Husband going too far?

posted 2 years ago in Intimacy
Post # 91
Member
2264 posts
Buzzing bee
  • Wedding: October 2019 - Chateau Lake Louise

DaniGirl03 : While I understand you are making an earnest attempt to help and inform OP, I wanted to respond to something you said.

“In my opinion it sounds like your from a pretty conservative or religious background. Which is why I’m sure you don’t feel comfortable with a lot of the sexual exploration he is interested in.”

I think that’s a huge leap and frankly insulting to OPs autonomy. 

Virtually everything OP has cited as requests her Darling Husband is making that give her pause are related to humiliation/subjugation. She’s gone along with dressing up, role play, and even some minor bondage. I think implying that the OP isn’t enjoying herself just because she’s been conditioned by her background is deeply dismissive of her; it assumes she can’t have formed preferences of her own outside of some externally imposed value system.

“Part of where that comes from for a lot of women is a sexual repression that they’re raised with, that anything beyond the norm for sex or sex for procreation is dirty or demeaning.”

Except that the things at which she is bridling almost all have some element of pain, or objectification involved. He wants full anal, which if executed properly can be enjoyable, but just as often is portayed as punitive. He wants to fuck her face and then come on it, which, again – depersonalizes her into an oriface for him to use and then mark with the evidence of his dominance.

It it irrelevant that these things CAN be enjoyable to some. OP feels they are demeaning. She is made uncomfortable by the request and the implications behind them. This doesn’t means she’s responding that way because of her cultural training. To imply that seems reductionist, at best.

Forgive me, but you seem to be evangelizing for BDSM a bit. I understand feeling like the lifestyle is misunderstood – it absolutely is – and wanting to bring an informed and rational perspective to the discussion. Ultimately, though this may not be your intention, your posts read a bit like you are trying to suggest OP might enjoy it more if she just loosened up. Which is a much milder version of what her Darling Husband is doing.

elainescott : I’m sorry to hear this is the way your Darling Husband reacted to this converation. While I believe you when you say you feel he is a wonderful and supportive husband n other respects, I find his response to you on this suject very troubling. 

He is “saying” you come first (incidentally, do you? Does he actually see you have an orgasm, first thing? I’m genuinely curious) but he negates that claim by then going on to whinge about what he’s giving up? What he’s giving up is an opportunity to debase and humiliate you. He’s passing on the chance to coerce you into an activity you find physically and emotionally uncomfortable. He’s disappointed that he can’t just wheedle and push until you relent and do something you don’t want to.

This is such an exceptionally selfish load of bosh.

No one is actually entitled to live out every fantasy. Lots of people don’t even get to go as far as he already has. I think you’ve been incredibly GGG (Good, Giving, and Game) so far, and he has absolutely no right to lay on a guilt trip because you have now reached the outer limits of your boundaries.

If he was so emotionally invested in being able to play out these ideas, it was his responsibility to disclose his hopes and desires on the subject in such a way that you could decide as a couple if you shared a similar sexual value system. That he started to slowly reveal ONLY AFTER YOU WERE MARRIED that he had these proclivities was another way to undermine your ability to say no; now, you have a marriage to keep healthy! If you refuse you are being a bad wife! 

It all points to a rather unhealthy perspective toward sex on his part. Such a crucial part of a relationship needs buy in from both people. A set of expectations imposed by one partner as an obligation for the other partner to meet is both inappropriate, and likely to damage the marriage in the long run. 

That he responded to your appropriate desire to establish some boundaries by acting resentful – and then trying to sidestep them with an alternative form of physical/emotional degradation – suggests he doesn’t really understand his resposibility to you as his partner. It shows he is focused primarily on securing your capitulation to engage in acts you find unappealing so he can continue to enjoy a certain level of satisfaction, irrespective if you share that pleasure. Which is deeply problematic, and will almost certainly spread to other parts of your relationship.

