Post # 16
bctoquebec : honestly though, I’m super, super affectionate whenever we’re together. I’m always free to meet up when he wants.
I may not have wanted him to come to my reunion when he offered after only knowing each other for 4 weeks, but I am starting to wonder if everyone’s theory that he thinks I’m not that interested could possibly be true. I think that I act super interested and always want to see him.
Post # 17
If a man is really interested in a woman he won’t lose interest because she won’t sleep with him after a month. That’s RIDICULOUS thinking. You don’t have to go around fearing that if you don’t have sex with a man when he first hints at it he will stop calling. If he does then good riddance. This applies to EVERY age group. Never feel the need to sleep with a guy because you fear he will go date around otherwise. The right one will wait for when you’re ready.
** The fact that he didn’t want to sleep with you this past weekend , even with your heavy hinting and affections could just mean that his feelings aren’t there yet. Go with the flow but definitely open yourself up to other men.
Post # 18
Check out Evan Marc Katz’ site on this. Just search his blog, and you’ll find all kinds of helpful stuff, I think.
I personally have chosen to not be intimate with someone until we have made an agreement that we’re exclusive. I don’t see that as a problem- other bees will no doubt disagree, but it’s your body and you get to choose.
AND being clear with him about that is important.
Being clear with him that you want to be exclusive (if that is what you want) is important.
If you’re just giving push-him-away type signals, without just sitting down and getting absolutely clear about what you are both looking for, it seems things could get muddy, and it would be easy to just sort of scattershot each other, wondering what the other is doing & just sort of living in assumption and reaction.
Ugh, bee! If you know you want a relationship, there’s nothing wrong in stating where you stand. What he chooses would either help weed him out faster so you’re not wasting your time, or have him and you both feel happily on the same page.
Have courage! Either way, getting clear ultimately has things work out for the best.
Post # 19
I think what happened with you is what happens so often in dating nowadays. Fear got the best of you. You didn’t want to come right out and say you wanted a relationship or to be exclusive, and you didn’t want to show too much interest for fear he might not feel the same.
I also have to say that your assumption that he is sleeping with others just because you see a disappearing stack of condoms on his nightstand is a bit of a leap and also fear-based.
Bee, this is madness! Just TALK to the man. If you cann’t wait till the next time you see him, that is what phones are for. Just ask him when it would be a good time to chat and ask if he can give you a call at that time.
You cannot let fear and anxiety run you to this extent. You do have to be bold to an extent in dating. If you want to know whether he is sleeping with others – ask him. If you two are affectionate and been seeing each other for a while, you have a right to know. If you want an exclusive relationship, ASK him if that is something he also wants and would be open to. You have a right to know where you stand.
And as far as showing a lack of interest from your side, this is a subtle part of dating that you need to navigate with sensitivity. Men have fear too, and they are also not mind-readers. When you turn them down for something, it’s important that you explain your reasons for doing so and make it clear that it is not a reflection of your interest in or attraction to them. (The Bee who suggested you check out Evan Marc Katz’s website gave good advice – EMK has some great scripts for how you can tell a man you are into him but don’t want to sleep together until you are boyfriend/girlfriend.) The school reunion story is the same thing – if you didn’t want him to come, you need to take his hands in yours, look into his eyes and tell him that it’s something you’d love to do in the future, but you’d feel nervous at this stage of your relationship.
Just talk to the man, and don’t be so wracked with fear! the worst that can happen is that he answers unfavorably, in which case, you know where you stand and can move on.
Post # 20
All of that said, the overall impression I get (based on your last post and this post), is that the two of you just simply might not be on the same page or all that compatible. I think it’s possible that you are not as into him as you think you are, and vice versa.
Post # 21
cityred : i don’t agree with everyone who’s saying that somehow you’re not showing enough interest. A guy who’s into you knows you’re interested because you keep saying yes to dates. I’m sure you’re giving off vibes that you’re into him when you’re together. He prob just decided he wanted to get laid and things were moving too slowly with you in that department. It’s unfortunate, but most guys are going to operate this way. Personally I would never keep dating someone who wasn’t into me enough to focus his attention on me (even if you haven’t had the exclusive talk). He can’t really be that into you if he is willing to sleep with other girls two months into this process.
I guess you can talk to him about it. As others have suggested, and just see where things stand.
Post # 22
Personally, I would cut my losses and move on, there’s no way I would be dating someone who was sleeping with and dating other people at the same time. Also, I don’t agree that because you’ve not slept with him in two months that means you’re not showing him you’re interested, you don’t need to have sex with someone so that they know you like them. I didn’t have sex with my fiancée for about 8 weeks after we first met as she was a virgin and I knew she was interested, and I’ve slept with people on the first/second date before and had casual relationships etc.
But there’s no way if I wanted a relationship with someone that I would be dating them for months while they’re seeing other people, unless that’s been agreed up on prior I find it really disrespectful. If someone can’t focus on just me after two months and is still entertaining other women then that’s time to end it imo.
Post # 23
Post # 24
Bee, What does super, super affectionate mean? What does it look like?
