(Closed) I am absolutely sick over Standing Rock anyone else?

posted 4 years ago in The Lounge
Post # 16
Member
1750 posts
Buzzing bee

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herrera2016 :  I’m an environmental consultant that specializes in the reclamation of oil and gas facilities and I fully support this pipeline. People that support it aren’t morally or ethically challenged people, some of us deal with the facts and science of projects like these on a daily basis so I think that’s an unfair comment.

 forgotusername :  Downstream facilitiles such as gas stations have very different infrastructure than upstream (wellsites, compressor stations, batteries etc.) and midstream (pipelines) facilities so you can’t really compare the two. A pipeline is not going to introduce the same amount of contamination as an underground storage tank in a more populated area is. 

Post # 17
Member
9541 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper
  • Wedding: August 2013

This is such a moving article written by a Sioux woman http://sacredstonecamp.org/blog/2017/2/4/to-save-the-water-we-must-break-the-cycle-of-colonial-trauma 

“This movement is not just about a pipeline.  We are not fighting for a reroute, or a better process in the white man’s courts.  We are fighting for our rights as the indigenous peoples of this land; we are fighting for our liberation, and the liberation of Unci Maka, Mother Earth.  We want every last oil and gas pipe removed from her body.  We want healing.  We want clean water.  We want to determine our own future.”

The US government has such an appalling history of human rights violations when it comes to the treatment of the First Nations and we are continuing our oppresion today. It is WRONG.

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lahela017 :  The fact that the pipeline doesn’t technically go onto Sioux land is irrelevant. In this country most states have passed laws banning smoking in public buildings because we understand that the smoke from one table will waft over to another table and can affect their health and wellbeing. Is it really that hard to comprehend that water and toxins flow across man-made “borders”?

Post # 18
Member
229 posts
Helper bee

No I am not upset.

I’ll leave it at that because that’s all you asked for! Not going to get into a debate on a wedding forum lolol

Post # 19
Member
5938 posts
Bee Keeper
  • Wedding: May 2014

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forgotusername :  That is very interesting information!

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herrera2016 :  I’ve always said sex and greed rule the world. People will destroy others (and lands and anything) to get either or both of these. It’s really bizarre.

Post # 20
Member
300 posts
Helper bee

I think that as a whole, we should be focusing on sustainable energy and moving away from fossil fuels.  This is a step in the complete wrong direction.  To the poster who commented “Wildlife adapt”, that is a very selfish, ill-informed, and frankly disgusting reply. Wildlife do not adapt, they die. When one species is disrupted, all others become disrupted as well.  Underpopulation of one species breeds overpopulation of another.  When wetlands become contaminated, water isn’t clean. What makes Earth a place that is conducive to human life? Water.  Do some reading on ecosystems and the delicate balance that man-made structures continue to disrupt. 

This is a bigger problem than one single pipeline, but the people who don’t have a problem with it and either choose to ignore it or are too selfish to think of anything more than their immediate needs truly break my heart.  

Post # 21
Member
7560 posts
Bumble Beekeeper
  • Wedding: October 2014

Massachusettes just introduced a bill that, if passed, would require the state to use 100% renewables by 2035 and a phaseout of fossil fuels in heating and transportation as of 2050. Las Vegas city (government) runs on all renewables (fair disclosure: some are in the form of SREC’s purchased from private solar arrays as an offset), and other cities and states are going this route.  We are in a worldwide glut of oil and there is a finite period in which we will even need oil.  That pipeline is a huge, expensive, environment-wrecking mess that will be obsolete within 30 years.  Huge waste of money and at way too high an environmental cost.

Post # 22
Member
2569 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: May 2017

I am disgusted with the state of affairs. 

Post # 23
Member
1482 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: August 2012

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herrera2016 :  I’m sick over it too, but for the opposite reason. I think the protesters, and the sympathetic press/Facebook coverage they’re receiving, represent evil and wrong! How can we make the changes which need to be made to protect the environment while people like this spread misinformation and hypocrisy? It’s a giant smoke screen diverting badly needed attention from actual causes of concern. 

I was all ready to jump in to support the protesters, until I looked into the situation more closely. You might want to do some more research on this topic. 

Post # 24
Member
11381 posts
Sugar Beekeeper
  • Wedding: June 2015

Well, it seems as if the trash stories have been taken out of context.

