(Closed) Good christian + pre marital sex = impossible?

posted 7 years ago in Christian
Post # 17
Member
11377 posts
Sugar Beekeeper
  • Wedding: December 2010

My thought on this is a sin is a sin. No one on this Earth is perfect nor do they never sin. Your Christian friend sins, too, in the eyes of the Lord. No one can judge our sins but God.

Post # 18
Member
103 posts
Blushing bee
  • Wedding: October 2013

I agree with all the bees responses. I didn’t wait until marriage I do realize it’s a sin but I think it’s a personal choice that you make. I think ideally you should wait but the people who do wait now a days (especially since people are getitng married at older ages) are very slim.

Post # 19
Member
1161 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: June 2013

I see it like this: Marriage is a covenant. My personal relationship with God now allows me to see the reasoning behind why certain things are considered “sin.” Premarital sex obviously happens but I see why He said it shouldn’t. It bonds you in a way that can’t really be duplicated through other forms, so why would He want you to share that with someone who you haven’t entered into the covenant of marriage with? In the Old Testament it was explained as a way to basically seal the marriage vows.

Also I think a lot of heartache, diseases, and also abortions could be prevented if more people looked at sex the way God does. I guess you could look at it like fire. Fire can provide warmth, cook food, and provide atmosphere WHEN CONTAINED. If it’s misused it can cause damage, pain, and even death…same thing with sex. Everyone has their own views and justifications of why it may or may not be okay, but I think sin is sin just like up is up and down is down. Nobody’s perfect here, just my two cents!

Post # 20
Member
2 posts
Wannabee

Although this does not directly apply to me because I haven’t had sex with my Fiance, I will tell you that I have had sex before with other men before I decided to completely turn my life over to God. I have been with my Fiance for six months and we have 4 months to go till the big night… I mean big day lol! I will tell you that it is possible to wait although it is one of the hardest things I have ever done. We have slipped into Oral sex for about 2 weeks but soon after we had a talk and agreed to refrain from even Oral sex. I do not think that we should alter or change or interpret the bible to fit how WE want to live, but God’s plans and promises are in the bible and they are they way they are because they work. God forgives you and moves on, he doesn’t look back and bring it up or point the finger. If you feel like you want to wwait then I encourage you to do so. Yes, it is a sin and there is no way around it. Whatever you choose is up to you and God gave us the free will to choose. We have chosen many things. We choose to follow God , we choose to encourage our fellow brothers and sisters to live according to God’s plan… not OUR plan. Our society is so focused on doing things OUR way and it is easy to get lost in the secular way of thinking, I am guilty of that. All that matters at the end of the day is that we remember the fact that God send Jesus down to die for our sins and that for me, is enough to supress my sexual desires and obey our Father who only wants the best for us. It teaches us to think about other people besides our own needs and wants. I would encourage you to journal about the issue and pray pray pray!

Post # 21
Member
8036 posts
Bumble Beekeeper
  • Wedding: December 2013

@abeautifulunion:  Your friend was judging you… which is not a good Christian thing to do. I’m not religious but I can’t stand when people judge me, especially when they claim to be good Christians.

I’m more spiritual than religious, and I think that you have to do what’s best for you, and if you’re not hurting anyone then who cares. I think the church would say otherwise, however.

Post # 22
Member
11500 posts
Sugar Beekeeper
  • Wedding: May 2009

It’s SO true that none — not a single one — of us is perfect, except for Jesus.  The Bible makes that very clear.  Any of us who thinks he or she is perfect would be guilty of pride, or lying, or both.

God created sex, and He views it as a gift. However, as the author, creator, and designer of each of us, as well as sex, HE alone is the one who gets to makes the rules governing who is able to partake of that gift, and under what conditions.  We, as His children, do not have the right to make that determination for ourselves.  When we do, we are simply playing out the scene in the Garden of Eden all over again.

