(Closed) Im PROUD to change my last name! Anyone else?

posted 9 years ago in Names
Post # 90
Member
939 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: October 2012

@PO: perfectly stated.  i feel like you tapped into my thoughts and made them more organized!

Post # 91
Member
40 posts
Newbee

@ Lee_Ann, thanks, I loved your post too! it really illustrated to me what we (to-be-married & married folk) are, at the end of the day, MOST proud of — it’s not our weddings or our names or our rings, but it’s the chance to grow as individuals, together. To be challenged to go beyond our limitations and learn how to love unconditionally, build a home, support one another in our work.  At least this is what I’ve heard from most long-married couples, and that’s why I hope everyone who wants to will have the chance to get married one day and experience this!  Anyway, I respect everyone here for having their ideas about how to best state their commitment to one another, and think this is is a valuable discussion.

Post # 92
Member
249 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: March 2012

 I will be taking my husbands name, even though its 9 whole letters longer than my current surname and it took about a month for me to be able to pronounce it properly. But i’m taking it because when we get married we will become our own family unit and I do not want a different surname from my children. Also, he is the last in his family line with that surname and he would like to carry it on – I have two brothers so their kids will carry my current surname on.

We did toss the idea around of creating a new surname with part of both of our current surnames, but I dont really feel the need to. I cant wait to be Mrs … ……….

Post # 93
Member
9816 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper

@PO: Thank you so much for posting this. The whole thing to me was reading like thinly veiled “Men know best.” The whole “head of the household” thing I will never understand. No one is the head of anything in my life except me. My husband is my partner. If I’m not on board with a decision, it doesn’t happen.

And I did not change my name ๐Ÿ™‚

Post # 94
Member
1309 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: December 2011

The changing-your-name thing was never a question for me, and it’s certainly not a feminist issue for me. Since I was a child I’ve looked forward to being able to tell people my full name and not have to spell it out over and over. My maiden name is one of those supposedly “cool” unusual names (it’s the name of a saint) but it also has six consonants.  Most Americans can’t handle it. I even mispronounced it myself until fifth grade when my mother took me aside and told me, “you do know our name is pronounced ___, right?” Noooooooooo. Not keeping the name.

off topic, I know that Catholics consider Paul’s point to be more  of a “mutual submission” thing. The husband has to submit himself to his wife and the wife has to submit herself to her husband. Submission is another way of saying you’re not going to do whatever the hell you want to do; you are tied to another person whose needs you have to take into account and who you have to even be willing to make sacrifices for. Married women are not independent women. But married men are not independent men, either. Reading this passage in context with the rest of the Bible, Paul would have been pissed with a husband who ordered around his wife and lorded it over her.

I have known a few households where the partners weren’t interested in submitting to each other (aka compromising) and it was a hot mess. FWIW.

Post # 95
Member
592 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: July 2012

@PO: Standing ovation!

And FWIW I take my sushi eating pretty damn seriously.

Post # 96
Member
206 posts
Helper bee

I really dislike the view you’ve presented here; it’s known as complementarianism. I think it’s a modern distortion of what the scriptures actually have to say about women and relationships. It’s being presented on these boards as the only biblical view, but really, it’s just one interpretation.

To me, it’s antithetical to the freedom that we are given in Christ. I recommend that both you and your Fiance check out the other Christian view on marriage (Egalitarianism); Christians for Biblical Equality is an excellent resource http://www.cbeinternational.org/.

Headship in marriage is never mentioned in the bible, and certainly not name changes. I’ve recently started researching the topic, and have heard from a lot of women who have tried wholeheartedly to fit into “church assigned roles” in their marriage, and have it end in nothing but heartache for them and their spouses. Likewise, the bible never tells women to “obey” their husbands.

A much more biblical position is mutual submission in marriage. Both spouses should be willing to put the other’s needs ahead of their own. What that looks like is going to depend on the idividual giftings of the couple, and not on cultual ideas of a man taking charge, and a woman nurturing.

 

On the abuse issue, following the bible does not lead to abuse, but this site http://www.nolongerquivering.com is full of stories of women whose abused used to bible to justify their abuse.

 

Another idea that’s being presented here as biblical is the idea that husbands should get to have the final say in any disagreements between a couple. There is absolutely no verse that supports that.

@muckmoo1: The biblical definition of submit is to put another’s needs and desires above your own. From Ephesians 5:21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ

 

 

 

Post # 97
Member
206 posts
Helper bee

@secondchances: wow, that sounds so encouraging. That’s the kind of marriage I want to have.

Post # 98
Member
724 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: July 2011

@PO: I think we actually agree more than you might think! Your description of how your relationship works is very much in line with what I’ve been taught regarding this Scripture. Like I said, I think this behavior is used only seldom, when the husband and wife really can’t agree on a decision. At that point, the wife is called to trust her husband implicitly, and leave it at that. So in a way, yes, I would respect his reasons because I know his reasons are well thought out and good. If I suspected he was doing something selfishly or for his own gain, that I would not be called to obey them. We’re pretty much on the same page. The vacation analogy is not a good one, because it likely to be one of those decisions that we would agree on anyway. I actually think of a situation where I’ve had to submit to my Fiance at this point in our relationship! If that happens, I’ll report back and let you know what that decision was.

