How Doctors Fail Women Who Don’t Want Children

posted 10 months ago in No Kids
Post # 226
Member
3901 posts
Honey bee
  • Wedding: November 1999

happyjuju :  The majority of people on here are not anti doctor AT. ALL. Actually far from it…

Sometimes you need to call a spade a spade. Obviously some huge glaring problems exist in the dialogue between patients and Medical care givers regarding the issue sterilization. The majority of this problem exists because no actual framework exists for medical professionals to navigate this issue with their patients. This leads to a disjointed level of care for people and Doctors and a sense of frustration for those who know what they want, have weighed up their options in this regard and have ended up basically being told by a stranger that they know their mind better. Caution in a situation  like this is good but flat out refusal until an arbitrary age or situation can actually be harmful for the mental wellbeing of an individual. We’ve moved past treating just symptoms in the medical field. We know a more holistic approach to care actually provides better health outcomes.

 I’d also like to point out that the horse you are backing has actually made gross errors with interpreting statistics and medical studies. They have also  more shockingly failed in their understanding as to what is involved in certain routine medical procedures. The bees take objection to incompetency and that should not be read as ANTI Doctor…

Post # 227
Member
910 posts
Busy bee

cmsgirl :  Its not failing to understand routine medical procedures, it’s reading comprehension, something many of you are failing really badly at right now. You choose to ignore the majority of a post and focus on a word or a sentence that is explained in the post. I want to face palm so badly right now. 

I’m with juju now, this is ridiculous and not one person is using logic anymore, only insults. This is starting to get downright idiotic and laughable. My brain can only handle so much, afterall i am a fake internet “doctor” who knows nothing 😂🤣 

I’m headed to work now, where I will do my best not to kill anyone with my lack of medical knowledge 😂

Post # 228
Member
3901 posts
Honey bee
  • Wedding: November 1999

macpartyoftwo :  wait what!!??

Your hospital chooses to fly against all medical convention and redefine medical terminology and procedures that are universal around the country and the rest of the english speaking world!!!??

All I can say is I feel very sorry for any new surgeon at your hospital who is not aware of this hospital quirk and accidentally performs the wrong procedure… 😱😱

#TotallyNotBuyingIt 

Post # 229
Hostess
12243 posts
Sugar Beekeeper
  • Wedding: June 2015

macpartyoftwo :  

Why is it that you are holding me accountable for what others have said about you being a doctor, but not holding yourself accountable for what you claimed about a study that proved 40% of women regret sterilization? 

You won’t admit you used an online sample of a survey from a biased website that exists to stop sterilization. Which means that is a site you read, which is a bias you did not disclose in this discussion — instead you used your medical degree to add authority to your (false)  claims- which is why people are bringing up your medical degree. 

I personally am not anti-doctor, either, but I am anti- using a professional degree to give weight to a false and damaging claim. 

I wish you well, but this thread has not been a shining moment for you. I hope you realize the responsibility you bear when you claim authority on a subject.

Post # 230
Member
910 posts
Busy bee

BalletParker :  Thank God I never claimed authoriy on the subject in ANY manner then! Quite the opposite actually. Again, reading what I write would benefit you here! I told you that I have gone on to find numerous percentages, but that those percentages did not sway me. I never once said that mine was the right one, not for a moment, because I’m well aware of my limitation in this subject, as I’ve stated. Ive said time and time again that I am not an expert, you guys made it out to be that, but I certainly did not. Ive repeated myself over and over, yet you bring up such an inane argument over and over. 

cmsgirl :  I believe we live in different countries. Not that it matters because it’s not up to you to “buy” or not. Ive never even heard it called anything different until now, but hey, you know best!

 

Post # 231
Member
3901 posts
Honey bee
  • Wedding: November 1999

macpartyoftwo :  We do live in different countries but any journal of medicine from Canada, North America, The UK etc still uses the same terminology in regards to hysterectomy procedures. First you claimed it was a  specific hospital thing now you are claiming you’ve never heard of it being different and  are using the you are from a different country card… So which ‘truth’ is it?

Every post you add on to this thread just digs a deeper hole… For your sake just walk away and go look after your patients. 

Post # 232
Member
910 posts
Busy bee

cmsgirl :  You can’t just make stuff up when you don’t have an argument. That’s not how it works. YOU brought up countries, I responded. We have always used the term, that is a fact, an IRRELEVANT fact.  I also never stated that total hysterectomies do always take both ovaries, so I’m not sure where you’re getting that from. I said that a woman who has had a hysterectomy of the uterus only is still at risk for early menopause, along the way someone stopped reading and just made it up as they went. But please, keep putting words in my mouth as you see fit.

 

I’m beyond done with this. You guys feel free to keep making stuff up as you go, as I’m sure you will. I’m done arguing with brick walls who refuse to take a moment and read, but would rather focus on things I literally never even said. 

Please feel free to go back to the RELEVANT topic at hand that nobody cares enough to talk about. 

Cheers,

Post # 233
Member
396 posts
Helper bee

impatient1 : But if a doctor is willing to preform vasectomies, willing to preform hysterectomies on women with 3 children, and not willing to preform hysterectomies on women with no children, then I’m going to call them an asshole just as much as I’m going to call the cashier who tells a random customer they should have children an asshole. 