What did the serpent say to Eve? “Hath God really  said … ?” The serpent used logic and reasoning to try to  convince Eve to believe that God really did not mean what He said  and, moreover, to appeal to her sense of reasonableness, fairness and justice by telling her that God knew that if she ate the fruit, she would become like a god. And he made a very compelling case

So, Eve took the bait, bit the apple, enticed her husband to do the same, and the rest, as they say, is history.

God’s Word tells us that all scripture is God-breathed and useful for instruction and teaching. Although, because of the New Covenant that is ours through Christ, there are portions of the Old Covenant that no longer apply to us (for example, we no longer have to refrain from eating certain foods or wearing certain types of fabrics) there is no question whatsoever that God prohibits sex outside of a marriage covenant. His Word makes this abundantly clear a number of times throughout the New Testament.

A prior poster noted that she does not fear God and that she does not think God would want us to fear Him.  However, what does Scripture tell us regarding this? It says that “Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.” 

She is quite correct that God does not want us to have a spirit of fear in our lives (in fact He commands us not to have that type of fear.) However, He does tell us that we are to fear HIM, to have a reverential fear of Him and His holiness.

God commands us to be Holy  as He  is holy.  This is impossible in our own strength and power.  We need the power of the  Holy Spirit  to accomplish this. Also, Scripture tells us that we need to die daily to our own desires and longings that are not consistent with God’s will and plan for our lives. 

When we want to hate someone who has hurt us, God commands us to love that person.  When we want to hold unforgiveness in our hearts toward others, God commands us to forgive.  When we’re tempted to tell a little fib, because telling the truth would make things uncomfortable for us or cost us something dear, God commands us not to lie. When we are tempted to keep too much change when someone erroneously gives it to us, since money may be tight and we’d like to rationalize that maybe God is blessing us, God’s Word tells us not to steal. And, when we’re tempted to justify, rationalize, and popularize the concept of pre-marital sex in any  way, and for any  reason, we are simply choosing to believe lies from the pit of hell  that God didn’t mean what He said, that His rules do not apply to us because (fill in the blank with our own, personal justification of our choice here: ________________), and we are rebelling against what God commanded. There is no  way around this truth.

What we  think, apart from the Word of God is not  important.  Our opinions do not matter. If we are going to call ourselves Christ followers, then we must follow Christ and not ourselves, regardless of how difficult that may be, regardless of the cost.

Very tragically, human beings living in a fallen world tend to forget that we are made in the image of God.  Instead, we look to our own desires, our own wants, our own thoughts and reasoning, and, when we see a disparity between what we want, and what God’s Word says, we tend to want to solve it by re-writing what God said.  We want to make Him fit into our image, instead of the other way around.

It’s been happening since man and woman first walked the earth, and it continues to this day.

Yes, God gives each of us free will to make our own choices.  We have that right. What we do not  have the right to do, is to try to rewrite His Word fit our decisions.

Post # 23
Member
2 posts
Wannabee
  • Wedding: December 2009

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@Brielle:  You really hit the nail on the head!!!  I have read just about all of the posts. Yours and about one other person’s post actually makes sense, Biblically that is. It’s all about God’s desires, NOT ours. This is what people fail to realize. As soon as you get the mindset of “I feel” or “I think” or “I know it’s a sin, BUT”, you have already made God’s word of no effect to you. This is not just with premarital sex, this is with sin period. But the topic at hand is premarital sex… And you are right. God created sex, and the Bible says in Genesis that everything that God created was good, even very good. And He created it for husband and wife. Not for boyfriend and girlfriend, boyfriend and boyfriend, girlfriend and girlfriend, or fiancee and fiancee. And it’s so sad when people say “don’t judge me” or “you CAN’T judge me, only God can”, but God has said in His word, that we can judge, but it must be righteous judgement.  Of course we all sin, but it all boils down to what God looks at, YOUR HEART. Your intentions, your thoughts, your motives for doing things. We are not to let sin REIGN over us. We cannot let sin be dominant in our lives. Sin separates us from God. But THANKFULLY, we have the priveledge of being reconciled to God through His Son who died on the cross for us.  And people, do you honestly think that Christ died on the cross for us to continue doing the things that we want to do? Fulfilling fleshly lusts and desires?? For heaven’s sake NO! We must Believe in Christ and His word (John 8:24) repent of those sins (Luke 13:3,5), be willing to confess that we believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, that he died and rose from the grave the third day and has ascended to the right hand of the Father and that He is coming back one day for His people (Matthew 10:32) and also be willing to be Baptized (Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38) so we can have those sins washed away by His blood which cleanses us. Jesus will then add you to His church, His special body of people who recognize Him as the Head of all things on earth and in Heaven, and those who submit themselves to Him in ALL things. Then we will walk in newness of life as a new creature in Christ and remain faithful to Him until death so that we may receive that crown of life (Revelation 2:10)  So, if you are engaging in sexual activity outside of marriage, I urge you, I exhort you to please turn away from it, because you CAN wait. Look to the cross, look to Jesus, Obey Him. Let God’s word sink into your heart that your actions may manifest your belief in it. May God bless you all!!!  Smile