I also agree with you that the passage is very sexist against men. I feel bad for my Fiance that he is the one who has to bear the accountability to Jesus for all decisions. My pastor explained that there are actually varied levels of accountability and responsibility. The wife is responsible for certain things, like child-rearing, but at the end of the day, if Jesus showed up at our door, my husband would be the one accountable to what I did. Which is just weird. I don’t live my life like that.

Anyway, I’m not a pastor or even a student at a Christian college, so a lot of this is just what I’ve gleaned in my life. I’m certainly not the best at explaining everything and hopefully no one holds that against me!

Post # 99
Member
3601 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: January 1992

@moara: The biblical definition of submit is to put another’s needs and desires above your own. From Ephesians 5:21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

 

 

Post # 100
Member
206 posts
Helper bee

@MissKatelyn:

My pastor explained that there are actually varied levels of accountability and responsibility. The wife is responsible for certain things, like child-rearing, but at the end of the day, if Jesus showed up at our door, my husband would be the one accountable to what I did. Which is just weird. I don’t live my life like that. 

Eugh. This is bad theology, and definitely not biblical. All people are responsible for their own actions before God. Everything you do under your own power, you will need to give an answer for.  This kind of view comes from reading all kinds of things into the scriptures, which simply aren’t there. THings like saying the first sin was not Adam and Eve eating the fruit, but Adam not properly supervising his wife Undecided. This kind of teaching can lead to a man attempting to control his wife. If he’s responsible for his actions, it encourages him to want to stop her from doing things he sees as wrong, since he’s the one who needs to answer for them.

Post # 101
Member
1326 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: October 2011 - Tre Bella, Mesa, AZ

@Anniebo:  I was trying to explain the opposite side of things since you had explained the Christian side, but I can see we didn’t really get anywhere. ๐Ÿ˜‰ Thank you for the offer of PMing, but I think we’ll just agree to disagree. Yes, I do believe people shouldn’t bring religion into discussion unless they’re fairly certain they’re talking with someone of the same relgion, Christian or not. That’s just my personal opinion having been stung by too many people trying to prosthelytize and act righteous, then act like a martyr when I tell them to stop. I try to be respectful of everyone’s beliefs and open to all ideas, but others don’t do that in return, unfortunately.

@PutABirdOnIt: Ditto, which is why I posted on this thread – but I’m going to back out now, slowly… ๐Ÿ˜‰

Post # 102
Member
724 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: July 2011

@moara:

Eugh. This is bad theology, and definitely not biblical. All people are responsible for their own actions before God. Everything you do under your own power, you will need to give an answer for.

I don’t think my pastor was saying we don’t have any responsibility over our own actions. I think the idea was that the husband is held accountable for the state of his family. Not that the woman isn’t accountable for her own actions, but that the husband is accountable for the state of the entire family.

But like I said, I don’t know if I really buy that. That’s just what he said. Interpretations abound in the Christian Church, and I think we have to pray and do what we feel is the most God-honoring.

And I *love* the term mutual submission. That’s exactly it.

Post # 103
Member
1309 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: December 2011

@MissKatelyn: I believe Pope John Paul II coined the phrase mutual submission in one of writings called Mulieris Dignitatem (here in English: “The Dignity of Women“). It’s a long, but interesting, read if you are interested.

Post # 104
Member
40 posts
Newbee

@MissKatelyn, thanks for your response, I think we agree on a lot as well! With all due respect to your pastor, the ideology behind his interpretation is that men have better reasoning capability and therefore bear more responsiblity than women or children. As I said, this is an ancient idea and I don’t think it really applies any more in the modern world where women are getting educated and holding the same positions in society, not to mention within the family. There is just no good reason why men should have to take more responsibility for the family. We are just as capable, reasonable, and good at owning up our mistakes and trying to fix them.

(Also, the idea that there are “different” levels of responsibility and accountability is code for “lesser for the woman,” and I think we agree on that. The last time the ‘separate but equal’ argument was used to justify inequality it did not succeed.)

@MissLilac and KatyElle, thanks! ๐Ÿ™‚  I know that for a lot of people, discussions about religious issues on these boards make them feel uncomfortable. I’m sorry about that, partly because I would rather discuss these things than repress them, and partly because marriage just is a spiritual, moral, & political issue. Lots of wedding-related things aren’t, and they are fun to talk about too…  But obviously a big part of why we care about our weddings is because they represent our marriages.  And I think we talk about what our marriages mean because it would feel alienating and weird to get married in a society where everyone had a completely different idea of marraige from ourselves! Does that make any sense? I’m just saying that I get why everyone has been so emotional about that topic. Whether or not we like it, marriage is partly a social institution, and we rely on others to define it with us. 

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