(Closed) Gun control due to terrorism

posted 4 months ago in The Lounge
Post # 46
Member
680 posts
Busy bee

missviolet92 :  I live in the US, and I would not surrender my weapons. If someone broke into my home, and threatened to kill my family or me, the police could not get to me fast enough. I am trained to use my gun, and it’s responsibly locked away. Even when a law-abiding society is disarmed, criminals will still be armed. I love in CA, near the Mexico border, where guns are brought over the border and sold illegally to criminals all the time. There was a woman killed in a city next to me the other day. Two transients broke into her home and stabbed her to death. Those transients didn’t use guns. They could have pulled off the same crime with kitchen knives. If she were armed, she may have stood a chance. 

Post # 47
Member
1136 posts
Bumble bee

kiram :  But it does, since the UK reformed their gun laws we’ve had no mass shootings, it’s extremely difficult to buy a gun in the UK, a lot more difficult than buying drugs, which is why terrorists here use cars or bombs. All evidence shows if you reduce the number of guns then the homicide rate drops, and that if you increase the number of guns the homicide rate increases. No one is saying remove guns and all violent crime will end, we’re saying if you reform gun laws the murder rate will go down and it will be safer. That’s not naive that’s a fact.  

Post # 48
Member
312 posts
Helper bee

kiram :   Seriously? And where would he have gotten a bomb? Do you know how hard that is? Knives and fire are a poor substitute for guns. He can say what he wants but he chose guns because they are the easiest and quickest way to do as much damage as possible. It’s that simple.

Post # 49
Member
6360 posts
Bee Keeper
  • Wedding: June 2015

missviolet92 :  I’ll answer, but I will not be returning to this thread for anyone’s response. I already know how bees feel about the conservative point of view. There is no possibility of real debate anymore regarding anything political. 

1) we were given certain rights in our constitution. Once you think it’s okay to get rid of one, none are safe any longer. Semi-auto weapons are essentially everything. that’s  it, nothing left in guns, you’ve killed the second amendment.  We already see people trying to chip away at freedom of speech, especially in other countries. That should scare you too, but it doesn’t because… it doesn’t affect you directly (see what I did there?)

2) People who live in cities DO NOT understand the lives of people who live in the country, but try to guide it constantly, swearing they know so much better than us ignorant hicks. We see it over and over and over again. When a rabid skunk walks into my yard, what exactly am I supposed to do? Throw a knife at it? Well heavens, if I were in England I couldn’t even do that!  Because once the guns were gone, another method was used to cause problems and now that method has been banned as well. Plus it would be idiotic in the situation I described. And don’t think animal control would be any help way out here. 

3) like it or not, I do have the right to protect my property: from meth heads, from that random guy who moved into a tent on another creepy guy’s property… I don’t even know his name to see if he’s got problems, from the bear that apparently marked its territory on my garage, from mountain lions, from any home invader.

4) fun fact: mass shootings are far less frequent than the media would have you believe.  They are horrible, don’t get me wrong. Absolutely reprehensible. But isn’t gang violence too? Cities have far more restrictive gun bans. It doesn’t help. No one wants to hear this but BAD PEOPLE DON’T OBEY LAWS!!

5) USA has gun buybacks all the time they are very popular, they just aren’t mandatory.  My dad, a responsible gun owner, has participated in them.

6) mental health is often the real issue here. There are disorders we are pretending are fine because of social issues, but they are often paired with anxiety and depression or worse psychological problems as well. In an attempt to avoid stigma and abuse, we are allowing people to run around in the real world with no sense of reality when they really need to be institutionalized (I’d love to see some great places built, like their own functional towns). Granted this can’t catch everything, I think the NZ shooter came off as plenty sane, if a lunatic anyway, but it’s a start. The guy who shot two kids locally here was already on the FBI watch list – they dropped the ball.  We need to stop pretending guns are the problem and realize it’s people. Why are people deciding this behavior is okay? Why does the news , in essence, make them immortal? Why does society look at their pictures and read their manifestos and keep them at the top so the next guy decides later he’ll go out with a bang too? Fix the mental health system and leave the guns alone.

