wants to have some ongoing stake in the house, he needs to contribute ongoingly–and contribute on time, in full. Otherwise, his “long-term investment” isn’t going to last more than 26 months from when he stopped paying the $500/month in rent—so at most you have a year left of this before legally the brother has no ground to stand on. By then your Fiance will have paid off his brother whether the brother likes it or not.

I am not sure what is preventing you and your Fiance from agreeing on this, but one thing to do would be for you both to firmly discuss this with the brother, not the parents. Discuss that you want to be fair to his interests, but that it might be in the brother’s best interest if you would just pay him off in full and he would move out so you could have the house to yourselves. Good luck.

Post # 7
62 posts
Worker bee

I’d say a pretty convincing point would be to tell your fiance that you’d be much more comfortable walking around the house in slinky pjs if his brother wasn’t there.  :]

Post # 8
71 posts
Worker bee
  • Wedding: December 2009

My only advice would be just put all his crap out on the lawn and have HIM figure it out.

Post # 9
2292 posts
Buzzing bee
  • Wedding: July 2008

Haha – I’m with winterprincess.  Seriously – your Fiance certainly needs to pay back his brother, one way or the other.  But unless there is some legal agreement on paper saying that he will pay him back by letting him live there, any court would agree that a cash payback plan would be reasonable.  I would figure out how much money you and Fiance and afford to pay Future Brother-In-Law each month on the debt Fiance owes, and then write out a letter explaining that repayment, and specifying the date you need him out of the house.  If he has no lease or other paperwork legally allowing him occupancy of the house, the legal owner (your FI) can kick him out and change the locks anytime, but to keep peace in the family he should be given adequate notice that on such-and-such a date he will no longer have access to the house.

You need to decide, in order to seriously talk about this with your Fiance, whether or not this is a deal-breaker for you.  In other words, if your Fiance somehow isn’t willing to do what it takes to get Future Brother-In-Law out of his house, even if it causes some hard feelings in his family, are you willing to move back out and tell him the actual marriage needs to be postponed indefinately until he gets this issue solved?  I would say that the answer is probably yes – if you know that this situation is going to cause the two of you to argue and be unhappy as long as it goes on.  It seems as if your Fiance doesn’t really want to take a hard line with his brother, so even though that sort of ultimatum shouldn’t be given lightly, maybe it is required.

Darling Husband and I actually had a similar discussion before we moved in together, as he has two kids (18 and 20).  The 18-yr old went off to college this year, but the 20-yr old is going to community college and frankly doesn’t have much ambition or idea of what she wants to do.  I told him that before we moved in together and got married, we needed agreement on how long it was acceptable for the kids to live at home and be supported by us.  I love his kids, but I have no intention of supporting them past the point where they should have a degree and a job, just because it’s easier for them to hang out at home – and both of us have more than a little fear that it will be an issue with the 20-yr old. 

If he had some idea that it was okay for the kids to live at home until they were 30, would I have called off the wedding?  Absolutely.  As you are finding, when you marry you get the whole package – including the family.  If he is going to be inclined to choose his family over you, even knowing how much this means to you, then I don’t believe he is really ready to marry you.  After all, you’re not asking for anything unreasonable.

It may help to get some counseling, if the two of you have problems talking about this without getting upset.  Your pastor will probably do this for free, if you have a church.  It may also be worthwhile to find an arbitrator, or even to consult an attorney, about the best way to legally deal with the issue of getting his brother out of the house – such that if the brother decides to take him to court it is apparent that he’s not just trying to get away with not paying back the money.  Good luck – this is a really hard situation.  But I think it will actually be good for your relationship to solve this together, and hopefully it will bring you closer together.

Post # 10
10 posts
  • Wedding: October 2018

You guys should probably sell the place and find a new place to keep the peace.  There’s no easy way to not get into family politics on this one. 

 It sounds like the brother is on title if your fiance offered to give him $20k b/c you wouldn’t have to do that otherwise. 

 Pick a place closer to your work and use that as the excuse. 

Post # 14
699 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: June 2009

Why are the parents so deeply involved? Is there some reason you and Fiance are “working” through the parents on this situation? Why does everyone seem to feel they cannot talk to the brother about this and have to do everything behind his back?

Not to be mean, but is there something wrong with the brother? Does he not get that he will have to be gone by the wedding day?

Post # 15
16 posts
  • Wedding: September 2009

Ok, how can I say this nicely??? Your Fiance needs to throw his brother out.  I am sure that his parents will take him in.  If for whatever reason, his brother is on the deed, sell the house, give him his money and move somewhere else WITHOUT him.  What is up with that family? In my opinion, your Fiance has to make a decision about which is more important to him and you should have a very serious talk with him about that.  That is just ridiculous and ordering porn in someone else’s house – what a huge loser!

Post # 16
39 posts
  • Wedding: March 2008

Ok so let me get this straight.  Your fiance borrowed 13k from either his parents or his brother (still cant figure out who), and as you mentioned above your fiance agreed last year to just deduct the money for rent from the money the brother owes since he had stopped paying rent, and as you say you guys couldnt pay him back the money right now because of the wedding.  

SO based on that agreement dont you see a problem with the fact that you still owe him right around 6 or 7k and dont plan to pay him back now to get him to move out and no longer want him in the house?  You are essentially saying "Get out sorry you loaned us 13k but for your money you will only get 6k’s worth of the money back."

  It doesnt matter if he was paying half the bills or not in the time he was living there if you set the rent at X but it doesnt cover your costs that is no one’s fault but your own or in this case your fiance’s for not properly taking into account the costs you would have.  It would be like me moving into an apartment, signing a lease for 2 years (in this case a verbal agreement) and then the landlord coming back 3 months later and saying "hey I decided to kick you out because I didnt price the apartment high enough in the first place."   To me that is a problem and guess what a judge will say the same thing.  Yes there may be nothing on paper but oral contracts or the appearnce of an oral contract are binding (ie when your finance started taking money off the debt in lieu of actual rent payments he tactly agreed to the arrangement).  So again it doesnt matter how angry you are or how you feel about it at the end of the day you still owe him 6 or 7k so either pony up the cash or stop complaining cause he has every LEGAL (maybe not moral) right to be there. 

 Again it may be a jerky thing to do but people are sometimes in fact just jerks and clearly he has already demonstrated that he is by his prior actions.  As for your fiance not being willing to take this on, my guess is he is just trying to salvage his relationship with his brother and his parents so again take my advice from my prior post and have a calm talk with him to find out why he hasnt been willing to do anything up this point.

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