So far, he’s gotten what he wants from you. It’s not hard to be supportive and kind when you are getting your way. In fact, the Dom indulging the sub for good behavior is an integral part of the ritual. How he may behave once you have begun to assert your right to refuse him certain things, remains to be seen.

Whatever the case, I agree that given his response, some professional intervention might be appropriate. He is either missing the point because he doesn’t have the proper information or perspective, or he is being willfully obtuse and simply hopes you’ll cave with enough pressure.

Either way, it would probably benefit the marriage to have a neutral party with sex therapy experience help guide you both to a place where you feel you each understand your desires. This will give you the best chance of having clarity about expectations and aspirations.

Most people understand knowing you have the same goals for the future is an important part of a happy marriage. I think fewer people realize sexual values is a part of that conversation as well. Having a trained professional help you both identify and communicate those values might be the most effective way to determine if they are really something you share. 

 

Post # 92
Member
1755 posts
Buzzing bee

teamroro :  sorry if it was read that way by you. I certainly don’t want OP, to feel that I’m affecting her autonomy or making a judgement about her preferences. The only place my concern came from was because, OPs husband seems to be struggling with her putting up barriers. I hoped giving her some steps which are proven effective to achieve what she wants will help. The only reason I went through the steps BDSM uses for boundaries is because they work. They will also make her husband feel like he has a sense of where things are and has clear expectations. 

I wish more women were taught that sex is good, that it’s about pleasure, that boundaries and saying no are good. That exploration can be good, in whatever way they want to explore. 

There seems to be this automatic thought and step that therapy is the ultimate cure and fix all for everything. It appears to me to be a very American point of view. But unfortunately therapy isn’t readily available to a lot of people, insurance may not cover it, they may not have insuranve  it’s also expensive. Therapy can be very useful if it’s available to you and the right fit, I wish it was much more readily and financially available than it is. 

I hope I’m not evangelizing BDSM, it’s not my intention and I genuinely apologize if that is how it came across. It was not what I meant to portray at all. 

I will say I do think that couples need to have a lot more discussions as a whole about their preferences, how things affect them, how they feel and what they want in a relationship, and often times people are poorly prepared to have those conversations because of ingrained thoughts and prejudices they’ve been raised with and taught are normal. I wish those conversations happened early in a relationship and were frequent and full of reassurances and caring and respect. I also get that that’s just not how our society works. 

Post # 93
Member
1842 posts
Buzzing bee

teamroro :  + 1 million.

Re: the part about “conservative or religious background”. I come from a very unconservative and unreligious background, and there is only one of the things OP mentioned her husband wants that I would do. The rest are extremely degrading, as is his attitude.

Post # 94
Member
6323 posts
Bee Keeper
  • Wedding: September 2016

DaniGirl03 :  I appreciated your posts. I think people focused on the bdsm but a lot of the information you shared is actually beneficial to ANYONE in an intimate relationship. Knowing (and understanding) your partner’s and your own desires and each of your boundaries seems like it would only be a positive addition to a partnership.

OP- a few pages back, there were posters who were stating that it shouldn’t be necessary for you to do any research to determine whether or not you want to do something your husband proposes. Your post when you returned is a great example of exactly why you need more information than you seem to have. Your conversation with your husband ended with him testing another of your boundaries (face fucking and coming on your face) and you were considering doing some of what he proposed before you were even entirely clear about what he was talking about (“it SEEMS to involve…”)! If this were a situation with someone else, that might not be as much of an issue but it’s been pretty well established that your husband is manipulative and coercive when it comes to sexual situations so you actually cannot trust what he proposes on the face of things. You need to know what he is talking about. All the time. Before you EVER agree to something. For your own safety and protection, you need you know what he is talking about and make sure you are both on the same page about what will and will not go down. And if he tries to push past an agreed upon boundary during sex- sex is OVER for the time being. He’s playing on your “nice girl” training (your desire to please and connect with someone you love, your desire to contribute to his happiness) which is the same thing sexual predators on the streets do, just as an aside.