Post # 24
Member
2544 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: April 2018

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@Brielle:  Thank you so very much for sharing this. I was getting so frustrated by some of the responses I was reading until I came to this one. You’ve spoken very boldly and truthfully, and I feel like that can be so hard to do on an issue like this where so many of us want to conform the scriptures to suit ourselves, instead of the other way around.

I’d like to add that as a Christian, having sex before marriage is not the end of the world. It’s so difficult to wait and I think that more of us ‘mess up’ than we are willing to admit. But the beautiful thing is that there is forgiveness in Christ and that he wipes away all of our sins. All of them.

I truly believe that there is healing in God and that even if you have had premarital sex, God can and will heal you and make you pure again for your wedding night, if only we ask him for forgiveness and repent.

Post # 25
Member
2857 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: July 2013

I respect what people believe and will always fight for their right to believe in it. That being said, I’m also free to disagree. The Bible was written in a very different time with different values and societal constructs. It is illogical to me that God would want me to continue living my life based on rules that don’t take into account science and civil rights among other things. I also don’t understand the picking and choosing that goes on with the rules. As someone else pointed out, premarital sex is bad but shellfish is ok? Tattoos? How is it that divorced individuals can get re-married in some churches but not others? Oh and why is polygamy bad when the Bible doesn’t seem to see a problem with it? I’ve also wondered over the years that with so many different English versions alone, what has happened with the translation and interpretation of the words through the centuries.

I’m saying/asking all of this not in a snarky or condescending tone but instead with true interest and a desire to understand. Again, I firmly believe in God and that Jesus died for our sins, and it just makes me angry to see the rules used to make otherwise good people feel shame and unworthiness. 

Post # 26
Member
278 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: July 2013

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@Galang_Gyal: I unfortunately had a sexual partner (other than my FI) and even after over 2-years he will pop into my head, or I’ll remember a night we spent together, or whatever. This man – who I knew only 6 months, will forever be in my head. And every time he pops up – I hate myself. 

Maybe some woman have an easier time forgetting but since he was my first, I don’t think he’ll ever fully leave my thoughts and it kills me.

I personally think God’s command, had I followed it, would have saved me from this ๐Ÿ™

Post # 27
Member
11500 posts
Sugar Beekeeper
  • Wedding: May 2009

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@HisMoon:  You have asked some really good, logical questions, and you’ve asked them in a very respectful manner.  I, for one, appreciate that very much.

I cannot speak for certain with regard to anyone else on this thread, but I know that I was not trying to make  anyone else feel shame or unworthiness, and I suspect that none of the others who commented in opposition to pre-marital sex is trying to do that either.  Shame is not something that we want to put  on others. 

However, shame is the natural result  of our having done something we know to be wrong.  Just as God created us to react to something too hot by recoiling from it, shame is something that God designed to cause us to recoil from an action or attitude that could cause harm to us or others, physically, emotionally, or spiritually.  The Bible tells us that, after Adam and Eve tasted the forbidden fruit, their eyes were opened, and they knew that they were naked, and they felt ashamed.

