Post # 91
Apple_Blossom : No I’m not hailing HSAs as the be-all-end-all case-closed answer… in fact I would love if people were offering other solutions (aside from a complete government takeover). BUT HSAs do solve some of the underlying problems with typical health insurance as I described.
Yes, I do think there is more incentive for a young person to contribute to their own HSA than pay into a system where they don’t know where there money is going or what it is covering. For the many employees that receive an employer-provided benefit of healthcare, most of the money that would have gone towards their premium goes straight into their HSA.
How do they fund treatment with money they don’t have? Take out loans? What if they can’t do that? Die?
Oh dear, I can think of solutions for that other than death… I hope you can, too. The subsidies that under Obamacare were going to insurance companies in the hopes that they would help provide better covereage and more affordability to the people that need it most– that is, people with preexisting conditions, a young person with a sudden, serious, or costly illness, and those who struggle to afford their medical bills — what if those subsidies went instead straight into the HSA of those people who demonstrate need? One very viable option IMO. (The details of implementation aside for now….) I’m sure there are other solutions that make sense.
Post # 92
Americans don’t have the financial skillset or savings acumen to save into their 401(k)’s, and 401(k)’s are now under attack from the GOP (gotta pay for those Trumpy tax cuts somehow… might as well be by slashing the tax benefits of middle class retirement plans). A healthcare system based on HSA’s would be socioeconomic suicide for our country.
I don’t really understand the vocal resistence to health insurance subsidies or (god forbid) socialized health care. nations like Chile and Colombia are doing a better job of providing access to health care than the US is. More power to them, but honestly there is no reason they should be leading us, other than the politics and bullshit that keeps getting thrown around.
Post # 93
tiffanybruiser : I wouldn’t even give jackiebee the time of day to respond. Someone who communicates and expresses themselves by statements such as “lying bitches” (that she later changed to lying bees) clearly lacks class, maturity level and any communication skills.
Post # 94
solnishko1186 : Yeah you’re right. I think she also clearly does not understand what out of pocket max means. Like if I had to choose between paying $80 for birth control every month w/ a reasonable OOP, and $5 for BC each month with a $12k OOP, I would definitely choose the $80 birth control because, while that is still ridiculously high and should not be a thing, at least there is no risk that I’m going to be out $12k that year!
Post # 95
tiffanybruiser : Yeah $80 BC with 3k OOP would be soooo much better than $5 BC with 12k OOP. Would chose that coverage any day
Post # 96
tiffanybruiser : So I agree that a $12k out of pocket max is insane, and you have a $2k deductible for each your husband and yourself. Do you have coinsurance that kicks in after the deductible is met? (Like 80% covered by insurance and you pay 20%.) I’m trying to grasp just how large your bill would have to be before you hit that max.
Post # 97
Apple_Blossom : Yeah, we do have coinsurance thank god (we pay 20% after the deductible).
I am not sure if we’ll hit the OOP max this year or not, but we will definitely take a big hit (already have). As I mentioned, my husband had to spend the night in the hospital recently and the biggest chunk of that bill is $19k. Naturally, that is the one claim for his stay that our health insurance provider denied, so we’re in the appeals process with them now. But beyond that we’ve already gotten a few thousand dollars worth of other bills from that hospital stay for tests, emergency room stuff, ambulance ride, etc., with more bills trickling in every week it seems. So I will be curious to see what the grand total turns out to be and if it brings us to our OOP.
ETA: to clarify, we have a $12k family OOP, but individually we each have a $6k OOP. I am pretty confident we’lll easily meet the $6k for my husband…hopefully I won’t have any unexpected health issues this year so that will be it for us.
Post # 98
tiffanybruiser : Yeah, you’ll get his half! So if an individual out of pocket max is $6k with a $2k deductible, you have $4k to cover between the deductible and max out of pocket. Assuming that’s only from paying coinsurance (which is a false assumption, cause your copay and prescriptions go towards it), with a coinsurance rate of 80% them 20% you, his bills would need to be and additional $20k past the deductible (or $22k if you add back in the deductible).
At that point, you will have paid $6000 plus whatever your premiums are (you said $300/month, I think? So $3600, grand total $9600- but note that this covers you as well) and insurance will have paid $16k (the $22k subtract the $6k).
I’m not sure if that helps at all, but basically the $16k the insurance paid would be the equivalent of a bit over 4 years of your combined premiums- and realistically, the insurance would have covered more than that once all the final bills go through.