From snopes: 

http://www.snopes.com/2017/02/10/standing-rock-trash/

“Organizers told us much of the debris was left behind due to a forced evacuation of the protest camps amid a series of severe December 2016 blizzards, and subsequent sub-zero temperatures froze it to the ground, hindering cleanup.”

and

“Joye Braun, a front line community organizer with Indigenous Environmental Network and member of the Cheyenne River Sioux tribe, told us that demonstrators have been working in freezing temperatures to clean after two blizzards bore down on North Dakota. Just as thousands had arrived at protest encampments, many were forced to evacuate. The first storm struck on 5 December 2016 and the second came several days later. Since then, freezing temperatures have been an obstacle for cleaning efforts:

We had about 17,000 people here and then there was that big blizzard, then three or four days later, another big blizzard. So we had about 300 or 400 people left cleaning up stuff, some of which has been frozen to the ground… Everybody at camp is working so hard.”

 

 

 

Post # 26
Member
47439 posts
Honey Beekeeper
  • Wedding: November 1999

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herrera2016 :  You might be able to educate more people about your point of view, if you could manage to dialogue with them rather than call people who don’t agree with you, disgusting.

Post # 27
Member
1750 posts
Buzzing bee

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talula23 :  that’s totally unfair to say. I think you’ll find that very few people disagree with your comment that we need to move towards more sustainable energy. I’m totally with you. Unfortunately, the reality is that we currently don’t have the technology or the infrastructure to move completely away from oil and gas, not only for energy production, but tons of products that we all use daily are made from petroleum products. Seriously, check this list out-  http://www.ranken-energy.com/products%20from%20petroleum.htm

It’s pretty unbelievable, and it’s only a partial list (144 out of 6000 products!!). Until we can completely do away with oil and gas, we need to be able to extract it and transport it in the most responsible way possible. For the time being, the safest to humans (and wildlife) and the most environmentally friendly way is by pipeline. 

Post # 28
Member
9391 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper
  • Wedding: July 2016

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Horseradish :  hate to be a bother but can you link info to that bill?  I’m curious if it’s any better planned out than the Renewable Fuel Standard.

Post # 29
Member
6905 posts
Busy Beekeeper

I don’t care for the way the protest/reaction to the protest went down, I wish it had been handled better.  However I don’t give a crap about the pipeline itself, to be honest.  We rely on fossil fuels right now.  That is simply reality.  They have to travel in some way and via pipeline is a far better solution.  If you take it all by truck, or even train, what are you doing?  You’re using fossil fuels to move more fossil fuels in order to refill the tanks to go back for more.  It’s ludicrous and a lot less safe to have hundreds more fuel trucks on the road (anyone see the one that went off the road in Baltimore a month or so ago?).  

Additionally I live in a state that is riddled with gas (of various kinds) pipelines.  You can smell them as you walk by, some even being hydrogen sulfide (try breathing that for awhile). No one cares about us as long as we keep providing natural gas to the rest of the country, and while it may be selfish, why should I care about them either?  Also there is already a pipeline right next to where they want the new one – so what difference does it make?  

There is a lot of he said-she said between the tribe and the Corps regarding the pipeline as well – I’m literally looking into this now b/c I heard rumors that the tribe wanted to tax the oil going through the pipeline and I’m trying to see if that’s true or not.  What I am finding is they cancelled meetings, ignored contact over and over (on both sides – who even knows wha’s true now?).  I think the whole thing is a mess and with people so impassioned it’ll be hard to find out the truth of the matter at all.

The last issue I have is based on a gross generalization I am personally making with regard to the culturally significant lands.  Where I live there are native tribes.  Know what they (obviously not every single one!) do with their culturally significant land?  They make roads right on top of pottery and other artifacts (dirt ones, not just state created ones) or let it get trampled by cattle and sheep.  They throw their trash into the washes, which lead into larger ones, which feed their rivers and reservoirs.  They leave all their old vehicles and larger items all over their yards.  They graffiti and leave trash, even in the middle of nowhere. They quite honestly do not appear to care at all unless it is an extremely significant location such as a sacred homesite or something comes up to make them decide they are going to care temporarily.  Heck, they protest pipelines here too, occasionally, all the while getting their power from burning coal.  I have no idea if that is true for every tribe, as I said it’s a gross generalization, but if this land was so very important before, why did we only find out about it when someone else wanted to bury a pipeline on it?  Though artifacts are there, I truly believe it’s just an excuse.

Best solution, IMO:  sue for stringent regulations, more frequent safety inspections, water testing and repairs, etc. but let it exist.  Then start working toward cleaner power for everyone, everywhere.  Right now the fossil fuels are needed.  How about the tribe works on encouraging all the their (and other) children in the sciences, to work toward a cleaner future and eventual removal of the pipelines when they are no longer necessary?

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