Also- you don’t owe him anything. Him giving up playing with your body like a toy is not him giving up a RIGHT. It’s him respecting that your body is YOURS and YOU grant him access to it at YOUR pleasure. You can also deny him access in any way you choose and he doesn’t get to say or do anything about it. Your body is yours and if he can’t honor or respect that (without going for an alternate gimme) then you are better off without him. You do not ever need to appease him by letting him find some new way to test you and possibly degrade you. 

Also- you said you just want to have “normal” sex. What is considered normal is different for a lot of people so, again, the two of you need to have conversations about what that is for each of you.

I think therapy is an urgent need here, for both of you. It sounds so much like a predator/prey situation that it would be challenging to address it without professional intervention. At the very least, a therapist will be able to catch and point out his boundary testing and breaches when they’re happening rather than you having to comb back through every discussion to find the moment where his gotcha happened.

Post # 95
Member
707 posts
Busy bee

OP, I am really angry for you. How exactly is your husband giving up anything at all, when, if anything, it was he who changed the framework of your relationship! He sounds petulant, manipulative, passive aggressive and extremely immature- at least on this subject. That really was an absurd response on his part. He is no more giving up a lifestyle he never had than you are giving up a billionaire lifestyle (that you probably never had) by being in this relationship. 

Now I’m a bit of a deviant in that I fantasize about some of the things you mention, but I accept it’s not really my husband’s thing. I respect that and there’s plenty of happy common ground. I hope you’re able to get counseling. I’m sorry you’re going through this, and it seems like you are certainly going above and beyond. Hugs. 

 

 

 

 

Post # 96
Member
3004 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: November 2017

elainescott :  he’s a manipulative asshat.Tell him you want him to do you wearing a dress. When he refuses, tell him how sad you are that he is causing you to miss out on that experience..

DaniGirl03 :  no not misunderstood at all. You were judging/trying to claim that it must be because of religion or conservative values that she doesn’t want those things!   Then long windedly try to talk her into why she should go along with/like/try what he wants.  Why don’t you do you, and let her do her….

Post # 97
Member
1755 posts
Buzzing bee

mrstodd2bee :  I have already apologized. I obviously missed something when I wrote it. There is absolutely zero reason to pile on. I’m trying to constructively help OP. None of you have to like what I say. Obviously I didn’t convey what I was thinking properly. Sorry this is something I struggle with on occasion. I have zero intention of apologizing again. 

Post # 98
Member
1570 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: November 2017

elainescott :  I’ve read your updates and have to say that the stuff he is asking of you now is truly degrading. If you don’t feel good about the other stuff, I don’t see you feeling well about this at all. I don’t think he’s truly listening to you, and don’t appreciate the guilt trip about what he is “giving up.” He is your husband and gets to be intimate with you for Pete’s sake. 

Post # 99
Member
1016 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: August 1983

He didn’t level with you about his desires before you were married, which is dishonest. And it sounds like he’s watched an enormous amount of porn, all of it degrading to women. Very upsetting. But don’t do anything you’re uncomfortable with–you don’t owe him any of this stuff and he doesn’t get to use you. You’re not someone he’s hired under a clear agreement; you’re the love of his life. Or should be.

Post # 100
Member
12 posts
Newbee
  • Wedding: January 2018

Did you guys have any sort of talk about sex before you got married? Here’s what I think:

I believe you should never have to do ANYTHING you are uncomfortable with. Ever. No means no, 100% of the time. And you should never be with someone who pressures you into things you don’t want to do. 

I also believe that your husband should have the freedom to express himself sexually the way he’s asking you to. For some women, what your husband is asking isn’t far fetched. Some women love that kind of sex, and that’s okay as well. 

I definitely suggest therapy for both or both of you. I also REALLY agree with DaniGirl to do research before you say yes to anything to fully understand exactly what it is, so you aren’t being guilted or manipulated into something you really don’t want to do. But if neither work, it sounds like maybe this might be the wrong relationship for both of you two to be in. 