And to stretch it further, for you to max out yours would be essentially double- premium for the year at $3600, $12k total out of packet for a grand total of $15.6k, with insurance covering $32k+.
Once again, not sure if that helps at all, but it helped me to work through the numbers when I was going through my own health problems.
Anyways, I hope your insurance starts behaving like they’re supposed to and actually gives you the coverage!
Post # 99
Disgusting. The best way to reduce abortions is to provide BIRTH CONTROL. It’s all about controlling women. Employers should not have a say in which procedures and medications their employees opt for, as long as it’s legal and doctor approved. Will we get employers saying their employee health plans won’t approve of blood transfusions for next? Companies should not be able to opt out of legally approved procedures and medications.
My employer will continue to cover I’m positive but this reminds me I need to call my OB to get approved for an IUD. I was put on BCP at 13 for medical reasons and I typically paid $5-$10 if I remember correctly. But it should be free because it’s the best way to reduce unwanted pregnancies and abortions and minimal cost. $5/mo is too much for the most vulnerable women.
You must have a lot of privilege if you think HSAs are a good answer. Most americans don’t even have $1k in the bank, do you think they’re going to be lining their HSAs with $$ for healthcare?!!? FFS
Post # 100
We all pay taxes. We all pay for shit that we don’t agree with. Therefor I do not understand the religion argument.
Post # 101
“I don’t like that the government is involved in any way with healthcare…If a Catholic company doesn’t want to have an insurance plan that covers birth control, then they can sign up for those insurance companies that don’t offer it…Health insurance for the patient should only involve the insurance company and the patient. No one else needs to be making decisions for them.”
In my opinion, this misses two critical elements:
1) Right now most American’s insurnace choices are made by their employer and their insurnace company, not the individual and the insurnace company. Personally, I see this as much more problematic than having the government involved. I think if anything, we should all be working to change the incentives so that employers are no longer involved in the healthcare decisions of Americans. That would, for one, solve this religious freedom issue.
2) Your comment pre-supposes that health care acts like a normal good within a freemarket when it is not a normal good. Health care is a very unique good and demand for health care is dictated mostly by health status, not by normal supply and demand forces. In my opinion, these types of abnormal goods are the ones that need more government intervention (not less) in order to function well. Lack of regulation in this market creates gives too much power to the supplier (the insurance company). We saw this pre-ACA when many people just flat out could not get the coverage they needed outside of an employer plan.
Post # 102
xdanielle : As Horseradish : points out, Americans as a whole are very tight on money and “bad” at saving for the future. Money that’s “saved” from switching from a low deductible plan to a high deductible plan with an HSA isn’t automatically added to the HSA- the person has to choose to invest that money. An employer could make contributions to the HSA, but most of the cases I see today are based on matching contributions.
I think it would be awesome to have an HSA as a supplementary account- it’s tax free going in, making earnings, and coming out for health expenses. But it’s certainly impractical under current conditions (you need a high deductible health plan to even get one) and those who are already struggling won’t be able to put much in.
And to be frank, the reason why I personally would want an HSA is as essentially an extra retirement account- it’s pretty much an IRA, with the benefit of health distributions being tax free. I’m just not willing to sacrifice my current low deductible and out of pocket and hope I don’t get sick.
Post # 103
solnishko1186 : I dont’ think the outrage is over co-pays, I think it’s because plans will no longer be required to cover birth control. While many plans will still include birth control, some won’t and I, personally, thinks that’s a really negative move for society as a whole.
I think it’s also concerning that this continues to give corporations rights to religious freedom, which doesn’t seem right to me in broad application.
Post # 104
feedthebeags : Exactly, with a separation of church and state the STATE can’t tell the CHURCH what to do
Funny, I didn’t know profitting businesses now counted as Churches!!
Thats kind of the whole fucking problem *face palm*
Post # 105
tiffanybruiser : Do you really want the government in charge of your health care? The government has done so well butting into things – Obamacare is a disaster, Medicare and Social Security are both going broke and how long do you stand in line to renew your auto plates? Do you want to stand in line for healthcare when they start rationing what services you can have? If you are overweight or smoke – no surgery for you!
If you think I am kidding about that last item, that was just started in UK recently. Look at the poor sick child in the UK this summer that was denied essential health services and allowed to die.
Single payer = no choice.