Is this a red flag?

posted 2 years ago in Rings
Post # 31
Member
116 posts
Blushing bee
  • Wedding: September 2017

FWIW when I got my custom ring, I asked for a really difficult to cut side stone. Well they eventually called and told me they were having trouble cutting the stones (diamonds) and the ring would be delayed. Apparently they broke a few stones lol! So I told them I would be happy with a white sapphire, or topaz – whatever was soft enough to cut. They were SO horrified by this suggestion – they insisted they would accomplish this, it would just take longer. It was really funny how they got all poetic about the brilliance of diamonds and how it shouldn’t be anything else. I was just thinking – they’re so small what is even the difference??? Anyway, they had to make the stones bigger in order to acheive the shape, and they didn’t charge for the difference. I gave them an easy out (no more wasting $ ruining diamonds) and they didn’t want it. I seriously think jewelers are caught up in “special” stones. Just like people I know in the fashion industry are into designer labels. I wouldn’t take it too much to heart unless you have a conversation with the jeweler about it and he still doesn’t get on board. 

Post # 32
Member
2826 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: November 2017

pinkmacaroon :  Agree, some jewellers are purists..

Op, jeweler said: “ I’m sure you know that they are basically a laboratory engineered ‘non-natural’ product so they are indeed far cheaper than diamonds but are in no way rare or as special as a diamond” and “with (your*) kind of budget I would advise to simply work with diamonds”. 

What exactly in that paragraph is offensive?! He is pointing out that moissanite is a man-made created stone. It is not unique or rare as it is manufactured. All true. He was obviously confirming that you are aware it’s a diamond simulant and know exactly what you’re receiving.  He said it rather tactfully imo! You have requested his help with this project. You are paying for his knowledge and professional advice. It is reasonable to expect that he will give that professional opinion/advice on all aspects of the job including the materials involved. ..Stop looking for problems.   

Post # 33
Member
307 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: February 2016

I know I’m in the minority here, but that wouldn’t stop me from using him if his rings are beautifully crafted and he is awesome in other ways.

Post # 34
Member
2217 posts
Buzzing bee
  • Wedding: October 2019 - Chateau Lake Louise

mrstodd2bee :  i guess what irks me is the claim that diamonds are rare and special. They are patently neither.

Things are worth what people are willing to pay for them. Just because people are willing to pay more for diamonds (thanks DeBeers!) doesn’t objectively make them a superior choice.

I’m troubled by what is either ignorance (never reassuring) or disingenuous claims (outright distressing) about the nature of the materials in question.

Also, I found his reference to her budget gauche; as though only those without the means to afford diamonds might choose something else.

In all it seemed quite insulting to my mind.

Post # 35
Member
3328 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: City, State

anikaof9 :  choose a diffrent shop to do your work. It doesnt matter if your price point means you can get diamond, if its not what you want. Custom work isnt big in the UK  at all. Have you looked at esty. Lots of people sèem to have  good things to say about rings from there. If you know what stone and style you want dont let diamond jeweller out talk you.  

Post # 36
Member
293 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: March 2018

I got my ring (tsavorite garnet) from Holts in Hatton Garden – they specialise in gemstones. I don’t know how much they work with moissanite, but they’re very open to the idea not everyone wants a diamond (they have an ‘engage with colour’ section of coloured gemstone engagment rings) so it might be worth giving them a call if going to London is a feasible option for you? 

I went in, said I was newly engaged and wanted to look at rings ‘engage with colour section please, I don’t want a diamond centre stone’. They respected that and never once suggested I look at their diamond rings and I visited them loads (was lucky enough to work nearby at the time so did lots of lunchtimes).

Post # 39
Member
2826 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: November 2017

teamroro :  well…  diamonds are natural; each one unique, “special” enough that cz and moissanite were both created to try to imitate them…

I agree that things are worth what people are willing to pay for them. Just because people are willing to pay more for them,  doesn’t objectively make moissanite (thanks C&C “starborn” advertising!) a superior choice to cz either …see how that works;-)

As far as referencing budget, of course a jeweler will do that.  Most who choose a simulant, do so because of cost.  OP has said that’d a large part of why she wants a center moissanite. ..

Op, You like the jewellers work. It’s not easy to find excellent workmanship.   You’re ok with melee diamonds. So simply tell him directly that you prefer not to use a genuine diamond for the center. You’ll be using a moissanite.  End of story, .convo over. 

Post # 40
Member
68 posts
Worker bee

It seems like you’ve already decided to go with an online jeweller instead but I just wanted to add that I don’t think it’s a red flag. Jewellers are often wary of what they don’t know about because they might not be sure if it will turn out well, and feel that the stones they’ve worked with for many years are the “best”. They usually take pride in their work and want to make sure they produce the best product, so they might be understandably hesitant to use something they are not familiar with.

Just to share my experience: I had my moissanite ring custom-made by a local jeweller. I considered doing it online but I decided I really preferred getting it done at a place where I could easily go get things modified (e.g. if I wanted the finished product filed down in a certain place or modified slightly, I could just bring it back myself instead of dealing with online shipping back and forth).

Anyways, I actually specifically picked a jeweller who dealt a lot with moissanites. However, they had always used the C&C Forever One round brilliant, and were not familiar with the new H&A cut (and did not know the difference). I honestly didn’t hold this against them because I don’t expect them to know everything. I wanted a 3-stone ring, however C&C do not make H&A-cut moissanites in the smaller size I wanted for the sidestones. As a result, I decided to source my moissanites on my own online from MoissaniteCo.com and bring them in to the jeweller to get them set. (I liked the higher crown of he H&A stones, and wanted all three stones to match.)

