(Closed) I feel disappointed with my engagement ringposted 9 years ago in Rings
- 8 years ago
- Wedding: September 2014
@Lily123: Approach him kindly, let him know how you feel and then see if you can work it out. Maybe you can offer to contribute some money so you have a ring you are happy to wear ’til death do you part.
I let my FH know what size I wanted my ring. I let him know many times in fact and explained why. I think it’s good to be upfront and honest – even if its after the fact. Pipe up, girly!
- 8 years ago
- Wedding: July 2009
@_gemma: I dont consider that beating her down but expressing my opinion just like y’all are doing. That we worry so much about the shoes we wear, the ring we have, the brand of our clothes is, in my opinion, sad.
If she does not want to hear unfavorable opinions, then she should not post in a public forum.
It is because of people thinking “you only live once… let’s buy a boat; you only live once, let’s buy a big rock; you only live once, let’s buy a house at the very top of our budget” that so many people are in such financial trouble (not the OP’s position, necessarily), just commenting on your “you only live once” comment. Her fiance only lives once too; he should not have to feel like crap because a ring he got his future wife is tucked away.
- 8 years ago
- Wedding: December 2014
@AngelR88: Agree to disagree. I believe there is no glory in misery. I also think a .5 or a 1 carat diamond is not in the same category as a boat or a house. Nor was implying that people should go into debt for anything.
Everyone is different, and everyone has different meanings in their life. To some people, like yourself, material possessions do not matter to you, but to some it does, and there isn’t a right or a wrong or a sad or a happy. It’s just different. There’s no need to call someone’s meaning in their life “sad.” I just find that, that creates unnecessary tension. But again, agree to disagree.
BUT, I think the issue lies further than just the ring. On both parts. To me, if I were a guy, and I bought the woman I loved a diamond ring that she disliked, I would feel horrible. I would want to do everything I could possibly do (in budget, of course) to please her. Or ask her kindly to wait, however long that would be, until I could financially afford it. But that’s how I am with my family/friends. And you’re right, her fiance shouldn’t be made to feel bad for not getting her a bigger diamond, but she shouldn’t be made to feel bad for not liking her ring. They’re both not winning here, and I think they really need to focus on why there’s this issue and what it’s really stemming from.
Again, there’s no glory in misery.
- 8 years ago
@gimelnus: Yes, actually, I have thought about what I wanted and why, and the reason I can be so specific about what I want in a ring is because I have given this plenty of thought. How about, instead of asking me a question and then following that up with repeated, superfluous rewordings of the same doubt and throwing in there suppositions of my own potential “ignorance,” you just let me answer and respect that my answer, while it might not be enough for you, is satisfactory for myself. I want the ring I want because I want an engagement ring when I get engaged. I don’t want guys hitting on me, period, and I think that a ring will help to deter that. I want this particular ring because of how sparkly and beautiful it is and when I look at it, I will know that my happiness will always be important to my partner. I’m certain you’ll still reply with lengthy condescension, but know that I have examined why I want this ring and it has nothing to do with other people, whatever your own beliefs or perspective may be. My desires are my own and I surely know them better than you do.
- 8 years ago
- Wedding: July 2009
@fauxfaux: My advice was to have NO expectations b/c then she would not have been dissapointed. If she wants to put her ring back in the box, good for her, but I am entitled to find the whole thing silly.
Regarding what I use my money for, I will just not explain that to you b/c I find it unnecessary and not the topic of conversation. But take any pre-conceived notions about a lawyer’s lifestyle out of the picture b/c where your mind is going is far from the reality I live.
Putting myself in her shoes is a bit difficult because i was NOT expecting a ring,and would not have been bothered if I did not get one. But, again, that’s not the topic of this conversation.
To clarify, I am not bothered by the fact that she wants a bigger ring (I would not have turned down a 1 ct had that been what I got). My problem is with the fact she feels deeply saddened by it, so much that she feels the need to put the ring back in its box to avoid the shame that displaying it in public somehow causes her.
Again, much like you are entitled to support her, I am entitled to find the whole thing ridiculous. If all one wants to hear is possitive feedback, talking to the mirror would be my advice. I am entitled to my opinion; you are entitled to yours.
And OP, I am glad you are wearing your ring again.