You can’t make him want you, Bee. If he’s not feeling it, he’s not feeling it. I don’t know why he encouraged you to spend the night. I wasn’t there. He’s the only one who can explain that.
At this point, it sounds like you’re wasting a lot of time and energy.
He keeps condoms visibly stacked on his nightstand? That’s rather ick.
Post # 25
cityred : so he’s making excuses NOT to sleep with you? He’s refused you a few times now?
My dh said he would advise you to move on based on the limited info you posted. He said there are too many questions about the relationship too early. He also wondered if the age difference and income disparity is substantial? Do *you* pay for the dates? Regarding the disappearing condoms, you may be right, he could be sleeping with another woman (or man).
Post # 26
Well said, Bee.
Just to take it a bit further; we women are heavily brainwashed into pegging our sense of self worth onto other people. In doing so, we surrender our personal power. Feeling powerless is the driver behind the fear that you so accurately identified.
If we break it down in a reality based way, the truth is, that if we are rejected by a man, there are a dozen or more possible reasons, very few of which have a thing to do with you. Many times, it’s all based in his own life space at the moment. Or reasons that are totally his and about which we can do nothing. Maybe he has a big thing for tall women and I’m 5’3”.
What if there really is something about you that turns him off? So effin what? How does one person’s opinion; a person who barely knows you, become an invalidation of your total Self?
It sounds absurd, but we women have been trained to allow it. Not being some rando’s cup of tea becomes an indictment of who we are.
We buy into criticism, with little vetting of the source; whole cloth.
And the outcome is always the same: we surrender our power.
This is what feels so bad. And this is where your observation about fear becomes so important. Feeling powerless generates fear.
I’m not referencing one isolated incident. This is pounded into our brains over our lifetimes. Not being chosen = unloveable = worthless.
None of this is accidental. This is quite an effective technique for keeping women in their place. Once again, Hollywood has done a splendid job of picking up where folklore, family, and fairy tales left off.
Post # 27
sassy411 : I agree! What kind of grown man keeps a stack of condoms on display on his bedside table? Seems like the behaviour of a young guy wanting to show everyone “look, I’m having sex!”.
ETA: OP, after your updates, honestly to me it sounds like maybe he’s just not that into you. He also sounds exhausting and not worth the headache at this point. If I were you, I’d move on to date others and forget about this guy. Best of luck!!
Post # 28
Your points about fear are absolutely true of course. I see it all the time in others’ behaviour, and I was shocked when I realised it in myself as well.
In addition to the fear of not being worthy, there are also fears of abandonment, rejection and scarcity.
To be fair, I think men suffer from fear a lot too – I just think their fears are different from ours in some ways.
But yes, you’re absolutely right. Acting in an empowered, confident way is the way to go.
And you’re so right as well that someone else’s rejection of us so often has absolutely nothing to do with us. It would be nice if we could default to this instead of always taking it personally.
Post # 29
Yes, you are absolutely right.
Men definitely have different fears; their anxieties anchor around being unable to perform, eg sexually; as a provider; as a winner; in sports; in business, etc. Males had to be the best hunters and the strongest fighters to keep themselves alive to spread their seeds. They had to protect the females to ensure that those seeds became little offspring. That caveman perspective has outlived its utility.
Men define themselves by what they do; we women are taught to define ourselves by what we are. You can see how that, by definition, puts us into a more passive position.
The fears of abandonment, scarcity, and rejection—good points, all. Each of those flows out of the fear of being found unworthy. At the core, unworthy really translates into unlovable which is the trigger for the other neurotic fears that drive our self sabotaging relationship behaviors.
Post # 30
Thanks everyone for all the thoughtful replies.
I was super sick this weekend and the past 2 weeks, which made me emotional and in my own head. Now that I’m feeling better and my head is cleared, I have some thoughts about all the good points you have made.
To answer mrstodd2bee : s question, he is 8 years older than I am and pays for everything, except for small things where I try to treat him. He makes a fair amount more money than I do although I have a professional career.
indigobee : I think that despite thinking I have been affectionate, etc., you’re right that I may have conveyed ambivalence that actually exists. It’s not because of him, but because of his situation. Since we started dating, he was told he may get 100% custody of his kids and his ex-wife would move overseas, which was totally unexpected and intimidating to me. I like kids, but it’s a big responsibility to feel like I’d be their mother figure. This arrangement is not settled and still up in the air, so there’s a lot of uncertainty around it.
So, I have been torn because emotionally I feel all in, but rationally, I feel unsure if this is the best situation to enter into because it may be difficult to be the stepmother to kids who are going through a tough transition.
I think it’s possible that my ambivalence and not talking about my feeilngs about the situation have led to this lack of communication between us and lack of clarity that we are in a relationship where we are both all in and general weirdness and stalled momentum between us.
If he is indeed seeing someone else at this point, it would make me feel insecure but I don’t blame him for it and I realize I need to get clear in my own head what I want before I can ask him for more commitment. I guess I’ve been feeling and acting a bit inconsistent because of this dichotomy where I do really like him as a person, but have doubts about his situation.