7)last, which you will all really hate … My governor has made it abundantly clear that she cares more about non-citizens of this country than she does about her own state citizens. In my opinion she has no business being a governor since she doesn’t care about her own people that she was elected to support. In one of the poorest states in the country, she has decided we will be a sanctuary state for other people when we can’t even take care of ourselves. I despise her for that. I am so proud to belong in a county that has marked it self a sanctuary county for the second amendment (most of the state has done this). If nothing else it proves a point – once you have decided you are not going to obey one law, the rest of us can choose to stop obeying laws too.  Welcome to the Wild West. 

Just to make it clear, even though no one will believe me, I am not a xenophobe. I am happy to have people come across legally. What I am not OK with is someone deciding that even though her own citizens are struggling, it’s OK to bring in the even more, against federal law, and hopefully use them to increase the voter base (CA already accepts unsigned ballots). It’s disgusting. Sorry, side rant just to ensure everyone fully hates me here. 

Even if you don’t agree with anything I said, good on you for reading it through. Remember, I know better than to come back, so don’t waste your time replying to my book. 

Post # 50
Member
9573 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper
  • Wedding: City, State

I’m not against guns per say, but I do think we need to evaluate what we’re currently doing because it isn’t working. I might even own a gun if I wasn’t more afraid of my kid finding it and hurting herself or me shooting myself on accident. But the first time I held one I immediately dropped it on accident so for safety’s sake, it’s better to just give me a baseball bat or something. 

I grew up in southern gun culture. Most of it is based out of fear, these people have guns (and I mean gunS) because they fear everything around them. I’ve heard countless times that friends and family need guns because of the “government”. There is a lot of fear that “the government” like some storybook boogie man is going to show up on their doorsteps one day and do something horrible. I haven’t figured out what the horrible thing is, I’m just told we need to stockpile guns for when it happens so that we can fight back. 

The second part of this is that these people think “Well, *I* would never shoot innocent people or kill someone over XYZ so why should they take my gun?? They shouldn’t take guns from good law abiding citizens who have them for protection! After all, what if a bad guy comes somewhere that I am and starts shooting? If I have guns then I can shoot the bad guy and save everyone else!” Never mind the fact that in a life or death mass shooting situation a large portion of these people (I won’t say all, because there have been cases where good guys with guns HAVE stopped bad guys with guns) are not trained to handle a disaster situation outside of what they learn to get their gun license. 

This person is a perfect example of that thinking. Not all gun owners are this way, this is just my experience with friends and family who own guns. Savvy.machelle :  

Post # 51
Member
7286 posts
Busy Beekeeper

For all the constitutional scholars on here go take a look at 18 and 21 and tell me we can’t use new amendments to undo earlier ones. The second amendment is not gospel and needs to stop being treated as such. The constitution is a living document and needs to change with the times. 

Post # 52
Member
4987 posts
Honey bee
  • Wedding: July 2018

I honestly can’t even deal with this discussion.  Talking to the vast majority of pro gun Americans is like trying to talk to flat earthers, they don’t operate with logic and no amount of facts will help. Their guns are shoved too far down their ears to hear you. 

ETA. Honestly can you imagine actually being around the sort of person in real life who claims they “NEED” a gun in case they need to overthrow the government?! It is hilarious really. 

Post # 53
Member
7401 posts
Busy Beekeeper
  • Wedding: October 2014

L-O-fucking-L at  “a skunk might come into my yard” as justification for opposing any measure of gun control.

 

LilliV :  PREACH.

 

 

Post # 54
Member
2767 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: July 2011

I dont think anyone has an issue with a farmer having a gun or even with someone in a very rural location having one. But to protect against a wild animal a shot gun is enough. You don’t need handguns, automatic weapons, several of each etc. Gun control doesn’t mean no guns, it just means restricting access and type. 

In the uk a farmer can have a shot gun, they just need to jump through a few hoops to get and keep it. skunktastic :  

Post # 55
Member
4924 posts
Honey bee
  • Wedding: October 2017

Alex Jones has freedom of speech, but he’s not free from the consequences of the garbage that he spews. I don’t believe freedom of speech is under attack in this country. People confuse freedom of speech as freedom from consequences. That’s not the case. You can say whatever you want, but you face consequences for it such as losing your job or being sued for libel 

Post # 56
Member
844 posts
Busy bee

I live in the US. I own a gun and have a concealed carry permit. Honestly, I wouldn’t feel as safe without it. I don’t carry outside my home, but I could if I felt the need. 