- 8 years ago
@AngelR88: Telling her to have no expectations after the fact is useless. If you’ll read through the entire thread, you’ll see the reason she put it back into the box is because of what it made her feel and the arguments that would occur when she looked at it, not necessarily out of shame concerning the size.
Regarding what you use your money for, you brought it into the conversation when you started judging other people not only for their ring preferences but also for their lifestyle preferences, and how they use their own money.
What I am encouraging is not blinding her to negative feedback but providing useful feedback. Whether positive or negative, I’m saying what she was asking for is something helpful, regardless of how favorable the reply.
- 8 years ago
- Wedding: July 2017
I certainly did not mean to be condescending, and I apologize if I came off that way. Like I said, I didn’t want to get into the deconstruction of your belief system, but let’s look at your fleshed out reasoning:
“…just let me answer and respect that my answer, while it might not be enough for you, is satisfactory for myself. I want the ring I want because I want an engagement ring when I get engaged. I don’t want guys hitting on me, period, and I think that a ring will help to deter that. I want this particular ring because of how sparkly and beautiful it is and when I look at it, I will know that my happiness will always be important to my partner.”
I think you’re missing the point of what I’m trying to impress upon you. For a moment, disregard your current explanations, reasons, explanations, rationalizations, whatever you want to call them. That’s not what I’m interested in, as you might have noted in my previous missive. So, I guess we’ll just break it down point by point so we can perhaps be on the same page.
“just let me answer and respect that my answer, while it might not be enough for you, is satisfactory for myself.”
It is not your answer that I am concerned with, and it is irrelevant whether or not it is “satisfactory” to me. What interests me are the factors, the elements behind your answer (as we shall call your general assertions from henceforth). It is not my goal to say, “hey, your viewpoint is wrong.” My genuine goal is to extract from you your opinion of some of the environmental experiences, stimuli, causal factors were present during the formulation of your “answer” – your belief system in general and with regard to specific matters, in this case your convictions regarding the engagement ring societal discource. A different way to say it might be to ask “what steps led to me believing x,y, or z.
Let’s use a simple, yet readily identifiable and common example. Many of us believe things when we are young that, upon growing older and gaining experience, we find that we no longer believe those things. Sometimes it’s religious. I grew up a Missionary Baptist – good old Fundamentalist Christian. We, and I – by virtue of that environmental eperience (prolonged, in this case), along with parental and peer pressure, and due to a significant lack of exposure to other notions of epistemology at the time – we believed we were the only true church and that, although other Baptists and most other Christians would go to heaven, we were the only ones that were the true church and had the exact right set of doctrines. Pretty extreme, huh? Fundamentalists are good at that sort of thing.
Well, it may relieve you to hear that I no longer hold that view. It’s amazing really, how terrified I was to even think of questioning that – that would be anathema, or some shit. Anywho, to (attempt to) make a long story a little less long, I graduated high school and (shhhh) went to Seminary. I began to notice that, even amongst Missionary Baptists, the beliefs/interpretations/perspectives held by other preachers/students/teachers were legion, for they were many.
