Husband going too far?

posted 2 years ago in Intimacy
Post # 76
Member
1246 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: August 2018

DaniGirl03 :  I think that’s fine, so long as your personal interests in BDSM doesn’t cloud your position that OP is perfectly within her right to say no, I don’t want a ball gag, anal, or any sexual encounter that makes her feel badly without needing to conduct extensive research and explain herself to her husband.  Her current state of not wanting to be entered in this way based on her personal experience with an insensitive husband in the bedroom is absolutely acceptable if that is where she stands.  

Post # 77
Member
10956 posts
Sugar Beekeeper
  • Wedding: City, State

kristin36890 :  

ITA.  The onus is not on the OP to make a research project out of her husband’s BDSM’s fantasies.  Her lack of comfort is enough.  Game over.  Attaining doctoral level expertise in the subject isn’t going to make OP’s comfort zone suddenly expand exponentially.

DaniGirl03 has already drafted a treatise on BDSM for beginners. Getting caught up in the minutiae of who puts what where is not the issue here.  

What the OP is grappling with is a husband who is pushing his sexual requirements on her, despite OP’s reluctance.  Further, he’s been on a steady trajectory of escalation.  He’s steamrolling her.

Irrespective of how sweet he may appear to be outside of this issue, he is not a sweet man or a good husband.  A good man cares deeply about his partner’s comfort and needs.

It’s not OP’s responsibility to learn to love BDSM.  She has an absolute right to her own sexuality.  Her husband has zero right to insist that she play along with his desires if she is not comfortable.  They may ultimately just be sexually incompatible.  It happens.

It would have been nice if he had revealed this side of himself before they got married it, apparently, he did a good job of not letting the mask slip on several issues.

If I were the OP, I would look beyond the sexual incompatibility to the bigger picture—what kind of character does this man have?

 

 

 

Post # 78
Member
1755 posts
Buzzing bee

kristin36890 :  Here’s unfortunately the problem OP has set herself up with. She says no, but doesn’t reinforce that no, so her husband has gotten into a pattern where he’s realized well she said no. But she seems to like it when we do this stuff and I talk her into it. Because they don’t actually set up and maintain firm boundaries. She’s put herself in the position that her no isn’t a no to her husband it’s an I need to try again and talk her into it. I should go get the stuff so we can try and I’ll bet she will change her mind. Each time she says no and then does it anyway she is reinforcing the pattern that her no isn’t a no, she just needs talking into it. I don’t think this is what OP has intended to do at all, but now this pattern is set. Her husband isn’t hearing no, because he doesn’t see it as a no. There are also women out there who use this method to figure out their boundaries and it’s a very prevalent theme in a lot of porn “I just need to talk her into it”. Yes she can just say no, but that may not be what her husband will accept as a no based on her behavior.  

If she wants to manage his expectations as she’s requested then she needs to prepare for that firm and clear boundaries discussion. If she wants to manage his expectations, then some of the guidelines that she will find researching BDSM are a great place to start.

A great place to start is some of the basic checklists, there may be things on there she doesn’t know enough about to say yes or no. This is when research helps. He does a list she does a list, and they can discuss what they do and don’t want. They can set a time line of when to readdress the list if she wants perhaps once a year. I believe that as we have different experiences our preferences and boundaries change. As they mature and grow sexually and romantically as a couple their boundaries and preferences will change and this allows them to manage those expectations. You have this conversation, out of the bedroom, sober and when your both relaxed and willing to communicate.

Another great place for the research is if they do the lists and see something that interests they can find out more both together and separately to make sure they’re both comfortable. Doing this she can make sure she isn’t put in a situation she isn’t comfortable with, she can also manage his expectations going forward of what she will and won’t do and when they will reassess what they want to explore so they can both feel comfortable.

I’m not in any way saying that her no is in fact a yes, it’s not at all, but that is not what her husband is hearing based on her behaviour, and that is what needs to be addressed. That her no and boundaries go up in a healthy, safe and productive manner through conversation so they can grow as a couple.

Post # 79
Member
1755 posts
Buzzing bee

sassy411 :  Sorry if I was misunderstood, I don’t in any way advocate for her enduring BDSM if that isn’t her preference. That can be incredibly traumatizing. I only meant the research for her as a way to have the knowledge to start the discussion about boundaries. The fact that I’m telling her to look into BDSM isn’t so she agrees to go along with what he wants and play nice for him at the cost of her own well-being.

It’s because at the very core of healthy BDSM relationship is a concise and clear discussion about consent and boundaries. And her understanding more about how to have that conversation with him about her boundaries can only benefit her. She doesn’t need to research so she can do what he wants, she does need to understand what he is pushing for so she can advocate for herself in her marriage, and if she wants to stay in the relationship guide the conversation to what she does and doesn’t want in the relationship to make it a productive conversation.

