(Closed) I Look Down on Young Women With Husbands and Kids and I'm Not Sorry

posted 7 years ago in Parenting
Post # 62
Member
7976 posts
Bumble Beekeeper
  • Wedding: July 2013 - UK

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@UK Bride:  In exactly the same position. If you are in academia, the only way you can work with young kids is to do it as a vanity project whilst your high earning husband pays for childcare.

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@peachacid:  “And it’s not as hard to stay at home with kids as it is to work and have kids.  It just isn’t.”

Dude… are you really suggesting that UK academics should work if they have young children just on principle? Because if I had two pre-school children, the only way I could afford to work is if we sold our house, moved in with the in-laws into a single room, and used the equity in our former home to pay for childcare. That isn’t an exaggeration… that is reality.

Post # 63
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9916 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper
  • Wedding: June 2013

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@Rachel631:  No, you do what’s best.  But don’t you DARE tell me my parents didn’t care about me because they worked.  If it’s economically feasible for you to stay home with your kids, AND you want to, do it.  But don’t act like your life is soooo hard.  Millions of women work AND have kids AND clean AND cook and they don’t get articles written about how they should be “appreciated for their accomplishments” like stay-at-home-moms do.  

Post # 64
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1401 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: November 2011

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@peachacid:  That genuinely wasn’t meant to be a commentary on working parents’ affection of or ability to care for their kids. I totally admire working parents. I was just pointing out that the choices of SAHMs also have merit and don’t deserve to be written off as ‘the easy road out’. 

Post # 65
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9916 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper
  • Wedding: June 2013

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@UK Bride:  I did not say it was the easy road out.  I said it’s not as much of an accomplishment for a woman to just raise a family as it is for her to raise a family AND work.  

I’m sorry if I got upset, but everytime people talk about the merits of stay-at-home-moms, someone comments about how they’re better moms and more caring moms than those who work.  It pisses me off.  

Post # 66
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7976 posts
Bumble Beekeeper
  • Wedding: July 2013 - UK

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@peachacid:  My point is not that UK women stay home because it is “economically feasible”… they stay home because the alternative is bankrupcy! And they shouldn’t feel bad about that… they have made a rational economic choice for the good of their family and they shouldn’t be made to feel guilty about it.

Also, let me say this… there are SAHMs, and SAHMs! If being at home was my full time job, I would do things differently… I would grow all my own fruit and veg, rather than just some of it. I would do more charity work. I would cook a proper, three course meal every day. My home would be spotless as opposed to merely clean. If I had to put my heart and soul into it… sure, I’d do it better. That doesn’t mean I’m doing an awful job right now. Nor does it mean that I need to feel bad if I’m forced out of paid labour due to a poor economic situation and the high cost of childcare. Basically, I think PP is responding to people who suggest she is somehow less of a feminist, or somehow lazy, because she doesn’t also do paid work. And that’s really unfair when the family would have to make huge financial sacrifices in order for her to do paid labour. I’m sure she works very hard and does a lot of great things with her time, and I can understand her insecurity.

Post # 67
Member
9916 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper
  • Wedding: June 2013

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@Rachel631:  Yeah, I typed and submitted economically feasible but I really meant economically necessary.  

 

What frustrates me is that everyone has to defend stay-at-home moms like they’re beyond reproach.  Um, no, you’re just a mom.  You’re doing what everyone’s mom did until like 60 years ago.  

 

Post # 68
Member
1146 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: June 2014

I feel like this is a case of someone taking some healthy life philosophies and injecting them with rage until they’re so distorted they no longer make sense and are presente so hatefully it’s hard to support her ideas whether you agree or not.

I understand believing certain choices can be to a person’s detriment….but everyone faces challenges. To dismiss someone’s choice as less valid because you percieve it as less challenging is wrong. Until everyone has the exact same set of values and priorities, there will not be a baseline of “challenging” or “not challenging” on which to judge this.

Even if someone does choose the “path of least resistance” (and that, in and of it self, is also subjective) don’t we need some people in the world to choose that path as well? Similar to a point someone made on the thread about parenting mistakes that impede your child’s ability to become a leader — we don’t NEED EVERYONE to be a leader.

I agree that feminism is about having the power to choose the path you want, but like someone said, we have feminism to thank for making Stay-At-Home Mom or whatever you want to do a CHOICE, and not a result of societal pressures. She could have made a lot of great points had she eased up on the venom.

Same with the cheating post — I believe that some people DO become to lax in a marriage (physically and otherwise) and that you SHOULD do your best to remain a great partner. I don’t think there is ever an excuse to cheat, but I do believe that sometimes the seeds are planted by a complacent partner, especially a female partner who edges out her husband in favor of a child. I believe the marital partnership is the bedrock for the kids’ stability and world, and thus it should be prioritized. But again…she packaged her thoughts on this in such a nasty and offensive way, riddled with absolutes.

