(Closed) Is forced fatherhood fair?

posted 7 years ago in Parenting
Post # 122
Member
4655 posts
Honey bee
  • Wedding: August 2013

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@harperlynn:  

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@HappySky7:  

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@Mrs.KMM:  

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@MrsWBS: 

By this logic, abortion should be illegal too. Which is another fight, but the point is that it’s the same concept. I think we should make it EASIER to have sex without stress or worry, not harder. It’s so puritanical to say that sex requires commitment and responsibility. Let’s unburden people of that and let them CHOOSE those things, or not.

Currently, the parenting system is skewed in favor of women – I don’t think we can even debate that. Once the deed is done, women still have a choice men don’t have, and that’s what’s not fair. Why do men have only two “points of choice” (have sex or not, use a condom or not) when women have at least three if not more (have sex or don’t, use BC or don’t, have an abortion or don’t, adopt out the baby or don’t)? Why do women deserve more choices over a longer period when BOTH parties made the SAME choice to have sex?

I am a staunch feminst, some would say obsessive, but that means I think things should be equal. I don’t see this as equal. It’s just TOO easy for a woman who really wants a baby for whatever reason to trick a guy into it. (Poke holes in condoms, etc.) If I were a man, I’d get a vasectomy and regular sperm tests just to make sure no crazy lady could ruin my life like that.

Sure, it’s rare, probably VERY rare, but it’s totally life ruining. If I were a man and it happened to me I would kill myself. People should be able to have sex without worrying about the rest of their lives being destroyed by parenthood.

It’s also something a woman NEVER has to worry about, because she can just terminate if she doesn’t want it.

That’s why I think that for the same time period that abortion is an option, walking away from the pregnancy should be an option for a man. That way the woman can base her choice to keep or abort based on if she wants to raise it by herself and everything is fair.

Post # 123
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1670 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: June 2014

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@Bebealways:  Unfortunately Men and Women will never be equal when it comes to the issue of reproduction. There is literally no physical way they can be the same thing.

Only A + B can result in C.

Genetics suck, guess we women won the genetic lottery by having the “choice” to terminate. 

Post # 124
Member
4655 posts
Honey bee
  • Wedding: August 2013

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@harperlynn:  But we have ways to make it fair, it’s possible to even the playing field by allowing men to withdraw in an official way from fatherhood in time for the woman to decide if she still wants to keep it or not. I don’t see any downside to that. Do you?

Post # 125
Member
190 posts
Blushing bee
  • Wedding: June 2015

Dads should absolutely have a say in whether or not the mother has an abortion. Both had sex, and both are having a child as a result. If it is known the father wanted no part of the child from the beginning, she should expect to raise the child on her own with no support whatsoever. 

Post # 126
Member
308 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: October 2011

My question is. If the woman decides to keep the baby most people say yes that’s ok it’s her body her choice. What if the mother wants to abort but the father wants to keep the baby and raise it. What happens then? 

Post # 127
Member
1218 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: July 2013

If the man thought he was taking precautions against pregnancy, like wearing a condom or asking if the woman was using protection, and the woman lied/poked a hole in the condom then no, I don’t think the father should be required to pay child support. However, I doubt this would happen very often.

I actually had the opposite discussion with my ex. He was against abortion and said he wouldn’t “let” me get one if I fell pregnant. I’m pro-choice and totally believe that it would not be appropriate for me to have a child when I’m not financially or emotionally capable, so I told him he could get stuffed and I’d be having an abortion whether he liked it or not. It never came up as a problem, though, because I’m on the Pill and will be until I’m TTC.

Post # 128
Member
3109 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: May 2018

 

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@Bebealways:  life is not fair. Plain and simple. Men make more money. Life is skewed for right handed people. Counters are too tall for little people. biologically this will always be a decision that falls to the mother when it gets to the point of pregnancy. That’s why the man makes his choice before the point of pregnancy. 

It’s just the way things are. 

Post # 129
Member
269 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: February 2013

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@mamadingdong:  This is an extremely rational and intelligent explanation that often gets overlooked. +1

Post # 130
Member
269 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: February 2013

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@Bebealways:  It‘s possible to even the playing field by allowing men to withdraw in an official way from fatherhood in time for the woman to decide if she still wants to keep it or not.

Absolutely agree. And you always give good advice. I should buy your book if there is one 😉

Post # 131
Member
4655 posts
Honey bee
  • Wedding: August 2013

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@mamadingdong:  So I guess you’re also against eyeglasses, or handicapped bathroom stalls? Just because things are a certain way doesn’t mean they should be, and just because something isn’t fair currently doesn’t mean we should give up on making it better. 

Post # 132
Member
3109 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: May 2018

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@Bebealways:  let’s just agree to disagree. I think you’re point of view is nonsensical and you don’t see things my way either. Please don’t respond to me anymore- I really don’t want to hear this ridiculousness anymore. 

Post # 133
Member
4655 posts
Honey bee
  • Wedding: August 2013

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@mamadingdong:  Let’s be real, we’re not on the phone here, we’re on a forum. Nobody’s going to reply if they receive silence. What did you think I was gonna stalk you or something? If you just wanted an end to that conversation and to stop “hearing this ridiculousness” you would have simply ceased replying yourself. Standard forum procedure.

If what you were hoping for was to publicly put me in my place, though, then that post makes perfect sense. 

To which I would say, hey man, it’s not personal. No need to make it so.

Post # 134
Member
11736 posts
Sugar Beekeeper
  • Wedding: November 1999

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@Bebealways: Men and women aren’t biological equal so in this case, it can never be equal.  The second a man can get pregnant and give birth to a child, we can say the other partner has an equal say in whether a child is aborted or not.

 

Some things in life CANNOT be equal.  This is one of them.

 

THe ONLY way this can work is if both partners sign a legally binding contract before having sex saying that if the woman gets pregnant and wants the child, the man has no obligation (financial or otherwise) to the child.

 

I think the woman sabotaging contraception is a moot point for me, because as we have said, this is not only rare, but men are also guilty of doing such things.

 

Lastly, every single action you take in life comes with consequences – both good and bad.  Sex is no exception, nor should it be.  There are lots of things that bring people pleasure in life that also come with consequences that require one to take responsibility for the choices they make.  You need to weigh the risks and benefits of your actions and the consequences before you engage in them.  So no, you should not be able to sleep around without consequence or responsibility.

 

Post # 135
Member
2393 posts
Buzzing bee

@princesslettuce14:  

No man can be forced to be a father, unless someone puts a gun to his head and forces him to put his body parts into a woman’s body parts.

In the real world, if you have sex you might make a baby, and the person with whom you made the baby may or may not want to see the pregnancy through. And one or both parties may pay a heavy price for that. It is not necessarily fair or equal. That is just life in the big city.

Post # 136
Member
9086 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper

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@Bebealways:  In theory the opt out system would be fair and maybe a good option. But all you would get then is women not telling the father and knocking on their door when the kid is born saying suprise now give me some child support.

The only way that the system you indicated would work was if the opt out was signed each time prior to sex and both parties indicated what BC they were both providing (because the man should protect himself with one form of BC and the women should also protect herself with one form of BC) on that occassion and if someone opts out of BC and they both agree to proceed with sex the women understands that if the male was the party to opt out of parental rights that she assumes the risk of pregnancy and has no recourse.

After typing all that I definately don’t feel like sex- imagine reading it, discussing it and then signing. it would definately kill the mood. It might actually decrease the unwanted or accidental pregnancy rates by default.

 

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