Post # 80
Member
1246 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: August 2018

DaniGirl03 :  No.  Non-verbal cues and answers that are not a loud and clear “NO!” (ex: hesitation, complaints, nervousness) does not mean yes. 

Post # 81
Member
1755 posts
Buzzing bee

bridetobe2018 :  It definitely doesn’t at all, I’m a firm believer that no is no, passed out drunk is no. High and not able to consent is no, a person can say no at any part during any sexual encounter and everything should immediately stop. 

What I was trying to explain is that OP’s husband doesn’t see her no as a no. He hears no, but understands that because her other no’s have meant we’ll see and talk me into it and I guess I’ll try since you bought the stuff. He isn’t accepting the no becuase to him it isn’t a no. It’s a similar logic we hear about with sexual assaults, well she said no, but she was ok once we were kissing. She said no, but then I gave her orgasms so that must mean yes, they’ve talked them into it. That pattern has happened because of their behaviour as a couple, she’s not asking for it, she’s set up the expectation with her husband for a pattern of behaviour and he is following his pattern of behaviour, of talking her into it.

She needs to change the conversation all together, or if all she can say is no, say it over and over and not stop until he understands. If the relationship is healthy outside of him pushing his sexual needs on her than they should be fine to have a conversation about boundaries. If he’s not accepting that repeated and clear no, then OP has much bigger problems, than a husband who likes kinky sex. 

Discussing wants and needs with sex doesn’t have to be about kinky sex in this case, it can be as simple as what positions you like or don’t like if there are new positions you’ve tried? How you feel about oral both giving and receiving? Are you comfortable with sex only in the bedroom or do you want to try other parts of the house? Do you want to engage in some of the cheesy games you can get from sex stores? It can be okay I like putting on costumes for you it’s fun but I don’t like the following costumes they make me uncomfortable.

He can also base his side of the discussion on what his fantasies are, what he wants their fantasy sex life to be. It doesn’t mean that she has to do them, it means they’re talking about them. She can decide if any of that is stuff she’s remotely willing to explore now or ever. If she doesn’t want to explore any of it, or he doesn’t want to limit himself to her preferences, then that’s a deal breaker and when you walk away.

Post # 82
Member
1110 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: September 2017

I feel like this discussion has gotten a bit sidetracked, but OP, I hope you’re not overwhelmed and come back with an update.

I would recommend sitting down with your husband and firmly explaining your boundaries. And stick to them. If you have trouble with this, I suggest counseling. If you can find a sex-positive therapist, so much the better, so that the focus is on how you and your husband communicate with and demonstrate respect for one another, not shaming either of you for your sexual preferences.

Post # 84
Member
331 posts
Helper bee

elainescott :  Glad you had the talk.   Though it seems it is not getting through to him what is fantasy and what is reality.  

Those full on BDSM or rough sex pornos the women are being paid to be degraded, they are not doing it for fun.  At the end of the day they are actresses and those videos have directors.  The whole face fucking is rough oral sex, where the guy holds the woman’s head and he thrusts into her mouth.  Then he cums on her face as if it is a trophy.   

Tell him what you want out of your sex life, like what you really want.   Explain to him these types of fantasies are completely degrading to you.  And if he wishes to do it then you have to degrade him too. 

If you are still having conflict may I suggest author Dr Gloria Brame.  She is a sex therapist who also does BDSM.   Perhaps you can get some advice from her.

Post # 85
Member
10956 posts
Sugar Beekeeper
  • Wedding: City, State

elainescott :  

Ugh.  I’m so sorry, Bee.  He says he understands and that you come first.

Then, whammo.  He guilts you:  look at all I’m giving up!

Yes, he’s giving up multiple opportunities to make his wife miserable.

His compromise?  You are to agree to a degrading and forceful sex act in which he will be the only one getting pleasure.

Bee, I’m concerned about you.  He is able to knock you off balance and have you thinking this is some kind of fair trade off.  The running theme through your posts is that you feel obligated to accommodate him far past your comfort zone.  That’s making it easy for him to gaslight you into thinking he’s making big sacrifices so you should be willing to degrade yourself like a porn star.

In your heart of hearts, do you really want to accommodate his demands?  Or do you really want a tamer sex life?  Thus far, it’s been all about what he wants and how much of it you can handle.  What do you want?

I have big problems with this guy.  Not because of his sexual proclivities—he’s entitled to those.  But, he, unless there’s something you haven’t shared, never bothered to let you know what you were in for until after he got you to marry him.

And his utter lack of sensitivity to your feelings is deeply concerning.  What is his overall capacity for empathy in other situations?

Maybe a sex therapist could be helpful.  But again, we’re acting as if BDSM is the issue and if you would just study up on it, you’d learn to love it.  That’s not the case, nor is it the core issue.

Sexual incompatibility issues often can be negotiated and worked around.  You’ve got a husband with character issues.  There is no fix for that.