I’m gonna have to say I agree that she’s being bombastic on purpose, trying to get views. Aaaand…looks like it’s working.

Post # 69
Member
7976 posts
Bumble Beekeeper
  • Wedding: July 2013 - UK

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@peachacid:  I think the real issue is that women feel the need to critique each other’s choices. Where are the similar critiques for men’s choices?

The choice I will face is also a hard one… it may well be economically necessary that I do not work, if I choose to have children… but why should I be more greatly lauded if I chose to work by sacrificing my home and getting into debt to pay for childcare, than if I chose to be a Stay-At-Home Mom and preserve the family finances?

I mean, let’s do the maths… a starting salary in academia is about 17,000 before tax… about 13K after tax (this is with a PhD). Childcare can easily top 20K a year. So you’re already £7,000 short even with just one child.

Post # 70
Member
9916 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper
  • Wedding: June 2013

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@Rachel631:  And I think that is a huge problem, and one that I will probably face, and one that shouldn’t only impact women.  But the thing is, when/if you have to give up work for your kids, it shouldn’t be considered a “sacrifice” or “noble” or “amazing”. It should be just what you have to do.  And when you go back to work, it shouldn’t be a “sacrifice” or “noble” or “amazing”.  It should be just, “now my kids are in school and I can work again.”  

Why do women have to stay home and take care of the kids anyway?  I don’t want to do that.  My husband should — his hours are more conducive to being at home.

Post # 71
Member
1401 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: November 2011

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@peachacid:  They’re defending themselves (and being defended) because of articles like this one… Nobody likes being broadly labelled a lazy, unremarkable idiot who stunts women’s ability to achieve greatness by smugly settling for a life of what can only be described as the most mundane of drudgeries. 

Post # 72
Member
7976 posts
Bumble Beekeeper
  • Wedding: July 2013 - UK

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@peachacid:  “Why do women have to stay home and take care of the kids anyway?  I don’t want to do that.  My husband should — his hours are more conducive to being at home.”

Oh come now… you know the answer to that! It’s because women tend to earn less then men for the same work, and work more flexible jobs, hours-wise. I earn less than DH and probably always will. On the one hand, it is liberating because it means I don’t have to work for money. On the other hand, not so…. I will always be the one who has to sacrifice their career.

Post # 73
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1470 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: August 2011

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@peachacid:  But here’s the thing. If you go to work, someone else cares for your kids in the hours when you work. Whether that’s a spouse, a daycare provider, your mom, etc., someone else is watching your kids for those hours. And that’s great. It’s okay to have a job and raise children, and I wouldn’t dare to tell you that your mom didn’t love you because she had a job…that’s ridiculous.

But at the same time, being a Stay-At-Home Mom has been more constant and difficult than any job I’ve ever had (and I’ve had difficult jobs). I love it, and wouldn’t trade it for the pay-off I see with my son, but it’s definitely not “easier” than working. My husband, who stays home Mondays (he works 4 10s) would say hands-down that his (licensed, masters-degree-requiring) job is far less demanding than the day he stays home.

As it is, I work part-time, and when I go to work, I pretty much consider it a “break” from my life. Of course, this varies with the age of the child, and what field you are in, but working could absolutely be “easier” than staying home (and vice versa). So to make a blanket statement that working and raising kids is harder “It just is,” is ridiculous. It totally depends on teh situation. 

People make the best decision for them. If I want to leave my career to raise children, it’s certainly not because I think it’s “easier,” it’s because I think it’s better for my family at this time. 

Post # 74
Member
2585 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: November 2012

Wow. I bet she’s a joy to be around…

Post # 75
Member
3277 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: October 2010

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@peachacid:  

I definitely think that someone who works while raising a family is accomplishing a lot, but I also think that a Stay-At-Home Mom who is quietly pouring her heart and soul into her children while they are young is just as admirable.”

I’m a little confused.

How does the statement above read that working parents don’t care about their kids as much as stay at home parents? It says that raising young children while staying at home is just as admirable, not more admirable than being a working parent.

Can you explain how you deduced that this was an insult to your parents? I really don’t understand; I am not just taking the piss. 


Post # 76
Member
3277 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: October 2010

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@peachacid:  

I can understand how it would piss you off to hear that Stay-At-Home Mom are better parents.

However, you did express a dismissive statement about SAHMs not accomplishing as much as working parents. That seems like the reverse of exactly what you hate. 

 

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