It seems so incredibly naive to me when I look back on it now, but I was astonished that they could be so wrong, because, my preacher back home said this and that, and they weren’t saying this and that. I think they were saying Nee. Later, I found out that there were bunches of “strains” or “sects” within the extremely narrow ABA (American Baptist Association) which was comprised of “true” Missionary Baptist Churches. One-Cuppers, for example. Small church, but they were adamant about everyone using the same cup during the Lord’s Supper. Some were insistent that the King James Version of the Bible was the inspired word of God and any other translation was false doctrine. Again, you have to marvel at the Fundamentalists – they really do put on a good show. Ok, I know I’m digressing a bit, sorry about that. Point is, I started to experience some cognitive dissonance. A troubling thought suddenly hit me one day: “Man, I sure was lucky to be born a Missionary Baptist, because otherwise I’d be an evil Southern Baptist. Nah, surely I would come to understand somehow that the Missionary Baptists were the true peeps.” So, as we humans do, I held onto my core, foundational beliefs and found increasingly complex and labyrinthine ways to justify, defend, and explain my beliefs. We all did (at the Seminary). So this question festered, and during this time I was also engaged in many debates with Christians of varying denominations (Church of Christ, Pentecostal, and whoever else I could convince they were wrong, because that’s what I was supposed to do. You know what I learned from all that debating? For one, no matter who I debated doctrine/truth/whatever with, none of them budged, none of them could be convinced. More than that, they felt sorry for me that I believed what I did, and the feeling was mutual. I began to see that people of significantly disparate idealogies 1. Felt as strongly as I did that they were correct, and 2. (this happened during a lengthy, written debate that I still have in a huge folder – emails back and forth between me and this guy named Jerod. I believed in the Trinity, and he did not. He believed in the Oneness doctrine. We debated other things, but the Trinity was were most of our time was spent). Now, I considered (read, knew) myself to be quite well versed in the scripture, and the Trinity was was of those things that was obvious. I had all kinds of scripture. The debate went on and on, and every time I thought I made an undeniable argument, he would have a response. I specifically remember an email that he sent explaining further using certain passages (in context even), and I was like “oh shit.” For the first time, instead of automatically discounting his argument because it was contrary to my own and something that, if true, would force open an irreperable crack in the very foundation of what I believed, and hence, who I was. “Oh shit, shit, shit.” I didn’t say that. But I though the “pious” version of it, no doubt. I’d like to say that I just went ahead and adopted the viewpoint as tentatively superior to my own (and thus everyone I knew and loved), but there’s a defense mechanism for that in all of us that, without extreme circumstances that are incessantly perpetuated and all up in your face, kicks in and does a fight or flight thing. Perhaps both. Mine said “I gotta get the hell outta here.” I stopped debating with Jerod and became increasingly unsettled. Questions began popping in my head. “What if I had been born and raised another religion, or even in another country, continent, culture? What if I had been born into a Muslim environment? What would I believe today? A third of the world is Muslim, after all. And just as western Christians denounce their practices, beliefs, culture (usually with at best a cursory look at what the belief system(s) actually entail), so, I, as Muslim would denounce western ideologies, doctrines, holy books, just everything. I certainly wouldn’t consider converting to Christianity. It is quite reasonable to assume I would have been just as conditioned as I was as a Missionary Baptist. “Man, I sure am lucky I was born a Missionary Baptist.” Now that statement held a tone of desperation and perhaps even anger, and most certainly fear.
Why all the above prose? Because around that time, subtely, and slowly, when a doctrine arose in my thoughts, in discussion, in class, or in study, I began to ask myself, “now, why do I believe this is true.” It began with auxiliary beliefs, stuff that it was “ok” to have varied opinions on, even in our tight, scrict circle. Fortunately, my best friend went along this journey with me, and we sort of prided ourselves in this ostensible enlightenment. He managed to stay out of trouble, but was not well liked at the Seminary. I was writing for a periodical, and teaching Greek by the time i reached my third year. I wrote essays and articles that, while (I thought at the time) were insightful and penetrating, and most yummily of all, they were usually counterintuitive and lacking compassion or tact. I didn’t realize it at the time, but I developed quite a disdain for preachers who would just pick verses at random because they contained key words, then they would string them together in a topical sermon, whereas I would engage in expository teaching/preaching, having spent hours upon hours translating, paying special attention to the Greek and Hebrew (the languages the New and Old Testament were originally written in, many scholars say. New Testament might have been Aramaic, but F* that shit, that would have F*d up my Greek mastery. Well, I ended up getting in a lot of trouble for being controversial, and was asked to leave the Seminary by the president. I refused, and surprisingly, he backed down. I was starting to despise everything about the Seminary and the state of Christianity in general. All I cared about was textual criticism, correctly interpreting a document. That document just so happened to be the inspired Word of God, word for word true, every bit (even though I knew we don’t