Post # 86
Member
1826 posts
Buzzing bee

 

sassy411 :  Very well said.

elainescott :  I would kindly suggest some individual counseling if you can possibly manage it. This is not a healthy relationship at all.

Post # 87
Member
471 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: March 2017

I’m sorry but he sounds disgusting. He is making you feel guilty about the things he is “giving up”? OH the horror!!! And then rob say those words to you, face F, ugh. Seriously he doesn’t sound sweet at all. He sounds gross, manipulative and selfish. 

Post # 89
Member
1755 posts
Buzzing bee

elainescott :  hey bee, I’m so glad you came back and that you and your husband have opened a line of communication about both of your preferences, so you can reach a solution that works for you. 

In my opinion it sounds like your from a pretty conservative or religious background. Which is why I’m sure you don’t feel comfortable with a lot of the sexual exploration he is interested in. Sex shouldn’t make you feel demeaned at all.

Part of where that comes from for a lot of women is a sexual repression that they’re raised with, that anything beyond the norm for sex or sex for procreation is dirty or demeaning. And that is completely normal to feel that way. It doesn’t matter if he wants it, if it makes you uncomfortable.

Facefucking is basically a blow job where you do not have control. Your role is to keep your mouth open and he controls how much of his dick is in your mouth, how deep it is and how long it lasts, normally with his hands moving your head. It’s something that is very much about control over your partner. And it doesn’t sound like something your remotely comfortable with doing at all. As for cumming on your face, I’m blaming porn for this one. 

Your best option if you can afford it is a swx therapist. If you can’t this is what I would do, but please make the choice best for you. 

It seems like based on your comments he is still very firmly in the camp of I want to do more of this. I have several posts on this thread about this on this thread. He can want to explore this all he wants, but the very core of BDSM and where it seems his preferences are is consent and boundaries. 

Someone put a checklist up here a few pages back, that can   Be used for a starting point, you can also look online and find several checklists. You want one that goes through everything, sexual positions, oral, fantasy roles, BDSM everything. I would say take a couple days, find a checklist you feel comfortable doing. You each do them separately. Your answers are either a yes, no or maybe. Anything with a no or maybe for either of you is immediately off the table. Anything you both have a yes for is something you are both comfortable to progress with, but might need more discussion. Be completely and brutally honest on that checklist, if you’re not sure about something research it, so you know what it is. 

Have this conversation sober, away from the bedroom and when your both relaxed. 

The things that you both agree to on the list are things you discuss more and proceed with. The things that are no’s or maybes are off the table for now. They don’t come back on the table for if your preferences have changed until you set a fixed amount of time. This could be 3 months, 6 months a year. Whatever time length your comfortable with. 

Post # 90
Member
1755 posts
Buzzing bee

elainescott :   To continue:

Set up a safe word for sex, have two. These are inplace at all times when your having sex from now on. Level one or yellow level – this is making me uncomfortable for any reason, let’s slow down the pace we are doing this at. Sex doesn’t need to stop, but he may need to go lighter, be gentler, or adjust what your doing. 

Level two or red level – sex and any sex acts immediately stop. This is often used when you are scared. Or something has reached a point where you do not feel you can continue. There is no guilt with safe wording, you have zero to apologize for. After safewording, there should always be comfort and discussion about what part of it felt uncomfortable or scary or hurt you. 

He can want to explore As much as he wants, but first and foremost he needs to respect you and your boundaries and what you will and won’t do. 

After each time you explore something new, whether it’s a new position or something new sexually, have a discussion after about how you felt. What you liked, what you loved, what felt good, what didn’t feel good. This isn’t a sexual conversation, it’s so you can make sure your experience is continually improving and your both having the best experience you can. You talk first always with this, he can wait and needs to hear and understand what you said and then he can express himself. This isn’t bashing you time either for him, this is about him telling you what he liked, what he didn’t and how you both make it better next time. 

If he balks at any of this, he’s not respecting you or your boundaries. Exploring anything to do with sex is about trust. And in order to do any form of exploring with him ever you need to trust him. You need to trust that he’ll only do what your ok with, that he will stop if your uncomfortable. That he’ll respect and listen to your thoughts and opinions on sex. The only way you’ll get to some place that you feel comfortable exploring anything will be if you trust him. And even then you still have your boundaries he still has to respect them. You never do anything you don’t want to. He should also be learning more about what pleases you, what gets you to orgasm and what feels best for you. 

He can want to be a dominant in bed and have control like he’s either seen or read about. But dominants treat their partners well and follow all of the steps I’ve laid out here. That doesn’t mean your submissive, it means your an equal partner in a sexual relationship, that can love and trust your partner. 

If you ever want to talk more or need any help with building your boundaries and if you have questions. Please feel free to PM me. I’d be happy to give you my email as well if that’s easier for you. 

 

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