My gun is a handgun. It’s for personal defense and protection only. I take it to the range to practice so I’m proficient with it. The rest of the time, it’s in a fingerprint-activated lockbox that can be opened by my SO or me, no one else.

My boyfriend hunts and owns a couple of rifles. He keeps them unloaded and locked away when he’s not using them. 

So, I’m obviously in favor of private citizens being able to own guns responsibly (fully in favor of required licensing and background checks). However, I draw the line at semi-automatic weapons. There is absolutely no reason to own one. I don’t care how fun they are to shoot at the range. They should be banned so they can’t get into the hands of people like the nutjobs that commit mass shootings. You don’t need a semi-automatic for personal protection or for hunting, period. If your only reason for having one is because you enjoy shooting it and think you should have it because it’s your right, you’re putting your own enjoyment and stubbornness above the lives of others. That’s shitty. 

Post # 57
Member
6670 posts
Bee Keeper
  • Wedding: April 2016

I know this is a very serious thread but I saw this the other day in regards to this situation and think it’s appropriate:

Image result for new zealand thoughts and prayers

The gun laws in the US are utterly ridiculous. There are so many loop holes it’s insanity. And whenever there’s a mass shooting, the pro-gun people cry that it’s actually a mental health issue…and yet refuse to put any more tax dollars into fixing that problem either! 

I don’t want to take everyone’s guns away (but yes, I’ve been accussed of that simply for voting democrat), but I do think our gun control laws need a severe overhaul. 

Post # 58
Member
280 posts
Helper bee

Who needs laws when you have thoughts and prayers?

Sorry, I’m just bitter about the whole thing. I live not only in the US but also in the South, where a lot of people consider firearm recreation (hunting, clay shooting, plinking) a way of life. I have owned guns and feel comfortable around them, but my perspective on them has changed so much over the past decade as we’ve experienced so many horrific mass shootings as a country. I resent my neighbors for being so stubborn and unwilling to think about public safety in a big picture way. They need their pew-pews to feel like men.

There’s a movie called Rampage (not the one from last year with The Rock) that depicts a (fictional) shopping center shooting in horrific detail and I think it should be required viewing for all gun nuts. They should watch it with their children in their laps and then have to explain to their kids why they support a basically unregulated gun market knowing that it causes horror scenes just like that. I saw it 8 years ago and I still get nauseated when I go in a shopping mall.

I have so much respect for Ardern and wish we had a real leader in our country.

Post # 59
Member
2632 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: November 2017

Savvy.machelle :  word to the wise, don’t bother,  it’s pointless. Open dialogue is not accepted. Individuals that dare post dissenting opinions typically only end up being personally insulted or name called…

OP, glad this particular issue is working out for you in your country of NZ I hope the womens rights issues regarding abortion you have there (abortion listed as a crime!, requiring women to lie, multiple doctors having to agree. Making women jump through hoops to get one etc) are resolved for the women in your country  soon too.    Best wishes. 

Post # 60
Member
9000 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper

Westwood :  Well let’s actually do the math. Your figure of 393m guns is for every single gun in the USA. Gun reform is not about removing every gun from the public. It is about removing guns that have no reasonable excuse to be in the hands of the public.

The 650k of guns handed back during the amnesty were only the guns that were deemed as having no reasonable excuse for being in the hands of the public. There are still guns in Australia. I personally know at least 45 people who own guns. 

Things are also more expensive here in Australia. So the reasonable buyback price of a gun in the USA is also going to be considerably lower. 

Now according to your census depts population clock the USA has a population of 328,603,438 people so even at your ridiculously inflated gun numbers and not factoring the reduced cost of guns in the us vs Aus, it would cost each american citizen $5.50 to buy back 393m guns. $5.50. I repeat $5.50. Now of course not everyone will be able to pay that so let’s round it up to $10 per person to cover those (like the homeless) that could not pay.

So please let’s be real are the lives of the kids that died at Sandy Hook worth $10?  What about the people who died on the Las Vegas Strip? Are their lives worth $10?

 

The topic ‘Gun control due to terrorism’ is closed to new replies.

Find Amazing Vendors