My jeweller strongly discouraged me from doing this. They were very skeptical about the quality of non-C&C stones and highly recommended that I just get the regular F1 (non-H&A) for the sidestones. They were nice about it though and explained their reasoning (apparently in the past a client had brought in her own non-C&C moissanites and they were much more yellow than the F1). But even after I sent them a video of the stones they were skeptical and said that it could be difficult to tell if a stone is yellow from a video due to different lighting etc. However, I had done my research and I knew it would look great so I was firm on wanting it done this way. After I insisted, they were fine with doing it my way (although they did charge me ~$100 extra for me bringing in my own stones, which I was ok with). Throughout the whole process they were still very professional and polite, even though they disagreed with my choice. (And btw, once they saw the stones in person they absolutely agreed with me that they looked fantastic!)

Anyways, I know my situation is not the exact same as yours but my point is, I don’t hold it against a jeweller for not being totally familiar with other stones they have never worked with in the past. If they still put up a protest after you firmly state your preference, then forget it. But if they remain polite and professional, no reason not to go with them if you love their work.

Btw, although I disagree with that email you received (I don’t think there is anything rare or special about diamonds compared to other gemstones–the whole idea that they are more “special/rare” is PURELY a marketing gimmick), I do not find it to be that rude. Just unknowledgeable about moissanites (but since diamonds are so much more popular, I find this to be forgiveable). The tone of the email was similar to the one my jeweller sent me–it’s easy to find it “rude” because they are unknowledgeable yet treat YOU like you’re the unknowledgeable one (when it’s the complete opposite). However if you take a step back, the email is still quite professional and simply them advising you on their opinion (which even though it’s wrong, I understand where they’re coming from).

Just my two cents!

Post # 41
Member
68 posts
Worker bee

mrstodd2bee :  Responding to your comments from above: “diamonds are natural; each one unique”; “Just because people are willing to pay more for them,  doesn’t objectively make moissanite (thanks C&C “starborn” advertising!) a superior choice to cz either …see how that works;-)”

First of all, I would absolutely say moissanite is far superior to CZ, and this is completely objective based on the stone’s physical properties. Really can’t dispute the fact that moissanite absolutely lasts longer than CZ (which looks great initially but turns dull/cloudy over time).

Second of all, you can technically say all stones are “unique” because no stone is exactly identical to another one. Doesn’t matter if it’s natural or lab-created. And let’s be real, people do not exactly choose diamonds based on their “unique-ness”. Otherwise everyone would be going for a diamond with natural inclusions and slight colour that make it different from all the other diamonds out there. Instead, people pay big money for diamonds that look identical to the gold standard (colourless, free of inclusions, etc). Nothing unique about that. I also don’t get the obsession of “natural = special”. Diamonds are not rare (except for the super top-end multi-million dollar fancy diamonds)–they are super plentiful in the earth and that’s why resale value of diamond rings is terrible. Lab-created stone are far more special to me because they reflect some truly amazing science & technology (vs. a natural stone coming from dirty mining practices). We can agree to disagree on that point of course, but my point is what makes something “special” depends on what someone values. “Natural” does not automatically mean “special”, especially when it comes to diamonds because their “rarity” is simply not real (the idea that they are rare is a fraud completely manufactured by big corporations driven by greed–not something I want to support). Certainly there are natural stones that I do agree are “rare/special” (e.g. natural alexandrites showing dramatic colour-change which are legitimately rare), but diamonds are most certainly NOT one of them.

 

Post # 42
Member
2826 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: November 2017

cjk88 :  No surprise that you believe your moissanite is “far superior” to CZ.   It should be no surprise that the original ie genuine diamonds, are valued/coveted/regarded as “far superior” to any imitation/copy/knock-off/ simulant, such as moissanite or cz… Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery after all.     Nothing wrong with budget friendly simulants, more sparkles all around…

 

Post # 43
Member
68 posts
Worker bee

mrstodd2bee :  Umm, I’m calling it superior to CZ based on its actual physical properties–there is nothing subjective about it. CZ is not as hard or durable and will not last a lifetime, unlike other gemstones. Of course diamond definitely beats all with a hardness of 10, but I am fine with moissanite’s lower hardness when it is still more than enough for daily wear.

Just to clarify, I have no problem with people wanting diamonds instead; after all, that has been the standard for engagement rings for decades so it’s understandable. And of course I know that’s why, in general, people prefer diamonds (which is also why it has such a ridiculous markup). However, what I take issue with is when people (including OP’s jeweller) start claiming that diamonds are soooo “rare and special”.

If you like diamonds for the hardness/durability or the look/sparkle, or even because it’s the “traditional e-ring stone”–sure, that’s fine. But to start saying it’s so amazing because of how rare it is? I really find that so silly when it is so far from the truth! It is more ridiculous when jewellers start parroting that because they really should know better, and it bugs me that they are leading tons of customers to believe their diamond will keep its value (or increase in value) when the truth is, they would be lucky to get even half of what they paid for back. That’s the one issue I have with the email OP’s jeweller sent (basically I agree with teamroro). Apart from that, the email is not really a big deal, IMO. But even so, as I mentioned, if I were OP I would still go with them if I adored their work and they are happy to work with moissanite if she insists.

Post # 44
Member
2826 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: November 2017

cjk88 :  those with cz *could* argue that their cz is superior to moissanite based on it’s cut, (it’s not splintery like moissanite), lack of rainbowy stain (as some moiss gets) and doesn’t have the “ridiculous” markup moissanite has….Again, see how that works? 😉

In any event,  genuine diamonds are obviously “special” enough that both moissanite and cz were created/are manufactured just to imitate them! Good news for those such as yourself who are ok with having a simulant and can have a large diamond-like look but at a fraction of the cost…. I agree with you that I would stick with the jeweler also.

Op, let us know how it goes. If you don’t go with the local jeweler, many say David Klass does very nice work also.

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