actually have the original texts, just copies of copies, but hey, defense mechanism wouldn’t let me go near that one.) So, summing up all that rambling, I learned that 1) just because someone believes differently from me, doesn’t mean they are stupid, and 2) I was juuuuust beginning to understand/admit that, since I had by this time evaluated many beliefs and practices I always took for granted and simply did not have the capacity to even consider questining (would never have occured to me), and after said evaluation, found many of our/my practices/beliefs anywhere from questionable to downright laughable, if that were true, then through the cracks, a realization was coming forth. I would have to question it all. Nope. Nope. No way. That way lies destruction and so forth and other sundry unpleasantries. Then the big one caught hold of me, and would not let go. I tried every way I could think of to avoid the inevitability, but, call it a sick obsession, but my mind developed into this leviathan-slagathor type entity that I had lost complete control of. It made me think of those things you’re not supposed to think of. Namely, the big one: Why do I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God? “Oh double, triple shit.” No, worse than that, but I shant codify such boorish profanity here. I won’t get into it (promise), but it had to do with Canonicity, how our Bible came to be what it is today. That’s a long long “paragraph” that I will spare you from, should any reader actually remain. To him/her, well, you’re a trooper. If’n you want to know the details about that, I’ll be glad to share. Anyway, not without one of the most desperate struggles I’ve ever experienced, I finally became disuaded of the verbal plenary inspiration of scripture, that the Bible was the Absolute Truth. Whoops. That was what the entire foundation of my life was based on, and I didn’t take such things lightly, to say the least. Concisely put, I was supposed to accept at pastorate at a church in Arkansas, and literally the night before, I called the head deacon and just told him I couldn’t do it, and I told him why. I have not been to church since, and only rarely read the bible (more for nonspiritual reasons). I haven’t translated or even read Greek in 12 years. Kinda sad actually – I wish I would have kept up with that. I mean, I can still understand, but the acumen has disappated, along with any sense of “belief.” The next several years were filled with what I now consider to be a sort of dark ages of questioning everything, and if I came to a conclusion that something was true, Leviathan-Slagathor rubbed his greasy words all over my head: “What if that’s not true? Who are you? You are a miniscule peon with knowledge so limited and skewed, that the stench of arrogance emanating from you even entertaining a belief “an absolute truth” is, well, pungent. Would be fine, or at least bearable if every waking moment weren’t a continuation of the unending conundrum of trying to find truth, to find belief, to know how to believe, to know even how to think about such things.
The worst of it is past. I got a girlfriend and started smoking weed and playing music around town. If not, I was drinking or obsessively playing chess, anything to gain those precious moments of freedom from my tormentor (Leviathan-Slagathor – my brain/mind/demonoid entity, let’s just call him Levi from now on). Fun times. Went through my twenties trying to find my foundation. To this day I have a hard time taking a genuine stance on something (I know it doesn’t seem like it, but that’s another monograph as well). Note: By now you may realize I am writing for my own therapeutic reasons…I think we were talking about rings.
Well, let’s go ahead and finish the thought, because this is the best part. (Let’s? Note to self, keep an eye on that…) So, blah blah, girls, drinking, drugs, despair, marriage, graduating University, going to grad school, getting two “almost” Masters (apparently they insist on theses – which you’d think I’d have no problem with, but, eh, boring, chose wrong major, etc, etc.) Murcuriality (Imma say that’a word), thy name is gimelnus. Divorce, two best friends shot themselves in the head (seperately), some other bad shit, boo hoo, rough times in 08 and 09, lots of heavy drinking. And den….and den (Dude where’s my car? Anybody?). Around 2010, through shite I won’t get into, I slowly decided I wanted to live. Death bad, life good. So, that meant to me that I had to take steps to get my life into some semblance of order. I was pretty much homeless, had no possessions, no car, no phone, no friends, and still stuck with my mind, who got his come-uppins during that time in the form of liters upon liters of cheap spirits. I die daily, or so said Paul. Went to rehab, lived as kind of a supertramp for a while after that, then back to drinking (had no one to turn to except the abrasive ex girlfriend of my homicidal-suicidal-late-best friend. So, decided to live. Somehow got some clothes for an interview, got a job overnight at a hotel, was doing ok once in a while for a change. Decided to go finish up my Masterses’, but that petered out – no interest, no passion for it. Moved to Texarkana, my hometown, got my own friggin apartment and a job (I had a friend there – the one person who didn’t completely disown me for being a god-forsaken apostate, drunken, demon-possessed,(ad nauseum) sinner.
Incidentally, he was the only person on my side of my recent wedding this past 4/20 (no weed involved). Oh, yeah, her. No, seriously, my wife, she’s amazing. She teaches me. She helped me understand how to understand relativism and subjectivism. I mean, I knew what they were, I just found them ludicrous and summarily unreliable. I have learned more during my relationship with her than I feel like I have my entire life. Yet I feel like I know nothing. So said Socrates: “All I know is that I know nothing.” I thought of it first, though. Besides, he’s make believe, a figment of Plato’s imagination. And ugly too. Nah, he’s my Greek.