So, how do you feel about doctors who perform abortions but only within the first trimester, when legally they can perform it beyond that cutoff mark – because there are a lot of clinics that only offer chemical abortions but not V&C? Are they assholes because they have a personal cut-off point for when they’re comfortable performing the surgery? Doctors are allowed to make their own judgment calls on what they want to perform and what they don’t want to perform. You have the right to make decisions about your health, yes. But they have the right to decline to perform procedures that they disagree with. A plastic surgeon who has done 2 breast implants on the same patient may decline to do the 3rd because they realize this isn’t a plastic surgery issue but body dismorphia for example. It is then in the patient’s right to disagree with this doctor and find one who’s willing to perform the surgery they want. But that’s why these surgeries are called “elective”, in the sense that not every doctor is going to find it a necessity and therefore not every doctor will perform it.

As for the poster with the aortic dissection risk, if your tests were beyond the range acceptable then it’s not “elective” in the strict sense, it becomes “necessary/recommended surgery”…which is also separate from being “emergency surgery” which is what happens when someone comes in with an aortic dissection. Necessary prevents, emergency saves, elective is not-required for medical reasons at that point. They’re not all one and the same thing either.

And as a woman, yes I believe women should have the right to determine their reproductive health, all of it. It’s just another facet of health which IS a basic human right. As a medical student? I’m still not convinced that I should one day be forced to perform an irreversible non-lifesaving (in the purest sense of the phrase) elective surgery…patients get to choose but so should doctors. And again, vesectomies are easier to reverse, and we all know someone who has changed their mind about kids, male or female.

Post # 234
Member
653 posts
Busy bee

littlemissdimsum :  I have no idea where you are from, but my doctors at the Cleveland Clinic referred to it as elective surgery and so did the doctors in my family. Yes, it was also recommended/medically necessary to get–this doesn’t change it from having been an elective procedure.

My point is that the term elective surgery isn’t only relegated to things like cosmetic surgery, which is true.

i.e. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elective_surgery

http://kidshealth.org/en/parents/elective.html

https://www.nicklauschildrens.org/medical-services/pediatric-surgery/educational-materials/preparing-for-elective-surgery

http://www.health.wa.gov.au/electivesurgery/docs/Elective_Surgery_Patient_Information_ENGLISH.pdf

Post # 235
Member
14659 posts
Honey Beekeeper
  • Wedding: June 2011

 Late to the game but….

I agree.  If a women wants to be sterilized, then she should be allowed to do so without fight back from the doctor.  It’s NOT up to the doctor to decide if you might or might not end up regretting it.  That is up to the woman deciding.  She may end up regretting it, but sorry, she made the inform decision to proceed and she will have to be the one that ends up living with and having to deal with her choice.  It’s not up to a doctor to decide that for her.

 

Post # 236
Member
40 posts
Newbee
  • Wedding: November 2017

Just wanna throw it out there that the frontal lobe (rational/planning part of the brain) isn’t fully developed until age 25/26.. wonder if thats a factor in the “27” thing. NOT taking sides here just a thought to add to the conversation.. would make the age consideration less “arbitrary” 

Post # 237
Member
3901 posts
Honey bee
  • Wedding: November 1999

macpartyoftwo :   ….You can’t just make stuff up when you don’t have an argument. That’s not how it works….

 

Yes exactly! That is exactly what everyone has been trying to tell you in regards to the statistics you pulled to substantiate your argument. If you don’t cite where your  stats came from it is assumed it is made up. Not only do you have to cite it you also have to assess whether it comes from a legitimate source that does not contain overt bias.  

 

Post # 239
Member
367 posts
Helper bee

I’m just going to say that I live in Canada and three different doctors refused to perform a tubal ligation on because I was “too young” and I didn’t have children. I was 29.

A social worker at a healthy sexuality clinic belittled my reasons for being childfree. My family doctor tried to talk me into having kids and used my age as a reason that I couldn’t possibly know what I wanted. He finally relented when he saw that I was getting annoyed with him. 

My husband had a vasectomy. We went to two different clinics. One of the urologists insisted on talking to ME because I was “only 29.” We knew where that discussion would go so we went to another clinic. The urologist did not question my husband and I. 

Articles like the one in the original post make me wish that I could contact all of those condescending idiots. I would relish being able to say “I’m 35 now. No regret about my husband’s vasectomy 6 years after you refused to treat me like a grown woman.” 

Post # 240
Member
1758 posts
Buzzing bee
  • Wedding: July 2016

Having a baby is completely life-altering. I would absolutely argue that it is more life-altering than deciding not to have kids. We allow girls as young as teenagers to have kids with no counseling or hoops to jump through. Lots of people won’t want to admit it, but I’m sure there’s a decent amount of women who give birth as teenagers who regret it. Why doesn’t anyone give a shit about that regret? 

It’s truly mind-boggling to me that women’s right to an abortion is severely restricted, but she also can’t decide for herself to remove the possibility of getting pregnant altogether. But, of course, it stems from the same concept…

I don’t believe this discussion can be effectively had without recoginzing our society’s bias against women and deeply held belief in many circles that procreation is a woman’s highest purpose in life. No wonder why then, when we get pregnant, people think it’s acceptable to touch a woman’s belly and give her unsolicited advice on pregnancy and parenting. Once a woman becomes pregnant a lot of people now see her body as a public asset, with her fetus often taking priority over her. To people who have those beliefs (and most probably don’t even recognize them), of course we wouldn’t want to “turn off” a woman’s reproductive system. That system is society’s asset, not hers! 

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