Again, I don’t agree with him pressuring you at all. But I also don’t agree with asking him to give up all of his sexual fantasies. There is absolutely a compromise, where both parties win and you feel safe and have the romantic life that you crave and he has the romantic life he craves, but unfortunately it doesn’t end the best for your life as a couple. 

 

Definitely suggest therapy. I’m so sorry you’re in this situation. 

Post # 101
Member
1842 posts
Buzzing bee
  • Wedding: July 2016

Oh goodness, this sounds like a situation. He is definitely trying to manipulate you, especially by asking you to do things that you aren’t even sure what they are. It’s really not okay. You are allowed to want a “vanilla” sex life.

Did you have sex before you got married? Did you talk about fantasies at all? Did he do these things with other women or is he just trying out his fantasies now because he thinks he has a “captive audience”? How old is he? How old are you? Does he try to talk you into things in other areas of your marriage? 

I think a big part of the problem is feeling like you “have to” give in and give him some of what’s he wants, even though you KNOW you won’t like it. You do not have to! And further, it is making the problem worse by making him think you’ll be willing to do anything with enough guilting. It’s not a good dynamic. I’m not sure what to suggest besides counseling and reading up on assertive communication. You do not need to make yourself “less than”. You are a person with legitimate needs and feelings. 

All that being said, I DO engage in a lot of the sex acts that have been mentioned. They aren’t degrading TO ME, but I recognize that they are to most people, and that’s fine. But my husband and I have always been open about our boundaries and fantasies and thankfully they’ve always lined up, or if they haven’t we’ve been considerate about not asking the other person to do those things. Anal is definitely on my “no” list too, and my husband never pushes me for it. 

Post # 102
Member
3437 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: June 2016

He’s trying to manipulate you into experimenting more in the bedroom, which is wrong for countless reasons. I find it incredibly unfortunate that he did not make his sexual desires known before the wedding. The issue is not that he’s into BDSM. The issue is that he failed to communicate about something major before the wedding, and is now trying to manipulate you into meeting his needs when you’re clearly not into it.

And yes, the things he’s asking you to do are degrading. That’s the point of a lot of BDSM play. If that doesn’t turn you on, you shouldn’t be doing it. I suggest you two seek out a therapist who specializes in sex issues in order to figure out the best plan moving forward.

My main takeaway from this is that I find it appalling that he would not let you in on something so important before the wedding. This entire problem is his fault for not discussing his kinks a long time ago. It makes me worried for how well he will manage to communicate in the future about other really important issues (because when one partner wants that sort of sex and the other doesn’t, it is a huge issue). 

Post # 104
Member
2404 posts
Buzzing bee
  • Wedding: October 2016

Honestly. I would not be having sex with my husband if he treated me in this manner. This level of coercion is so “rapey” to me that I would be completely skeeved out & probably would look to end the relationship if he didn’t get some perspective regarding my boundaries & the respect he owed me as his spouse. It’s not the acts that are the problem, it’s his attitude & disrespect of your autonomy that is super disturbing.

Post # 105
Member
2774 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: November 2013

DaniGirl03 :  I too appreciated all of your posts and agree with pretty much everything you said. If I could give you more than 1 ‘helpful’ I totally would. 

 

OP: you never, ever have to agree to something that turns you off just to let him think/feel/see that you’re bending/willing to please. Nope. Turn offs are turn offs. And like @DaniGirl03 explained, turn ons are also turn ons. What really turns your husband on turns you off. The sexual incompatibility is too high for a successful long term relationship. What turns anyone on/off is mostly involuntary so he cannot expect/want/force you to change and any and all of your efforts to change him (‘Oh, we’re having tamer sex now, we’re getting ‘better’) won’t really work. 

But the crux of the matter is that he does not respect your no. In my book that means he does not respect you as a person. That alone warrants divorce. 

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