So, Faux, if you are still alive, hopefully you can somehow ascertain from these undoubtedly profound and highly organized quasi-thoughts, it’s not what you believe that I’m interested in, but, as you (or your corpse), have almost certainly gathered, I am extremely interested in why people believe what they believe. A lot of times it is interpreted as an attack. I can explain that, though. It’s because I’m an asshole. But seriously though, folks…I often skip thoughts or other schtuff which would clarify, soften, or ingratiate my rhetorical companion.
Ok, so we have (gonna do a little deconstruction, or, devil’s advocate here. Take it in the spirit of fun, or I will cast a spell upon you and your couch.
I don’t want guys hitting on me, period, and I think that a ring will help to deter that.
I have heard other girls say this, and I think I can see the value in that argumentation. I do, however, feel that it is a spurious addition to your original assertions. Nonetheless, without overthinking it, I do see it as a reasonable defense of your argument. Not attacking you, but this is argumentation/apologetic-oriented and not causal/origination-oriented.
I want the ring I want because I want an engagement ring when I get engaged.
Ok, so here’s a spot where, were this my desire/inclination, Levi (he’s still there, and I let him out sometimes, because he needs exercise once in a while, but he knows the shackles are on the other wrists now…sure sure), Levi would first ask simply “Why”? Why do you want and engagement ring when you get engaged? He would ask, “Is it possible that not wanting an engagement ring when you get engaged is a plausible position, one that some girls, perhaps in our culture, perhaps in others, feel the complete opposite?” Now, Levi is not trying to persuade you to adopt that, merely acknowledge it as an alternative, one of perhaps equal plausibility, acceptibility, practicality, whatever – for someone else. If you say, ok, Levi, since you’re not knocking my desire to have an engagement ring when I get engaged and are just asking me to accept a logical premise, I suppose I can do that. But you smell like Tuna and four day old formula. Ok, so now that that harmless logical, and perhaps obvious assertion is accepted, what can we draw from that? What does that imply?
Levi? Wake up Levi. Leviathan-Slagathor! There he is. Levi says if you accept that premise, would it not follow that, had circumstances in your past, i.e., your life, your environment, where you lived, the nature and beliefs of the people in your environment, (and just go on with the list of all the things that could have been different about your life) -had some of these things been different, then it does it not naturally follow that they could have differed to the degree or quality required to produce a version of you that holds the opposite belief you hold now? – Is it reasonable to postulate that, if there exists someone out there who has had a different set of experiences from you, and holds the opposite – or at least a deviation – that there must be factors that caused that difference?
What are these factors? I know it seems silly to go through such an exercise for such a matter as engagement rings, but, does it seem reasonable to assume that most, if not all, aspects of a human being can be analyzed in such a fashion? This is not to say that we are aware of the “correct” or “best” method to do this, but it is an acknowledgment of the logical inevitablity of the causal relationship between who we are, what we believe, and _______. I put a blank there, because I feel that even though we can apply clumsly logic that works and is useful for certain types of understanding and growth, the actual factors, stimuli, contingencies, be they environmental, biological, or some other form for which we don’t have concise verbiage, seem to me to be unquantifiable, just as the universe is seeminly infinite, and even the human body, or matter, for that matter. Everything can be broken down, and so often we though historically thought we have found the smallest aspect of life, the building block, the atom, the proton, neutron, electron, then quarks, and so on, What is energy made of? OK…i think Levi is getting out of control.
Well, we just scratched the surface with merely one aspect of your position, and I suddenly realize I have been typing for a very long time.
It is time to feed my boy. He’ll be nine months this monday. Already walking and beating me at chess. Well, mostly just knocking the pieces over, which I think counts.
And, once again, Faux, and any other unfortunate reader whose eyes I have defiled, I’m very sorry if I came off as condescending or antagonistic. I do the same thing in real life sometimes, because, I forget to remind the person that I’m really just thinking out loud, trying out an idea, trying out the opposite. My wife knows this, but I get so excited sometimes it still seems agressive. I’m aware of this, and I offer you my condolences and shamefaced, sheepdog, puppy dog eyed apology.
Where am I?
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