Post # 16
Well the poll question and the thread question are different. I answered the poll question.
The poll asks if I consider it a right. I consider a right to be anything I wouldn’t want the government legislating. Would I want the government legistlating whether I or any other person can give birth? No. HELL no. So I consider it a right.
Now.. as for the ethical and moral quagmire of whether or not people struggling with poverty or low income should have children… I tend to go against the grain here, too.
No, I don’t think it’s great that some women have more kids just to get more welfare or to be able to stay in a nicer “family” care center rather than a “woman’s” one. However, my own mother was an uneducated, rather destitute and co-dependent woman who developed a drug habit throughout my childhood and abandoned me on the street at age 12 because she was picked up for possession and went to prison.
I definitely encountered a lot of struggles thanks to her poor decision making, but I’m still 100% glad she carried through with the pregnancy.
I’m not going to judge other women for the decisions they feel they need to make in their lives. Case by case, maybe. But wholesale judgment? No thanks.
Post # 17
I believe we have a right to reproduce or not. However that doesn’t mean that everyone should have children or should have them at a particular time.
I also think it’s not just about wealth, but health as well.
I live in a country with ‘free’ healthcare and an extensive benefits system. Yes there are some people who play the system, but for most that government help is just the extra they need to get by. I pay my NI so that I can access the NHS and so I know that there is a safety net should something happen.
Post # 18
missviolet92 : “No it’s not a right. My friend & i joked last night that people should have a license to breed. A recently sold house next door to her, has been rented to the government as a half way house. The new neighbour is an ex gang member & just got out of prison. They left their 5 &6 year old in the house home alone all weekend until a neighbour called the police. They also encourage their kids to slip into neighbours houses & steal phones &laptops for their parents!”
This post is trash and reflects very poorly on you and your friend.
Post # 19
Interesting. My mother had me when she she and my father were still in college. I’m sure they would fall into the “too poor” category. But circumstances change and they wound up doing very well. Frankly I don’t think income has much to do with the ability to care for a child. I’ve known rich parents who should never have had kids and poor ones whose care for their children was exemplary.
Demonizing the poor and making them societal scapegoats is taking a big step backwards in time and history. But in our current society, with CEOs earning 4x the salary they would have earned in the 70s – 80s (even adjusted for inflation). The gulf between the haves and have-nots keeps widening and we should all be alarmed. Denying someone the chance to have a child on the basis of income fits right in there.
Post # 20
This thread brings up an interesting thought to me. People don’t have to undergo a means test to get pregnant, even if they need IVF to do it. I think that says a lot about whether it’s a “right”. My husband and I joked on the way out of the hospital that they were just….letting us take this baby. No home visit, no reference check, nothing. We had to jump through more hoops to adopt our dog!
Post # 21
glitterati : so you think it’s ok to have kids when you don’t care for them & it’s ok to leave such young kids alone all weekend ? Also it’s ok to encourage kids to steal? Clearly the adults aren’t fit to be parents
Post # 22
missviolet92 : Yikes at your entire comment 😬😬😬
So if you don’t think it’s a right people should have kids, you are suggesting the government should steralize ex gang members, or ex felons? Or force abortions on teenagers just in case they want to live their life on the “single mom benefit”? How should we go about enforcing this non-right?
Post # 23
I mean…i don’t think most people who find themselves relying on social assistance to help with the costs associated with raising a child are living out their best case scenario.
Meaning that for the vast majority this was not their plan.
As pp mentioned the idea that people choose to have kids so they can get more money from the system is largely a myth which demonizes a group of people who haven’t the means to defend themselves. It’s used to justify making cuts to badly needed programs. Because even if parents planned to have those kids as a paycheck, those kids are probably the ones who need the support of social programs more than anyone.
Post # 24
carolinabelle : we were joking because they’re clearly bad parents. They had child services at their house this week too
Post # 25
Obviously I think it’s a parent’s responsibility to best provide for their children and use responsible judgment on whether or not they can give a child the quality of life they deserve. However I have to say, as a philosophical question, I do believe the right to reproduce is one of the strongest inherent, deeply routed rights we have as a species on this earth. Financial goals are different for everyone, so what one person views as enough money saved for a kid, another may balk at. I think it’s pretty awful for someone of high class to turn their nose up at “the poor” and criticize their choice to have children just because they don’t deem them wealthy enough. The ability to be a parent should not be a financial status.
(And the “you” here is an open you, I am not directing that at anyone in particiular in this thread.)
Post # 26
missviolet92 : Your entire attitude demonstrated in this thread is disturbing.
Post # 27
Oh, it’s a right… But it shouldn’t be…
Post # 28
I feel like what you’re asking is two different things.
Everyone has the *right* to have a child if they choose and are able.
But what you’re asking is *should* they have a child if they cannot reasonably support them.
I would hope that anyone who wants children will do what’s in the best interest of their future children.
Post # 29
crazychickenlady : So you think the government should be able to legislate whether or not a woman can conceive and give birth?
Post # 30
knotyet : I mean in an ideal world no. In an ideal world potential parents would have to be mentally healthy, financially stable, and all around good people. But the problem with that is someone else would have to make the judgement call on that and no one should have that right. So we all carry on as best we can. People can have kids whenever and however they want and as a society we try to have things in place to “catch” bad parents and remove the kids if necessary. The system is flawed, and any system would be flawed because it is run by people and people are flawed. So its kind of a pointess debate.
If we are going to talk about being on government assistance I just watched a fascinating documentary on drugs in Australia and some man who is on goverment welfare gets his government check and cashes it and then spends the cash on drugs. I didn’t realize that welfare money could be cashed out and spent like cash. I thought it could only be spent on food in the form of food stamps etc.
Government assistance could be highly regulated to help people who needed it, and discourage people from having it that were just going to abuse it. If government assistance had to be spent in specific ways, like a check directly to your approved landlord for rent, or via food stamps to a grocery store in your area verified by photo id i think government assistance would be a lot less tempting to be on because it wouldn’t just be cash to spend on whatever. But now im super off topic haha. sorry!