Unworthiness is also something that we naturally should feel when we compare our own sinful nature with the holiness and perfection of God. We are not  worthy of what He did for us through His sacrificial death on a cross and bodily resurrection to atone for our  sins. We are not  worthy of His love. However, the amazing, wonderful news of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is that we are made  worthy through our faith in and acceptance of Him! ๐Ÿ™‚ 

In regard to your reference to science, it’s important for us to keep in mind that, although humanity  may not have been aware of many scientific facts at the time the Bible was written, God absolutely was, and, because men of God wrote the Bible under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, there is nothing in the Word of God that would be contrary  to scientific facts.  There may be portions of scripture that appear  to be in conflict with scientific theories  that many people have accepted as facts.  However, that does not make those theories true.  Regardless of how intelligent human beings are or how much “progress” we make in any field — scientific or otherwise — we only know what we know.  We do not know or even understand what God knows.  We are interpreting things in nature and in science through our own eyes and understanding. The Bible tells us clearly that “now we know in part.”  However, we do not know in full. 

Regarding the matter of civil rights, we need to keep in mind that civil rights are “rights” that society has determined that it will bestow upon itself.  That does not  mean that they necessarily  also are rights that God has granted to us. 

As for polygamy, it was not God’s design. He created Eve — one wife — for Adam.  It was due to their own selfish desires that men began to take multiple wives and concubines, but that does not mean it was God’s intended design. Likewise, in the New Testament, Jesus tells us that Moses permitted divorce due to the hardness of men’s hearts.  However, Jesus’ standard was much  higher.  He said that, if anyone divorces his wife for any reason except unfaithfulness and marries someone else, he is committing adultery. And the apostle Paul in New Testament Scripture adds that, if an unbelieving spouse leaves a believing spouse, the believer is no longer bound to that marriage.  However, the believer is instructed not  to be the one to leave the marriage. 

Because of these Scriptures, some churches allow divorce and remarriage based on these specific Biblical exceptions only. Others provide the opportunity for annulment under these and other circumstances. Some churches interpret these Scriptures differently and do not permit divorce and remarriage under any circumstances.  Finally, some churches do not seem to have any concern at all for these Scriptures.  However, it’s clear that not all of these beliefs possibly can be correct, since many are mutually exclusive.

Finally, I would like to note that certain Old Testament laws no longer apply to us under the New Covenant that Christ died to make possible for us.  Christ did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it.  For example, many of the rules and laws that applied to the Levitical priests had to do with their temporary role as intermediaries between God and His people.  They would no longer apply, because the completed work of Christ removed those barriers, allowing us to interact directly with God, whereas before, human priests were required to carryout these functions. It’s vital to note that these changes resulted from the work of God through Christ, not  as the result of people deciding it was time to make a change. If God was the one who initiated the rules and the covenant and the conditions, then God alone has the right to alter them.

Likewise, certain detailed dietary restrictions were placed upon the Israelites.  They were considered to be law.  However, in the New Testament, God gave the apostle Peter a vision and commanded him to “get up, kill, and eat” foods that previously were considered to be unclean and forbidden. Again this change was initiated by God, not human beings.

I would like to attempt to address your question regarding the reliabilty of Biblical translation over time.  However, I would like to do some research into this before I make any specific comments regarding this matter.

Post # 28
Member
1161 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: June 2013

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@jessmicas:  I’ve heard a lot of people say the same thing. They call it “soul ties” because they say when you have sex with someone you exchange something intangible with them that sorta kinda ties you to that person even after the relationship is over. 

Post # 29
Member
11500 posts
Sugar Beekeeper
  • Wedding: May 2009

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@jessmicas:  You are a very wise young woman. What you’ve said is true:  Following God’s rules would have spared you some pain and grief that He never intended for you to experience.

However, it’s also very important to remember that God does not  want you to hate yourself over past sin. If you have repented and asked Him for forgiveness, He has forgiven you, and you need to forgive yourself as well.

The Holy Spirit absolutely does convict  us of sin so that we will turn from it and follow Jesus. However, He does not ever condemn us.  God loves us!  As Scripture says, if He is for us, who can be against us? ๐Ÿ™‚

Satan, on the other hand, certainly has quite  the business operation going on, doesn’t he? First, he tempts us to sin.  When we fall for his lies and commit whatever sin he tempts us to commit, he either 1) convinces us that we did nothing wrong (and, if we listen long enough, our consciences can become seared) OR, 2) if we recognize our sin as sin and feel Godly remorse, Satan then accuses us to ourselves and other people and heaps condemnation on us.  Either way, he is the Father of Lies and is not to be believed.

Post # 30
Member
2 posts
Wannabee
  • Wedding: December 2009

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@Brielle:  You again made some really good points. However; there are a few things that I don’t agree with about what the Bible teaches… 1. Christ did come to earth to fulfill the law, which meant to put it to an end. We are no longer under the law. We are under grace and truth, which came through Jesus Christ. We do not live under the Old Testament. We are to live by the New Testament if we want to be saved. The Old Testament was written for our learning. And the law was a schoolmaster to lead the children of Israel to Christ. 2. About the marriage subject, Yes it states that if your spouse commits fornication against you, then you have the right to remarry. And if your spouse enters a marriage/sexual relationship with another person, he/she will be in adultery. As far as Paul writing in 1Corinthians 7 about the believer and the unbeliever,…. It’s not saying that the if the unbeliever departs from the marriage that the believer has the right to remarry, but the believer is not under bondage to that spouse, because the spouse is not in the Lord. God has called us to peace with Him. So that person will be at peace with God if the unbeliever departs and doesn’t want to submit to God. But other than that. I would love to talk with you more on God’s word. It’s the most important thing that we have today. Please e-mail me at [email protected]. ๐Ÿ™‚

Post # 31
Member
2857 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: July 2013

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@Brielle:  Thank you for taking my questions/comments in the spirit in which they were intended. I didn’t mean to suggest anyone here was shaming anyone else, and for that I apologize. The comment was meant about relgious society as a whole. Part of my point, too, is that we shouldn’t feel ashamed about something that does not harm anyone physically or emotionally but instead enriches a relationship. As to being harmed spiritually, part of me just naturally recoils from the idea that God would disapprove of a person for sharing love. I’m not talking about lust. I mean sex between a loving, committed couple.

As for civil rights, two topics were in my mind when I wrote the comment. The Bible has been used in the past to justify heinous acts including slavery and institutionalized racism (i.e. separate water fountains). How can we ever really be sure that we aren’t interpreting the Bible to fit our own agendas even if they are for good? Also, when the books were first written, society looked at women as property. Fathers could sell their daughters, and virgins brought a higher price. Non-virgins either brought low prices or couldn’t be sold at all. If a woman sold as a virgin was found not to be a virgin after all, there were stiff legal ramifications for the seller. A man wishing to marry a woman paid a price to the family, and virginity was a huge selling point. People also married way younger, so singles sexuality wasn’t as big a problem as today. Rape was considered okay as long as the man pays the equivalent of a virgin dowry to the woman’s family.

As part of some (admittedly light) research, some sources say the Greek word “poernia” has been wrongly translated to be “fornication” when in fact it actually means “sexual immorality” and includes acts like sex during menstruation, adultery by a wife (again because it was a property issue), and pederasty….but not premarital sex.

I’d also like to point out that God did not write the Bible but man did as the interpretation of God’s Word. For me, that leads to all sorts of issues because I don’t trust Man to always get it right. I do not like the fact that there were far many more books written than included in the Bible as we know it. Back then, transparency was not only missing from the religious world but actively avoided. Everyone who played a part in putting together the Bible had their own axe to grind. I remember a while back during research for a similar discussion, I found some sites that pointed to some pope in the earlier centuries who wrote such negative treatises about sex. According to historians, he had never been married and was practically phobic about sex. I’m kicking myself for not printing out this source, but it was a big part of why the Catholic church moved towards celibacy for priests.

This is such an interesting topic, and I’m tickled that people can discuss it here without devolving into namecalling or spite. It’s just amazing to me how intimately faith and religion touch our lives. At least for the believers. 

(Edited me to be)

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